How will the new timeline diverge from the old?

TresDias

[04] Fighter
@Rusted Blade
Slight correction: Zas does get mentioned a little bit, though not with regard to his status or whereabouts following the separation of the swords at the end of SCIII. We know he was involved in the events of SCIV, of course, but what became of him then goes unsaid.

Abyss isn't mentioned at all, though.

Since Night Terror apparently exists, perhaps the circumstances of its creation played out at some point -- either without Zasalamel's death if it happened at the Lost Cathedral, or with his death if it happened inside the Astral Chaos atop the Tower of Remembrance. The latter possibility may explain why Zas isn't around for SCVI and why Night Terror was wandering about the Astral Chaos?

As for whose ending was canon -- well, I'd have to say no one's. lol Maybe @DanteSC3 has picked up on something I missed, but there was basically nothing from any of the endings that fits what went down at the Lost Cathedral.

The swords were separated by Zasalamel; Nightmare and Siegfried fought; the Lost Cathedral was decimated; Algol absorbed power from their clash, then raised his Tower of Remembrance -- and that's pretty much it.

The closest to being canon for any of them, I suppose, is Tira's (where she kidnaps Pyrrha), but even that doesn't happen precisely the same way.
 
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Rusted Blade

[07] Duelist
@Rusted Blade
Slight correction: Zas does get mentioned a little bit, though not with regard to his status or whereabouts following the separation of the swords at the end of SCIII. We know he was involved in the events of SCIV, of course, but what became of him then goes unsaid.

Abyss isn't mentioned at all, though.

As for whose ending was canon -- well, I'd have to say no one's. lol Maybe @DanteSC3 has picked up on something I missed, but there was basically nothing from any of the endings that fits what went down at the Lost Cathedral.

The swords were separated by Zasalamel; Nightmare and Siegfried fought; the Lost Cathedral was decimated; Algol absorbed power from their clash, then raised his Tower of Remembrance -- and that's pretty much it.

The closest to being canon for any of them, I suppose, is Tira's (where she kidnaps Pyrrha), but even that doesn't happen precisely the same way.
Just to be clear, when you say "nothing from any of the endings that fits what went down at the Lost Cathedral.", you mean as the showdown at the cathedral is described in SCIV's content?
 
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TresDias

[04] Fighter
Correct, yeah.

By the way, I edited some comments about Night Terror into my post that you may be able to derive something useful from or turn into something useful for the rest of us ... speculation though it is.
 

DanteSC3

[14] Master
Technically, everyone's story in SoulCalibur III works, considering that the main events happen no matter who gets chosen. It would be contingent upon taking the Olcadan path, however, because not doing so means that you will end up fighting Siegfried or Nightmare, which doesn't happen. They fight each other, then Zasalamel does his thing, Night Terror is born (which is also contingent upon taking the Olcadan path), and I suppose the next part, though mostly unexplained, would end up with Night Terror being sealed away into the Astral Chaos, perhaps by Zasalamel, perhaps by Algol, that part's pretty grey, since technically, if Night Terror appears, then he destroys Zasalamel as his first action, but Zasalamel lives, so unless he reincarnated into the same exact body for SoulCalibur IV, that doesn't really work. Abyss not being mentioned since, to me, kinda makes Abyss a what-if scenario, that didn't actually happen, is how I always took it, even back in SoulCalibur IV days.

As far as endings go, most of them are silly or involve the swords, so they can't be canon, but Tira taking Pyrrha would be, though, as was said, it's not exactly the way it is shown. The most amusing of all the endings, though, for me, is Raphael's bad ending, where, for some reason, Kilik ends up purifying Amy. I'd laugh if they somehow worked that into SoulCalibur VII, or at least made reference to it. Soul Arena's Beloved (Hard) even tied into this, because you fought Kilik in addition to Raphael and Amy, but they never explored this in future games or explained it anywhere:
:sc2rap2::sc2kil2::sc4amy1:
 

ZionOAS

[09] Warrior
I’m glad you guys are clear where I’m coming from now. Going forward it’s possible to tie all the fights together at Lost Cathedral but it requires them to patch up Night Terrors origins somewhat. There was an ending where Zasalamel becomes Abyss, Siegfried and Nightmare fight him to get the swords back. After defeating him they face each other too a draw. But if you made Nightmare win the duel he could obtain everything and become NightTerror. Someone defeats NightTerror and that causes Nightmare to be so weakened he causes the inverse evil seed before he will fall apart. Siegfried beaten by Nightmare and reunited with Soul Calibur will be healed by it and go on his journey for their final battle to which he destroys Nightmare on top of the tower. Doesn’t have the strength to stop Algol, and Mitsurugi will defeat him.

