How will the new timeline diverge from the old?

DanteSC3

[14] Master
I posted about the Libra of Soul battle in the general discussion thread, but I mostly just see it as Cassandra missing her mark and finding the Conduit instead of Cassandra, which might indicate she can only hone in on high power level folks. She was drawn to the sword and shield that Cassandra took, for example.

I feel like it’s a shame that Unbreakable Soul is potentially so relevant, while the exposure level of that is so incredibly low. Delivering story elements through a mobile phone gacha game is beyond silly, and canceling it before the indicator that it would be relevant is even doubly more so. Broken Destiny, however, was always touted as a non-canon silly adventure, so I don’t know why that would get a push either.

Random curiosity though, @DYY, was there a second mission for your fight with Astral Chaos Cassandra in Libra of Soul? I had a level 67 and a level 80 quest marker, and the level 67 one was greyed out and inaccessible, saying I didn’t meet the prerequisites. I’ve never seen that error before in Libra of Soul. The level 80 one proceeded as normal, and then the level 67 one disappeared.
 

DYY

[09] Warrior
I posted about the Libra of Soul battle in the general discussion thread, but I mostly just see it as Cassandra missing her mark and finding the Conduit instead of Cassandra, which might indicate she can only hone in on high power level folks. She was drawn to the sword and shield that Cassandra took, for example.

I feel like it’s a shame that Unbreakable Soul is potentially so relevant, while the exposure level of that is so incredibly low. Delivering story elements through a mobile phone gacha game is beyond silly, and canceling it before the indicator that it would be relevant is even doubly more so. Broken Destiny, however, was always touted as a non-canon silly adventure, so I don’t know why that would get a push either.

Random curiosity though, @DYY, was there a second mission for your fight with Astral Chaos Cassandra in Libra of Soul? I had a level 67 and a level 80 quest marker, and the level 67 one was greyed out and inaccessible, saying I didn’t meet the prerequisites. I’ve never seen that error before in Libra of Soul. The level 80 one proceeded as normal, and then the level 67 one disappeared.
I have both PS4 and Steam version of the game. I keep both games up to date and I did grind titles on both. I can confirm I saw the glitch quest on both versions.
 

DanteSC3

[14] Master
Which may have contributed to their decision to reboot the games. Which would in turn further explain their decision to make the new timeline turn out differently, because otherwise they'd just have to reboot the franchise again in a few games. :) I do think it's quite possible that elder Cassandra is the means by which the swords (and I do wonder if by SCVII we will discover if they have fused into a new entity, be it Night Terror or Abyss or some other variation of an astral chaos Big Bad) mean to orchestrate a different chain of events whereby they never get rejected/trapped by Pyrrha and Patroklos. That could also ironically be the change that provides the Alexandra family with a means of escape from the cruel, insistent fate.
Granted this is pure speculation, but Viola had an extra weapon that didn't get used, in the same slot as the other "story mode hidden" weapons, which looked an awful lot like the Astral Chaos. I believe she was going to be the link back to the Astral Chaos, should that link have been broken with the "destruction" of the Soul swords, meaning that the resolution of the Raphael/Viola/Z.W.E.I. story may very well have ended with Amy being broken from Azwel's control, and her spell orb reforging the link back to the Astral Chaos as a result, and the swords returned once more. Even if this wasn't the plan, such a hamfisted event is definitely within the realm of possibility for a SoulCalibur story, and I'd think you'd agree. There is always a way.

As to Cassie offing her sister, I just don't see that happening in this story. Killing her sister to spare her a worse fate just seems a little more nihilistic than the writers of this particular story are likely to embrace. I will say this much: no matter how much of the story of the next couple of games is integration of threads from previous games, and how much is new territory, it'll be interesting to see how Algol will be worked into things.
Well that was just me having a dark mood moment while I was posting, to keep the darkness and tragedy angle consistent. Another possibility, though, is that Cassandra could act as a surrogate mother, that would be another way to ensure that Pyrrha is not cursed. Whether or not Sophitia and Rothion would be okay with that, however, would be another story. It's not like Cassandra is the type to settle down with a boyfriend, let alone a husband/kids.

