Hilde Ban Discussion

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Should Hilde Full Ring RO Combos = Banned?

not the right place but what the hell.

After an aerial C2AA,
C2BB tech traps in all directions

After 2A+B,
33K tech traps left, forward, normal,
6A+B techs all but left/right
3BA tech traps all but left/right
9K techs Right/normal/back

After 3BA,
33K traps forward/left
6A+B traps all but left/right
11B traps all but left/right and if next to a wall guarantees another 3BA

After an Aerial 6A+K, 3BA
33K traps all directions

after a 66A+B, 2A+B
33K techs all directions if close will miss right techs if far.

after 6B+K,
66A+B techs all but left/right (requires a delay)

after BT B+K
BT 2B tech traps all directions

After 6A+B,
33K traps all directions

After 1KK (CH on 2nd K)
33K traps all directions,
3BA traps all but left/right
6A+B traps all but left/right

After 8K
C2BB and C3B trap all directions

I'm gonna stop there before people's brains melt
 
Should Hilde Full Ring RO Combos = Banned?

Runis said:
not the right place but what the hell.

After an aerial C2AA,
C2BB tech traps in all directions

After 2A+B,
33K tech traps left, forward, normal,
6A+B techs all but left/right
3BA tech traps all but left/right
9K techs Right/normal/back

After 3BA,
33K traps forward/left
6A+B traps all but left/right
11B traps all but left/right and if next to a wall guarantees another 3BA

After an Aerial 6A+K, 3BA
33K traps all directions

after a 66A+B, 2A+B
33K techs all directions if close will miss right techs if far.

after 6B+K,
66A+B techs all but left/right (requires a delay)

after BT B+K
BT 2B tech traps all directions

After 6A+B,
33K traps all directions

After 1KK (CH on 2nd K)
33K traps all directions,
3BA traps all but left/right
6A+B traps all but left/right

After 8K
C2BB and C3B trap all directions

I'm gonna stop there before people's brains melt
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Ahh.. this is why I read the forums.
 
Should Hilde Full Ring RO Combos = Banned?

Artilust said:
lol @"how can you enforce it"

Same way they enforced Marvel2 infinite glitches and 100% -ISM crap in Alpha 3. You do it at a tourney and you get disqualified. Its quite simple. Win because you are good not because you have the ability to exploit some wildly good strategy that makes old fashion winning by KO or being the overall better player obsolete.
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lol, what the fuck is this scrub talk? infinites, in either mvc2 or alpha 3 or ANY of capcom's games have never been banned. the only thing banned in mvc2 is all-same-characters teams (since the arcade version doesn't allow it) and the gambit game freeze glitch (which is pretty deliberate to setup). anything else is fair game and if you get hit by infinites people will count the hits and even sometimes cheer as you're getting your shit ruined, depending on how hype the match is.

so yeah stop with this scrubby ban talk and learn to play the game like anyone who isn't shit does.
 
Should Hilde Full Ring RO Combos = Banned?

I'm not sure that's something to be proud of. Capcom players have a very disturbing "all our games have always been broke, so why should anyone else have the right to bitch?" mentality.
 
Should Hilde Full Ring RO Combos = Banned?

i don't see why people are saying "this is broke, we must ban it!"
NamDai can at ANY TIME patch out anything which is broken, which they did to Cass 66B+K Bouncing, :4 just frames and Ivy infinate. If it's so broke, complain to NamDai and if they patch it out, it's broken. if not, it's quite possibly intended or they don't find it broken enough to warrant a patch.
 
Should Hilde Full Ring RO Combos = Banned?

page said:
I'm not sure that's something to be proud of. Capcom players have a very disturbing "all our games have always been broke, so why should anyone else have the right to bitch?" mentality.
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(Trivia: Actually, very few Capcom games are "broke", the only ones I can think of being mostly restrained to the Vs. series with the exception of Alpha 3, which even tho had infinites, wasn't as broke as it was boring since the infinites took fucking forever to kill someone. Every other Capcom games I've played on a competitive level had a stream of high level characters that consistently won tournaments, most of those games having between 3 to as much as 12 useable characters.)

Banning should always, ALWAYS, be a last resort thing and have a very specific set mechanism put in place to work. So far, neither Hilde's combo, the SW characters or Algol fit in anything that breaks the game in any way.

Criteria of a Ban

A ban must be enforceable, discrete, and warranted.
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This is straight from Sirlin's PtW article. Enforceable is simple, and in this case, cannot be applied. How are you going to enforce "not using a combo" and how are you going to even define what "using that combo" is? What if I use C3B and only keep the combo going for a single hit afterwards, but still ring out? What about getting the ringout through the first hit only? Should we ban the move alltogether or just the combo? What if I just omit a part and replace it by another that might or might not ringout? How would you go ahead and define that?

The ban is not warranted. Does it give Hilde an advantage? Yes, it does. Is that advantage unsurmountable and unfair? No, it's not. Can it be dealt with through conventional, game abiding means? Yes, absolutely. Hence, it's not warranted.