And the Raphael thing and ZWEI could happen. He was working for a noble in Transylvania, when Graf defeated the Noble(it happened to be a real life person) ZWEI escaped. This is why Graf has the bounty on him. But instead of that noble in particular they could use one of these new ones, and even wrap this all together more with him being related to Groh. Who had a problem with Azwel who might still be consulting aid to Raphael. The two brothers antagonist have gotten together. The lone wolf, the black steed and someone get the fortune teller in there.
 

Rusted Blade

[07] Duelist
I’m glad you guys are clear where I’m coming from now. Going forward it’s possible to tie all the fights together at Lost Cathedral but it requires them to patch up Night Terrors origins somewhat. There was an ending where Zasalamel becomes Abyss, Siegfried and Nightmare fight him to get the swords back. After defeating him they face each other too a draw. But if you made Nightmare win the duel he could obtain everything and become NightTerror. Someone defeats NightTerror and that causes Nightmare to be so weakened he causes the inverse evil seed before he will fall apart. Siegfried beaten by Nightmare and reunited with Soul Calibur will be healed by it and go on his journey for their final battle to which he destroys Nightmare on top of the tower. Doesn’t have the strength to stop Algol, and Mitsurugi will defeat him.

And the Raphael thing and ZWEI could happen. He was working for a noble in Transylvania, when Graf defeated the Noble(it happened to be a real life person) ZWEI escaped. This is why Graf has the bounty on him. But instead of that noble in particular they could use one of these new ones, and even wrap this all together more with him being related to Groh. Who had a problem with Azwel who might still be consulting aid to Raphael. The two brothers antagonist have gotten together. The lone wolf, the black steed and someone get the fortune teller in there.
....You forgot to account for Bangu, Chei, Gel-O-Fury, Aurelia, Necrid, Marienbard, the Apprentice, that guy who once shot Mitsurugi, and the elephant on display in the back of the phantom pavilion.
 
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DanteSC3

[14] Master
Why does NO ONE ever account for Aglaia? She's canonically KOS-MOS and Luna's hybridization and prime candidate to bring back the Grieve Edge style. But they just tossed her into SoulCalibur IV using Amy's style, for no reason that was ever explained. Really boggles the mind.
 

Rusted Blade

[07] Duelist
She's canonically KOS-MOS and Luna's hybridization and...
Wait, what are you trying to say about Aglaia? She's just another chronicles CaS/minor character who happens to use grieve edge: how does that canonically connect her to KOS-MOS, who didn't even appear in the game (her gear/likeness are in the CaS editor so you can make a very close approximation, but she appears in no story mode and has no moveset)?
 

DanteSC3

[14] Master
Wait, what are you trying to say about Aglaia? She's just another chronicles CaS/minor character who happens to use grieve edge: how does that canonically connect her to KOS-MOS, who didn't even appear in the game (her gear/likeness are in the CaS editor so you can make a very close approximation, but she appears in no story mode and has no moveset)?
It wasn't a completely serious post (though, neither was yours, I didn't take it that way anyway), but she's one of two Chronicles of the Sword characters who uses KOS-MOS's hair, but she also uses Ring Pants and Metal Gauntlets, and so does Luna. I just felt like being silly and I want Grieve Edge back.
 

Rusted Blade

[07] Duelist
It wasn't a completely serious post (though, neither was yours, I didn't take it that way anyway), but she's one of two Chronicles of the Sword characters who uses KOS-MOS's hair, but she also uses Ring Pants and Metal Gauntlets, and so does Luna. I just felt like being silly and I want Grieve Edge back.
Ahhh, gotcha. Well here's a couple of little pick-me-ups for you as a grieve edge fan; not much of a consolation prize for an actual moveset, but I suspect you'll enjoy them all the same: 1) an homage from Monty Oum (one of a number of Soul Calibur references in his work; what a shame to lose such a talented and driven artist at such a young age), and Dennis To's take on such a weapon.
 