Algol, though, I just expect him to rise as before and be confronted, with more personalized story details this time, with there only being one true canon. I could see some kind of group effort to take him down, Zasalamel binding him, Sophitia/Talim(/Kamikirimusi) soothing his soul, and Siegfried/Hilde setting him free, for example. Maybe not that exactly, maybe more, maybe less involvement, but having it be a big damn heroes moment would be awesome.

*Interestingly, Amy and Cassandra have come out of their Soul Chronicles being more dynamic than the rest of the cast as well, in my opinion. It makes sense, as the writers are clearly putting a bit more effort into the DLC storylines than the base game ones (kinda have to if they want to keep interest and hype up the DLC), but it is nice to see two characters were previously so glaringly one-note get some nice semi-development and characterisation.
While I am also happy to see them getting some long-deserved respect, their stories have always been known. I'm always shocked to see how many people are taken aback by these stories, but I guess that's more a reality check on my part that not everyone can be bothered to read, and would prefer it if it were integrated into the gameplay. Don't get me wrong, I would love that too, but I definitely can and will read to get the full stories from all the games, extra materials, and so on. I would have played the hell out of Unbreakable Soul if I had known it was story relevant.

We didn't say her motivation was weak, neither narratively nor in terms of quality. We said the shift in her motivation from prior to encountering her future self (i.e. "generally watch out for Sophitia") to after encountering her future self (i.e. "watch out for Sophitia, especially if a certain series of events begins playing out") is subtle.

In particular, it's subtle in contrast to Zasalamel's shift from a self-centered goal of ending his own existence to a species-centered goal of helping humanity achieve its potential.
More or less this, yes. I downplay Zasalamel's a bit more than you do, but Cassandra's motivations change is really minor, unless she takes some sort of drastic action to achieve her goal with that extra bit of motivational post. As if she's contemplating that surrogate mother idea I mentioned above, possibly. (I'm not completely serious that they would actually do this, but it's a novel idea.)

Sophitia never wielded it, though. After Xianghua, it went to Siegfried, then to Patrokolos.
Add one more level of suffering for Sophitia, all this work, and isn't even suited for the sword? No justice, no integrity...

Despite Rusted's decision to highlight the name of "Unbreakable Soul" in red, I think what he was really intending our attention be called to from that passage is "carve a new future."
Maybe, and such a line was also in Zasalamel's dialogue. Though I still do reserve the right to believe they're just cheekily identifying this game's reboot status. I will believe there will be a radical change when the time comes, but for now, they haven't yet given me enough to believe in the "new timeline" at all. I'm not saying there hasn't been messages sent back in time or a literal time traveler, because there have, but they haven't yet shown their timeline model.

Like, let's say, for the sake of argument, that Cassandra's epilogue-prologue took place on an entirely different Soul Chronicle timeline menu, and/or, as I was expecting the time of the trailer reveal, Astral Chaos Cassandra got more intervention quests in some or all of the other characters' stories (and this would have been ample justification for the long wait, getting all of that set up). That would have been enough evidence for me to believe that we truly are on a new timeline where history will be altered. It didn't happen yet, still not enough has happened yet, to convince me. I stand by myself.

The "New Legends of Project Soul" book (which, as of yesterday, I've broken down and finally ordered my own physical copy of rather than just relying on scans) has it that Sophitia knocked Cassandra out, and Cass then woke up in time to see Sophitia's body before being dragged into the Astral Chaos.
Yay more people owning this fantastic book! But you're right, I just checked it, so they did meet, Cassandra lost, and was knocked out, then she woke up and saw Sophitia before getting sucked away. My mind blanked on her actually establishing contact first, I was stuck on the she was almost there and then got warped away before she could do anything part.

Why would Cass need to kill Sophie to help the world, though? Like Rusted pointed out, Cassie's only incentive to change anything is for helping her family. For the world at large, things ultimately played out pretty well in the original timeline.
I addressed this above, but my alternative plan for Cassandra to become a surrogate mother seems reasonable, if they really want to diverge.
 

DYY

[09] Warrior
Is there anyway to datamine the old unbreakable souls app? I assume the dialogues or whatever would be intact... granted the servers don’t exist anymore.
 