Once again, banning things should be a last resort to when things become degenerate. Hilde is not dominating every tournaments there is out there and she doesn't have straight 7-3 or 6-4 or even 5-5 matchups. She can be countered and banning one of the few things that make her viable is pretty much proving that we, as a community, are being cuddled and mentored by people who would rather not learn how to deal with said things than better themselves, as well as their community, and create a deeper and more enjoyable experience for the players.

Games with a high amount of bans do not thrive, they die out. Remember that.
 
Should Hilde Full Ring RO Combos = Banned?

Eh, I'd like some examples of games that die because of bans.

Keep in mind, I'm not arguing in favour of a Hilde RO combo ban. I just think it's silly to assume that bans are bad. Outside of Capcom fighting games they happen, in one form or another, all the time. It's slightly different for many of them since they have the luxury of direct community support (through mods and Western devs that actually listen and respond to fans directly), and so they get things that are broken or retarded fixed. So it's not a lingering issue.

And while very few Capcom games are completely broken, it's not at all uncommon for them to be pretty much one- or two-trick ponies with very restrictive character tiers.

I'm not really interested in another playing to win discussion. I've been a part of competitive communities for a very long time and that stuff has never been an issue. Sirlin has a very narrow viewpoint, and he's very opinionated. Whatever, that's fine; he's also not the alpha and omega of discussions about competitive gaming.
 
Should Hilde Full Ring RO Combos = Banned?

Except things that initially seem overpowered also tend to have counters later because people actually work on dealing with the shit instead of banning early on. The main problem is how fast things here were banned with very little evidence (read- tournaments).
 
Should Hilde Full Ring RO Combos = Banned?

Ceirnian said:
Except things that initially seem overpowered also tend to have counters later because people actually work on dealing with the shit instead of banning early on. The main problem is how fast things here were banned with very little evidence (read- tournaments).
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This, it tends to be true.

@Boring Ryu.
It's actually extremely easy to enforce a ban on a combo. They use it, they forfeit a round/eat a free combo from the opponent/get DQd. Not saying that should be the case with this, but it's very possible to define a combo and prevent it. Banning repetitions on an infinite, that's trickier, but also possible.
 
Should Hilde Full Ring RO Combos = Banned?

Runis said:
i don't see why people are saying "this is broke, we must ban it!"
NamDai can at ANY TIME patch out anything which is broken, which they did to Cass 66B+K Bouncing, :4 just frames and Ivy infinate. If it's so broke, complain to NamDai and if they patch it out, it's broken. if not, it's quite possibly intended or they don't find it broken enough to warrant a patch.
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Cassandra's attacks were far from broke. There was nothing broken about 66B+K bouncing and there is nothing broken about 66A+B:4 hitting people in the air. I don't mind them being nerfed, because that means less tier whores will use her. Seriously though they were not broke by any means.
 
Should Hilde Full Ring RO Combos = Banned?

Ceirnian said:
Except things that initially seem overpowered also tend to have counters later because people actually work on dealing with the shit instead of banning early on. The main problem is how fast things here were banned with very little evidence (read- tournaments).
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If people start just jumping and taking the relatively little damage that C3B will do to airborne opponents, then this is true.

I still hate C2A like hell btw; but playing smart and safe actually makes Hilde beatable. It's just a more complex version of the phrase: "Use lows and mids to beat Yoda". You will not be popping out the unsafe stuff against Hilde since that would just make you lose the game.
 
Should Hilde Full Ring RO Combos = Banned?

Sora said:
If people start just jumping and taking the relatively little damage that C3B will do to airborne opponents, then this is true.

I still hate C2A like hell btw; but playing smart and safe actually makes Hilde beatable. It's just a more complex version of the phrase: "Use lows and mids to beat Yoda". You will not be popping out the unsafe stuff against Hilde since that would just make you lose the game.
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You mean C3A, the tech crouch / auto gi a/b high and mid / advantage on frame / leads into ringout combo attack.
 
Should Hilde Full Ring RO Combos = Banned?

@Impending_Doom: I meant unintended or broken. not just broken. Cass 66B+K bounce was unintended. The fact there has not been any patch to alter complaints about characters, which there have been ALOT, says much about what NamDai believe is broken or unintended. Doom combo was fairly well known well before the 1.03 patch. They didn't change it because it's either intentional, or they saw that it was an inventive way to use something they implemented but didn't think it broke the game.
 
Should Hilde Full Ring RO Combos = Banned?

Contrary to what ppl my think, I can live with the RO combo. but in time, people will deal with it.
 
Should Hilde Full Ring RO Combos = Banned?

You know what, fine. I'll do all the strings of the doom combo, and give you a bunch of miniscule chances to escape it each time.

Oh, you didn't escape it? I'm ejected from the tournament because I did the doom combo and YOU were the one who failed to escape the few chances that I gave you. Since I gave you chances, it's not ACTUALLY the doom combo, meaning that you lost due to differences in skill. But you, not knowing I actually changed it up to give you chances to escape, still believe I performed the doom combo, and I'm ejected.

Fair? Unfair?

NO. IT'S STUPID. Fail.
 
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