DanteSC3

[14] Master
I'm more than familiar with RWBY, and I'm actually really sad that Melanie and Miltia haven't made much of a return appearance since Yang's trailer. They were in, like, one episode, and they just shrugged, sighed, and walked off camera. I wanted to see them fight some more, since I liked both the kicking and the claw style also, very unique flair and no other characters in the show have reflected this (no, Mercury doesn't count for kicking, he's something else completely different to me). The Dennis To video was pretty cool, though, I haven't seen that one before. Kinda curious about the movie it's from, may track it down and watch the whole thing for context.
 

Rusted Blade

[07] Duelist
I'm more than familiar with RWBY, and I'm actually really sad that Melanie and Miltia haven't made much of a return appearance since Yang's trailer. They were in, like, one episode, and they just shrugged, sighed, and walked off camera. I wanted to see them fight some more, since I liked both the kicking and the claw style also, very unique flair and no other characters in the show have reflected this (no, Mercury doesn't count for kicking, he's something else completely different to me).
It wouldn't be the same anyway; the action has been largely lackluster since Monty's death and making a style like that work in action choreography requires a keen aesthetic eye.

The Dennis To video was pretty cool, though, I haven't seen that one before. Kinda curious about the movie it's from, may track it down and watch the whole thing for context.
It's Princess and the Seven Kung Fu Masters. The fight choreography is not half bad, thought it's often over-the-top (as you can see at the end of that segment); it's a bit farcical--think Kung Fu Hustle but not quite that stylized and asinine (which is by no means a dig at Kung Fu Hustle, a truly brilliant film in its own way).
 

DanteSC3

[14] Master
I mean, yeah, I'm kinda done with RWBY, it's really gone downhill in terms of choreography as a tradeoff for being really shiny and pretty and crisp, but honestly, I'd take Monty's choreography back and give up the pretty in a heartbeat. Shame we can't have those days again, but it is what it is.

I'm definitely okay with over the top kung fu movies, and yes, it was pretty obvious from the clip that it would be, but I'm not complaining. I'll probably enjoy the heck out of it.
 

DanteSC3

[14] Master
So, new interesting conundrum. Amy’s trailer footage shows Raphael defeating Nightmare, which kind of implies we’re skipping ahead to the end of SoulCalibur II... would you consider that a divergence? I wouldn’t, necessarily, but then...

The next part of Amy’s trailer seems to suggest that Azwel will be the one responsible for gifting Amy the crystal ball? And by extension, turning her into Viola... but obviously, her fighting style here is just Amy, nothing magical about it, aside from the rose projectile, but I’d say that hardly counts.

I guess it depends on how far Amy’s Soul Chronicle goes, but let’s say she does turn into Viola at the end of her story, teasing her as a DLC character for season two (Stone? A crystal is technically a rock...), depending on where it goes in the timeline, maybe Raphael is going to become host for Nightmare and Amy is going to become Viola in what would be SoulCalibur III times!

Now wouldn’t that be something?
 

ZionOAS

[09] Warrior
I wouldn't go as far to say we are diverging yet. I look at it more as it just might be a teaser to show a prelude to her trailer like 2B had a chronicle'esque teaser. Yet lets talk about how Viola can be created...Because like I said the Groh thing I doubt because of how his ending was when he lives he learns to control the power. He says he can't go back to Aval and he wants to get just as strong as the Conduit. But I do see him being related to Z.W,E,I. I keep looking at his in game face and Z.W.E.I and they look related. I could see Z.W.E.I actually being the older cooler trope brother. But what has perplexed me to unfathomable depths is how Amy and Viola could exist at the same time without going into the time skip. And all I can think of now is that her she is split like her soul, or body and soul as result to whatever malfestation is going to happen to her. It's ust too much foreshadowing that Z.W.E.I and Viola are about to be reunited and it feels so good.