ElegantRaven

[09] Warrior
While I am also happy to see them getting some long-deserved respect, their stories have always been known. I'm always shocked to see how many people are taken aback by these stories, but I guess that's more a reality check on my part that not everyone can be bothered to read, and would prefer it if it were integrated into the gameplay. Don't get me wrong, I would love that too, but I definitely can and will read to get the full stories from all the games, extra materials, and so on. I would have played the hell out of Unbreakable Soul if I had known it was story relevant.
Well, okay, fair, but at the end of the day, this is a fighting game series which, before SC6, never tried to place a heavy emphasis on story nor ever really cared about the quality of its story either. Most people aren't going to be bothered to read up on the OG timeline lore because, quite frankly, it's nothing special and there's very little that stands out about it in any way. Cassandra and Amy, like every other character, have a few paragraphs in every game summarising whatever journey of sorts they take, but the extent to which we see the complexities and depth of their personalities and inner conflicts was never nearly as known as SC6 makes it to be. Cassandra especially was literally only "I want to save Sophitia" as a character with very little to her other than that, except for the bubbly personality itself. All of this is still present in her incarnation 6, but the writers clearly tried to add one or two more layers onto her in order to make her more engaging and likeable to the audience. I've always liked Cassandra for who she is; a fighting game character with a fun style and an enjoyable personality, but never in the lore of the previous games has her personality and inner turmoil been explored as it was in her Soul Chronicle in SC6. It's still not anything special, but it's better than whatever few little write-ups the previous games have given us.
 

TresDias

[06] Combatant
Algol, though, I just expect him to rise as before and be confronted, with more personalized story details this time, with there only being one true canon. I could see some kind of group effort to take him down, Zasalamel binding him, Sophitia/Talim(/Kamikirimusi) soothing his soul, and Siegfried/Hilde setting him free, for example. Maybe not that exactly, maybe more, maybe less involvement, but having it be a big damn heroes moment would be awesome.
As cool as it is picturing that Avengers vs. Thanos-esque battle, I mostly hope they just move on from Algol and let his brief attempt at possessing The Conduit be the whole of his involvement this go round.

... Unless they can do something properly worthwhile with him. Perhaps by building into a larger narrative off Sophitia's memorable SCIV ending they could turn his inclusion into something that resonates with the other characters and their stories.

Dante said:
I would have played the hell out of Unbreakable Soul if I had known it was story relevant.
Hell, I would have played the hell out of it regardless if I'd had a phone capable of it at the time.

Dante said:
Add one more level of suffering for Sophitia, all this work, and isn't even suited for the sword? No justice, no integrity...
No core values?


Dante said:
I will believe there will be a radical change when the time comes, but for now, they haven't yet given me enough to believe in the "new timeline" at all. I'm not saying there hasn't been messages sent back in time or a literal time traveler, because there have, but they haven't yet shown their timeline model.

Like, let's say, for the sake of argument, that Cassandra's epilogue-prologue took place on an entirely different Soul Chronicle timeline menu, and/or, as I was expecting the time of the trailer reveal, Astral Chaos Cassandra got more intervention quests in some or all of the other characters' stories (and this would have been ample justification for the long wait, getting all of that set up). That would have been enough evidence for me to believe that we truly are on a new timeline where history will be altered. It didn't happen yet, still not enough has happened yet, to convince me. I stand by myself.
For clarity's sake, when you say "a new timeline where history will be altered" is it the latrer half of this description you're focused on?

In the hope of being more clear myself, what I mean when I ask this is that one could accept we're looking at a new timeline without necessarily anticipating that it will be one to follow a notably distinct history from what we've seen before. Is that then where you are?

Because for me, "new timeline" applies if so much as a speck of dust lands a millimeter off from where it originally did. So in comparison to that, Zasalamel's change is like a tidal wave.

Is there anyway to datamine the old unbreakable souls app? I assume the dialogues or whatever would be intact... granted the servers don’t exist anymore.
Unfortunately, it looks like there isn't a way.

Someone here on 8WayRun even offered $300 to anyone who could help them acquire the game, but came up empty:

 
Last edited:

DanteSC3

[14] Master
For clarity's sake, when you say "a new timeline where history will be altered" is it the latter half of this description you're focused on?