And now I think all we really need to figure out is Star for the DLC. But I was saying how all the DLC characters are including strong hefty Soul Chronicle inclusions and tie into either more of the DLC characters and existing ones. Rock is going end up being Stone. But I'm sure people will return into this Viola is Star argument.
 

Aiddon

[10] Knight
So, new interesting conundrum. Amy’s trailer footage shows Raphael defeating Nightmare, which kind of implies we’re skipping ahead to the end of SoulCalibur II... would you consider that a divergence? I wouldn’t, necessarily, but then...

The next part of Amy’s trailer seems to suggest that Azwel will be the one responsible for gifting Amy the crystal ball? And by extension, turning her into Viola... but obviously, her fighting style here is just Amy, nothing magical about it, aside from the rose projectile, but I’d say that hardly counts.

I guess it depends on how far Amy’s Soul Chronicle goes, but let’s say she does turn into Viola at the end of her story, teasing her as a DLC character for season two (Stone? A crystal is technically a rock...), depending on where it goes in the timeline, maybe Raphael is going to become host for Nightmare and Amy is going to become Viola in what would be SoulCalibur III times!

Now wouldn’t that be something?
It might just be an Easter Egg for longtime fans same with how they play "Dance of the Oracle" during the trailer. Viola doesn't come into being until WAY after IV and I doubt Amy's Chronicle is going to go into even III.

As I've said before, I look at Soulcalibur like the player is reading a historiography, the tagline of the franchise even being "The Stage of History." And like the study of history, people are learning new things about certain events or reinterpreting events due to the context of the times they happened. SCVI is just that, it's a rereading of events that happened before, but we now have new facts laid out and hidden details. SCVI is like the RE1 and RE2 remakes; retelling events and making them more in line with future entries
 

xxInfernoxx

[09] Warrior
I’m glad you guys are clear where I’m coming from now. Going forward it’s possible to tie all the fights together at Lost Cathedral but it requires them to patch up Night Terrors origins somewhat. There was an ending where Zasalamel becomes Abyss, Siegfried and Nightmare fight him to get the swords back. After defeating him they face each other too a draw. But if you made Nightmare win the duel he could obtain everything and become NightTerror. Someone defeats NightTerror and that causes Nightmare to be so weakened he causes the inverse evil seed before he will fall apart.
There's a problem with that though, and it's Nightmare's host. In 3, it was stated that it was weak and unstable. This was shown yet again and more explicitly in 4, where he had to implant his powers into Osthreinsburg so the body wouldn't die, which it ends up doing in Tira's ending because it can't handle the power he already had, and he just sat on his throne in that entire story. So it's safe to assume the power he'd get if he became Night Terror would pretty much destroy him there and then. If anything, retconning Night Terror to not having a connection to Nightmare during SC3 makes the most sense. That, or give him a story like this:

Soul Edge is destroyed, and some fragments don't make it into the mortal realm. Instead, they end up getting sucked into the Star of Chaos where they merge and grow in power, resulting in Night Terror being created that way.

It was already told what caused the inverse Evil Seed: The energy SC and SE unleashed when they clashed scattered across the world, which caused almost all fragments to return to SE.
 

ZionOAS

[09] Warrior
That would definitely clean it up as well. You would think though if both Nights and Soul Edge are tools of Inferno Night Terror with Soul Edge complete would be his perfect form as well. But as long as it’s cleaned up and doesn’t replace Inferno I’m fine with it.

I’m wondering when Li Long is put into the story will they sneak in Natsu Easter eggs when he begins to get involved with the Fuma clan?
 

Starknight

[08] Mercenary
It's quite simple, actually:

1.- No Hwang.
2.- No Li Long.
3.- No Rock ( Nor Bangoo , for that matter.).

Plus, the addition of popular characters from later editions makes the current timeline sort of a mess only previously seen in JJ. Abrams' Star Trek.
 

DanteSC3

[14] Master
Hwang is quite present in both story modes, though, despite not being playable or having his own style. It reeks of cut content, even more blatantly than Aeon.

Li Long only gets a passing mention, and Rock is all but excluded (but technically still in the canon as being what Astaroth was based on), but they’re still there.

The newer characters being included are for a more cohesive narrative, and showing some origins that already existed in text form, but actually showing in game now, so I really am not seeing the mess.