In the hope of being more clear myself, what I mean when I ask this is that one could accept we're looking at a new timeline without necessarily anticipating that it will be one to follow a notably distinct history from what we've seen before. Is that then where you are?

Because for me, "new timeline" applies if so much as a different speck of dust lands a millimeter off from where it originally did. So in comparison to that, Zasalamel's change is like a tidal wave.
Yes, that's been my hangup on the terminology from the very beginning. The nature of a "new timeline" implies that things will go differently this time, and, so far, they have shown that things will not go differently. I am very keen on time travel stories, and so I make the distinction that someone going back in time and changing some key event (or even something small, like a butterfly effect) that changes the outcome of the future, then that would take us into what could be considered a "new timeline", but that hasn't happened yet.

SoulCalibur VI traveled back in time, certainly, and we have our isolated incidents in Zasalamel and Cassandra having received messages from the future, but the narrative events for everything are still playing out exactly as before, for now. If these interventions have implications and change the events of SoulCalibur VII (which would be SoulCalibur II, SoulCalibur III, and SoulCalibur IV, seemingly, as they all take place in the same year), then we will be in a "new timeline", by my definition. But not before then. Right now, we're just repeating the same events of the previous games, so no "new timeline" has been created, unless you're using the strictest definition of the term, as you've said it, the speck of dust being a millimeter off comparison.
 

Rusted Blade

[11] Champion
We didn't say her motivation was weak, neither narratively nor in terms of quality. We said the shift in her motivation from prior to encountering her future self (i.e. "generally watch out for Sophitia") to after encountering her future self (i.e. "watch out for Sophitia, especially if a certain series of events begins playing out") is subtle.

In particular, it's subtle in contrast to Zasalamel's shift from a self-centered goal of ending his own existence to a species-centered goal of helping humanity achieve its potential.
Well whatever the nomenclature, the fact is that Cassandra is now armed with a (apparently quite detailed?) account of what transpires from that point on, and every motivation to avoid that outcome. I suppose you can argue that Dante's closed causality loops is still, in the strict technical sense, a possibility and this warning can be interpreted as something that was always a part of her story: in other words, Cassandra was always so hyper motivated to protect her sister and intercede on her behalf because she knew what was coming: after-all, the soul chronicle epiprologue does make clear that the showdown with her own future self is the first time she picks up a sword to fight.

But frankly, I just don't buy it: it just doesn't match with the Soulcalibur mythos and thematic priorities of "forging your own path." The idea of people trapped in a fate that cannot be altered, even when people are armed with the kind of foresight that comes with time travel, is a big artistic stand to take, and requires a more subtle story to do right. In other words, I don't think the writers of this series have either the inclination or the wherewithal to try it. This isn't the context where such a story would arise, as a media matter, and the palette of this game is particularly ill-suited to it since, much as the thematics of the series are kind of basic and uninspired, the one thing you can say about them is that they are consistent on one point: personal drive and willpower are the be-all and end-all of human existence. I don't see a developer who has spent years and years and years carving a repetitive story out of vague "can-do" platitudes suddenly reversing course and telling using an extended narrative over several games to create the idea of a timeline that repeats itself perfectly and offers no recourse or possibility of change to characters, even once friggin' time travel comes into the picture.

And that's BEFORE we even look at what the story is expressly telling us in this game already, as with that quote at the end of Cassandra's story. Dante has checked her reasonably analysis at the door as a consequence of her desire to see the uber lore of this game continue and have all the various what-if scenarios rolled into one "cannon" narrative. Personally I think the value in such a story would be more an exercise in OCD than good story-telling, but regardless, I don't think the "close retelling" is going to last into the next game; In fact, I think it's unravelling fast in this game's continuing support content by direct intention of the devs. I do think we will see previous plot beats from SCIII through SCV repeat in future games, but I can't imagine that the story we are being presented with now represents anything other than clear indication that the story is headed in disparate new directions.

Despite Rusted's decision to highlight the name of "Unbreakable Soul" in red, I think what he was really intending our attention be called to from that passage is "carve a new future."
Just so: though I don't think the use of those terms was by any means accidental, but in fact very much on the nose.

I mean, other than the unfortunate fact that the future goes on to allow for "Tekken" to happen ... which I suppose is as bleak as it gets ...
Hahaha, yeah, the people of that fictional universe really do have a lot to complain about. Hyper violence is one thing,
I feel like it’s a shame that Unbreakable Soul is potentially so relevant, while the exposure level of that is so incredibly low. Delivering story elements through a mobile phone gacha game is beyond silly, and canceling it before the indicator that it would be relevant is even doubly more so. Broken Destiny, however, was always touted as a non-canon silly adventure, so I don’t know why that would get a push either.
Well, that's essentially the same as saying they never should have made a mobile game period, because that's pretty much the way these things always play out in that market. Those games used to be made for only a select, limited number of operating systems--having just ahandful of mostly consistent platforms like iOS and Android to develop on is a relatively new development--mostly for Japanese mobile platforms and services. They very often got lost in this fashion, even if they were substantially more popular than Soulcalibur. Fans just recently, after a decade of concerted, organized effort, managed to piece back together Before Crisis, the mobile game entry int he Compilations of Final Fantasy VII sub-franchise--and the story that game was connected to is arguably the single most popular game narrative of all time (certainly up there on the list if nothing else). But of coruse Namco was going to tap that lucrative market that looked like an unending stream of microtransaction gold about six years back. And of course it was happy to lose the the thing mostly to the ether as soon as it stopped being profitable. There's just not much surprising about any of that.

As for BD being a "silly, non-cannon adventure", how is that any different from the vast majority of the plots of every Soulcal game prior to SCV? They're all pretty ridiculous and include plot elements that are hard to take seriously if we put them under a microscope. As for the game being "touted" as somehow more non-cannon than other games, the touting, insofar as I can tell, amounts to fan interpretation (which I've only seen on this forum) that one line early in the game establishes that we are to be giving substantially less credence to this story than the others. I would say that one line (referencing "extended myths" or something to that effect) leaves at least some room for interpretation. Given the difficulties (some would say folly) of trying to decide what is truly cannon in a story like SC's pre-SCV narrative, I would say that it's at least possible that some elements of BD could, in time, be rolled into the new pastiche story. Which could have some consequence as I think it massages some of the same plot points as Unbreakable Soul, vis-a-vis Cassandra.

Even if this wasn't the plan, such a hamfisted event is definitely within the realm of possibility for a SoulCalibur story, and I'd think you'd agree. There is always a way.
Well, let's put it this way: had they decided to make another game in the series and didn't want to do the soft reboot, would they have found a way to just bring the swords back in some oh-so-convenient way that completely erodes any sense of meaning or resolution to the plot of the previous game, same as they did for every other previous game in the series? Yeah, of course. The plot of this series, like all fighters, serves the overriding need to come up with excuses, no matter how clumsy or non-self-consistent, to put the combatants in front of none-another. But that's not what they ultimately decided to do here. I don't know how much of their approach in VI was a desire to preserve the resolution and integrity of the "conclusion" of the story in V (probably very little).

I don't even think the "let's distance ourselves from SCV" motive was as prominent a driver as many people in the western fanbase seem to assume it was. I suspect rather that it had more to do with the fact that they had painted themselves into a corner where they could not, without extremely convoluted cannon, recreate many of the popular characters that they would need to lean on to try to revitalize the franchise, and so a reboot was almost their only option. But I do think SCV was nevertheless conceived of and presented as an actual resolution to the saga (no matter how unrelastic as a practical matter that the story would end there). SCVI's re-tell the story but then let it diverge tactic is clearly PS's attempt to have their cake and eat it too, in that respect.

Well that was just me having a dark mood moment while I was posting, to keep the darkness and tragedy angle consistent. Another possibility, though, is that Cassandra could act as a surrogate mother, that would be another way to ensure that Pyrrha is not cursed. Whether or not Sophitia and Rothion would be okay with that, however, would be another story. It's not like Cassandra is the type to settle down with a boyfriend, let alone a husband/kids.
I don't see how Cassandra being a surrogate mother would really guaruntee much of a change in outcome. Sophitia is still cursed by the fragment and her children are still going to be subject to that curse and the various implications no matter who raises them.

Algol, though, I just expect him to rise as before and be confronted, with more personalized story details this time, with there only being one true canon..
Well, at the end of the day, Algol created Soul Edge and despite the corrupting influence it has on literally everyone else, he has been shown to be able to easily bend it to his will--there's a kind of Sauron/the One Ring aspect to their story in this regard. I know he faced the usual fate of new main villains in fighting games of being demoted to just another fighter in SCV, but I feel that in a story that tries to homogenize all the previous lore together, he would have some major role to play.

Maybe, and such a line was also in Zasalamel's dialogue. Though I still do reserve the right to believe they're just cheekily identifying this game's reboot status.
I mean, they are. And then they expressly say--as explicitly as they can in the words of the narrative itself, almost in fourth-wall breaking fashion, "But she has the ability to change all of this--ooooooh, isn't it interesting where this is likely to go??" The fact that they cheekily integrated it with reference to the other games and Cassandra's specific role within them is just more evidence of them telegraphing what they are doing, not an alternative explanation.

I will believe there will be a radical change when the time comes, but for now, they haven't yet given me enough to believe in the "new timeline" at all. I'm not saying there hasn't been messages sent back in time or a literal time traveler, because there have, but they haven't yet shown their timeline model.
That's because you've got your rose-coloured lore nerd glasses on and are not seeing the forest for the trees. Yes, you can throw up one pedantic "Well there's nothing absolutely violated within the narratives that proves this can't be a closed temporal loop, yadda yadda yadda, see exhibits A, B, and C..." But at the end of the day, the internal dynamics of the plot are just one side of the story here, and you have to turn a blind eye to the context of which this story is marketed and sold, and to the own thematic hints the devs themselves are firing at you with their own narration in order to believe this is all going to play out exactly the same all over again.
 
Last edited:

TresDias

[06] Combatant
Well, that's essentially the same as saying they never should have made a mobile game period, because that's pretty much the way these things always play out in that market.
They shouldn't have.


Rusted said:
Those games used to be made for only a select, limited number of operating systems--having just ahandful of mostly consistent platforms like iOS and Android to develop on is a relatively new development--mostly for Japanese mobile platforms and services. They very often got lost in this fashion, even if they were substantially more popular than Soulcalibur. Fans just recently, after a decade of concerted, organized effort, managed to piece back together Before Crisis, the mobile game entry int he Compilations of Final Fantasy VII sub-franchise--and the story that game was connected to is arguably the single most popular game narrative of all time (certainly up there on the list if nothing else).
And it bears pointing out that we still don't have the authentic "Before Crisis" files. We just have a well-constructed remake put together in RPG Maker.

Rusted said:
As for BD being a "silly, non-cannon adventure", how is that any different from the vast majority of the plots of every Soulcal game prior to SCV? They're all pretty ridiculous and include plot elements that are hard to take seriously if we put them under a microscope. As for the game being "touted" as somehow more non-cannon than other games, the touting, insofar as I can tell, amounts to fan interpretation (which I've only seen on this forum) that one line early in the game establishes that we are to be giving substantially less credence to this story than the others. I would say that one line (referencing "extended myths" or something to that effect) leaves at least some room for interpretation.
"This story is based on obscure fables and does not accurately represent the Soulcalibur history" (emphasis mine) doesn't leave much room for interpretation. =P

At best it means "Some version of some of these events maybe happened, but don't think about any of it too much."

Rusted said:
Well, at the end of the day, Algol created Soul Edge and despite the corrupting influence it has on literally everyone else, he has been shown to be able to easily bend it to his will ...
Algol created Soul Calibur. Soul Edge (i.e. the demon named "Inferno") was born from a sword "bathed in the blood of countless battles" or something like that.
 

Rusted Blade

[11] Champion
They shouldn't have.
Well, but of course they did, because there was money to be made. :)
And it bears pointing out that we still don't have the authentic "Before Crisis" files. We just have a well-constructed remake put together in RPG Maker.
Well, it depends on what you mean by "the files"; the game was recreated with the original assets (which more often than not is what happens with even professional remakes when the games are old enough or were developed on minor platforms); even if the original code for the compiled game existed, it would be useless without the appropriate platform. The situation is comparable for Unbreakable Soul, except no one thought to preserve even the assets, and the platforms involved were a little more modern and universal.
"This story is based on obscure fables and does not accurately represent the Soulcalibur history" (emphasis mine) doesn't leave much room for interpretation. =P

At best it means "Some version of some of these events maybe happened, but don't think about any of it too much."
Yeah, ok, that is pretty express. But to play devil's advocate, I'm still not sure what kind of meaning can be ascribed to saying "this piece of story is really non-binding and not to be taken too seriously as it impacts the larger story of this series....in which events are largely non-binding and not to be taken too seriously." Basically you hit a ceiling on how non-seriously to take things.
Algol created Soul Calibur. Soul Edge (i.e. the demon named "Inferno") was born from a sword "bathed in the blood of countless battles" or something like that.
Oh, that's right, Algol used a purified fragment of Soul Edge as part of the method for creating Soulcalibur or some such? Am I remembering it correctly now?
 

Rusted Blade

[11] Champion
By the way, since we are on the subject, if anybody ever wants to experience a game narrative that actually does completely embrace the nuance of a story of a completely closed causality loop--and one which, while approaching the concept as very tragic and emotionally raw, nevertheless finds a way to make it feel beautiful and not completely bleak, look no further than Wild ARMS: Vth Vanguard. I mean, I kind of just gave away the game there, since its not until the closing minutes of the (quite long and involved) story that the audience even learns that the story represents such a loop, making for a real emotional sucker punch that makes you re-analyze everything you thought you knew about one of the main characters and just stand flabergasted at the scope of their sacrifice and just ho well the plot device in integrated into a complex story, without ever giving away the game until the time for that reveal comes. But I reckon there are very few people who have not played that (criminally underappreciated) game who are likely to at this point, absent being urged to.

Seriously, for those who are used to me grilling Soulcalibur here for its uneven plotting, poor dialogue, and mediocre presentation of its story, it may sounds odd that I'm playing booster for a game in a series as melodramatic as Wild ARMS--and indeed, the presentation is especially camp in the fifth game. But underneath the super anime presentation punctuated by frequent cheerful (indeed, often saccharine) invocation of the "give your all" theme--spouted a little too incessantly by overly positive and virtous main protagonists--there is a genuinely compelling and well constructed sci-fi story that pays off off big time by the end. Of all the many Japanese RPGs I played over the years back when it was a genre I had time for, most of which are pretty interchangeable and vary only somewhat in the details, this is one whose conclusion I still think about to this day, and I just cannot hear the "April Showers" theme without getting at least a tiny bit emotional. Seriously, game story buffs, if you have a means to collect and play this game, give it a look--a true overlooked gem. It's art design and gameplay also still hold up very well, I think.
 

DanteSC3

[14] Master
I don't see how Cassandra being a surrogate mother would really guaruntee much of a change in outcome. Sophitia is still cursed by the fragment and her children are still going to be subject to that curse and the various implications no matter who raises them.
I don’t think you took my meaning of “surrogate mother”. I mean, instead of Sophitia having the children, Rothion gets Cassandra pregnant instead, and Rothion and Sophitia raise them as their own. The children won’t be born with the curse, that way. It’s a dicey alternative, but would nonetheless address the problem.

————————————————————

I feel like the rest of the stuff is just going to have to go into the “agree to disagree” pile for now, right next to my “Grøh is Z.W.E.I.” theory. We will have some answers no later than SoulCalibur VII, maybe possibly some from season two, but I’m thinking not. Aside from a brand new character, no one they could add in the second or even third season could address the future storyline.

I’m not averse to seeing the story change from the original course, they just haven’t convinced me that they’re going to. It doesn’t make sense to me that they would do the research so hard to get the vast majority of SoulCalibur VI correct, in line with the end of SoulBlade to the beginning of SoulCalibur II, and not just the main story, but all the side stories of not only the remaining playable cast but also the more minor nonplayable cast, just to cast it aside for the next game in the series.

I would believe it if everyone’s story was ever so slightly different, or had cause to be different, but the fact of the matter is that they do not. And it makes even less sense to have everyone except for Zasalamel and Cassandra on their original path, invite two new guys, and reboot the story only on those grounds, if the end goal is to dramatically reshape history on a new path. I could be wrong, but I’ll believe it when I see it, and I haven’t seen it yet. They haven’t done enough to convince me otherwise.
 

Rusted Blade

[11] Champion
I don’t think you took my meaning of “surrogate mother”. I mean, instead of Sophitia having the children, Rothion gets Cassandra pregnant instead, and Rothion and Sophitia raise them as their own. The children won’t be born with the curse, that way. It’s a dicey alternative, but would nonetheless address the problem.
Ahhh, I see. Ha, that's way too mature for Soulcalibur. Soulcalibur's idea of "mature" is shoving plump (and ever-expanding) boobies in your face and creating villain designs that look like they are meant to go on the cover of heavy metal albums. Letting your husband swing with your sister so you can raise the child is a little too "Rated C" (for conflicted) for the Japanese and American audiences these games are marketed at. I like your thinking, but it strikes me as about as likely as my "Cassie could dose Sophitia to keep her infertile" notion: just not something I can ever imagine happening in this story.

I would believe it if everyone’s story was ever so slightly different, or had cause to be different, but the fact of the matter is that they do not. And it makes even less sense to have everyone except for Zasalamel and Cassandra on their original path, invite two new guys, and reboot the story only on those grounds, if the end goal is to dramatically reshape history on a new path. I could be wrong, but I’ll believe it when I see it, and I haven’t seen it yet. They haven’t done enough to convince me otherwise.
I still think you're letting yourself be biased by what you'd ideally like to see, such that you are missing them telling you pretty loudly and directly that they are about to flip the script to at least some extent. Buuuut, that's every hyper fan's prerogative. We're all vulnerable to it now and again. :P
 

Rusted Blade

[11] Champion
At least it would take the unusual step of being the first time (of many past occurrences) where there was at least some reasonable explanation for why a female character's bust size spontaneously increased 25% over the previous game. I mean, other than the standing, obvious explanation: "We know our audience and live to pander." :D
 

TresDias

[06] Combatant
I don’t think you took my meaning of “surrogate mother”. I mean, instead of Sophitia having the children, Rothion gets Cassandra pregnant instead, and Rothion and Sophitia raise them as their own. The children won’t be born with the curse, that way. It’s a dicey alternative, but would nonetheless address the problem.
Sounds like a win-win for Rothion at any rate!

Dante said:
I’m not averse to seeing the story change from the original course, they just haven’t convinced me that they’re going to. It doesn’t make sense to me that they would do the research so hard to get the vast majority of SoulCalibur VI correct, in line with the end of SoulBlade to the beginning of SoulCalibur II, and not just the main story, but all the side stories of not only the remaining playable cast but also the more minor nonplayable cast, just to cast it aside for the next game in the series.
I can sincerely see several reasons:

- First and foremost, caring about the material/wanting it to be quality

- Wanting to honor the original material by giving it a more fully realized depiction

- Recognizing that the premise of a divergence calls for
a) the two timelines being the same up to a particular point, and that, as such,
b) the impact of an actual change wouldn't be felt without significant attention given to preserving the original timeline details until a point of divergence

The player had to earn this bombshell. It's only after sloughing through pretty much every other bit of story content the game has to offer that Zasalamel's final Libra of Soul and Soul Chronicle appearances come along -- and let me tell you something, I was going "Hooooolyyyyy shiiiiit." I wouldn't have had that reaction without the approach they took to the timeline.
 

DanteSC3

[14] Master
I mean sure, yeah, I get all that, but it still seems like they’d want to keep that train rolling to pay the same respects to the rest of the series, to me. And they may very well still do it, if they keep everything still happening with extra side stuff happening, and the real diverging point comes at the end of SoulCalibur IV, involving Algol in some way. Or if the things I think might happen, that SoulCalibur V events will occur in 1590-1591 or even 1592, so as to address those things but without a time skip, or even to babystep through the time skip, arguably the way it should have happened in the first place, there are many different possibilities. I’m excited for whatever happens, but I’m not dedicating myself to any particular path just yet.
 

Dissidia

Premium Member
I just hope if they move in the direction of the SCV era, that they keep those characters out of SCVI. Save them for a future game where the needle has moved enough on the story.

Though honestly I would hope that we see the characters of SCV but never enough to have them play big roles in the story or be playable. Like how Pat and Pyrrha were in SC3 endings via sleeping in their room.