In defense of Reversal Edge

Recently Crow Spaceboy, a writer for SRK, has released an article discussing his impressions of Soul Calibur 6 based on the demo build that was available at Texas Showdown from May 4-6. As someone who was present at both Final Round and Texas Showdown to play the demo, I have some grievances with his article, specifically his discussion of the mechanic Reversal Edge. While everyone is entitled to his or her opinion, I think it is dishonest and a disservice to readers to dismiss a mechanic as a "dismal failure" while clearly not understanding how the mechanic functions and how it affects the game and while stating "I did not once use this mechanic intentionally." In the interest of providing factual information about Soul Calibur VI I will discuss Reveral Edge vs Guard Impact.

The main point used for why RE is bad was that it serves the same function as Guard Impact while carrying more risk. For those of you that do not know Guard Impact serves as a tool to break up attacks, working against Highs, Lows, Mids, Grabs, and Critical Edge in SC6, Reversal Edge absorbs hits from your opponent and then launches into an RPS like mini-game if it hits. The options available in Reversal Edge are A, B, K, G, Gi, sidestep, backstep, and forward step. It may seem at a glance that RE is much riskier than GI because it requires two reads to get a payout out of significant damage while you can lose for starting RE, but it is important to note that Reversal Edge is clearly in favor of the player who initiates the exchange. On the first round of Reversal Edge if both players attack you have a 1 in 3 chance of losing, 1 in 3 chance of winning, and a 2 in 3 chance of winning vs evasive options. In the second round of Reversal edge, it carries the same odds except you have a 2 in 3 chance of winning on both for attacking with lethal hit damage. Also worth mentioning you can kill with the hit of Reversal edge before the rock paper scissors exchange, and you gain roughly a third of a bar of meter for initiating.

Now with Guard Impact, you are making a 50/50 decision after the impact on whether your opponent will reGI or block, so you could also argue that you could lose for starting a Guard Impact exchange which is statistically less in your favor. You also take Guard Guage damage for whiffing a Guard Impact and Break Attacks specifically give a Lethal Hit against Guard Impacts to discourage players from using Guard Impact. Reversal Edge does have a long whiff animation that can be sidestepped, but you are not going to sidestep Reversal Edge when someone uses it in the middle of a string you could also say that Guard Impact also carries the risk of being punishable if whiffed. Reversal Edge serves as an excellent utility in string defense and stopping from your opponent. Looking at the exhibition from Texas Showdown you can see BxA Party Wolf the best Xiba in America during Soul Calibur 5 (probably the world too) and Link RkC the Soul Calibur 3 legend using Reversal Edge to great effect. I do not want this to be taken as an attack on Crow; I want to address what I believe to inaccuracies in his article regarding Reversal Edge.

edit: this is all based on how reversal edge functions on the demo that was available at Texas Showdown which is subject to change
Original Article Here: http://shoryuken.com/2018/05/07/han...r-vi-at-texas-showdown-2018-part-1-mechanics/
 
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Comments

#4
RE still seems kind of purposeless imo. I like that they are trying to do something new other than just adding traditional supers. I just don't see a scenario where I would want to initiate a RE when I could just use a safe poke or something evasive. It seems like when I would use a RE I'm giving the opponent a chance (even if it is 1/3) where as putting out something safe seems to just be a better option. If the goal is to use it to bait out a GI, or break up string pressure, there are already tons of other safer ways to do that. I think with the way RE is currently it should be at least give the initiator more options than the rock paper scissors set up. So I generally disagree with your post and I'm still concerned about the actual usefulness of RE. I walked away from his article more excited for sc6 than before. As an old vet it seemed more cautiously optimistic than completely negative and misleading as some of you guys believe. Personally I'm much more interested in what someone with that much experience enjoyed about the game than hanging up on the small things they didn't. RE still hasn't been proven in my book and that's completely ok. We should have some level of scrutiny for new mechanics being added to our franchise, and we should be cautious to praise things that have yet to be proven in actual meta.
EDIT: not to mention with the way GI has been buffed so hard i see even less reason to use a RE against strings and pressure. I'd rather land a GI and have the opponent right where i want them. It would give me way more tools at my disposal than just the options from RE. Plus it wouldnt give my opponent more meter like RE does. In the end I hope RE is useful as it was probably a lot of money and dev time to make all those pretty mid game cutscenes.
 
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#7
RE still seems kind of purposeless imo. I like that they are trying to do something new other than just adding traditional supers. I just don't see a scenario where I would want to initiate a RE when I could just use a safe poke or something evasive. It seems like when I would use a RE I'm giving the opponent a chance (even if it is 1/3) where as putting out something safe seems to just be a better option. If the goal is to use it to bait out a GI, or break up string pressure, there are already tons of other safer ways to do that. I think with the way RE is currently it should be at least give the initiator more options than the rock paper scissors set up. So I generally disagree with your post and I'm still concerned about the actual usefulness of RE. I walked away from his article more excited for sc6 than before. As an old vet it seemed more cautiously optimistic than completely negative and misleading as some of you guys believe. Personally I'm much more interested in what someone with that much experience enjoyed about the game than hanging up on the small things they didn't. RE still hasn't been proven in my book and that's completely ok. We should have some level of scrutiny for new mechanics being added to our franchise, and we should be cautious to praise things that have yet to be proven in actual meta.
EDIT: not to mention with the way GI has been buffed so hard i see even less reason to use a RE against strings and pressure. I'd rather land a GI and have the opponent right where i want them. It would give me way more tools at my disposal than just the options from RE. Plus it wouldnt give my opponent more meter like RE does. In the end I hope RE is useful as it was probably a lot of money and dev time to make all those pretty mid game cutscenes.
I was skeptical of RE at first but once I played the game I realized how useful it is. pretty much anyone else I have talked to that actually understands how RE works changed their mind as well. RE statistically carries less risk than GI and you get damage for starting the RE plus 1/3 a bar of meter. regarding crow be "experienced" to my knowledge he played SC2 has been absent from competitive play for every Soul Calibur game following, while you have other older players who have continued to play using RE including Link RKC, Bibulus, HumanTyphoon, BigBoi, kAb, and RTD. Again everyone is entitled to their opinion but he is stating as a fact that RE is a "dismal failure" while also saying that he chose not use it and did not properly compare it to GI is stupid.
 
#8
I think the RE mechanic is a momentum killing easy panic reset button that will get old real quick
RE can be used to swing the momentum of the match in your favor and with the whiff animation attached it is definitely not something you can just brainlessly throw out
 
#9
crow has won (and helped run) tournaments for 2,3,4, and 5. So as far as experience goes hes got everyone who jumped in at 5 beat pretty solidly. In fact you could say he has a better understanding of the franchise as a whole than most other players on this site. especially the ones who only played scv exclusively.
EDIT: not to mention he has modded specific soul arenas for those games as well on this very site. Does that mean his opinion is law? no, hell I was a mod on this site back in the day. Dont spread ignorance, learn the facts before you try to defame someones opinion. Like I've said before we ALL want sc6 to be a good game, a lot of us have been waiting a long ass time for another great entry in the series.
 
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#10
Had a long post written but decided to scrap it. Long story short, I had a very limited time with sc6 this weekend. Crow was pretty condescending to me wanting to play a 4th game after I sat and watched him and bibs play a set for 30+minutes.

See you in sc6, or more than likely not.
 
#11
RE can be used to swing the momentum of the match in your favor and with the whiff animation attached it is definitely not something you can just brainlessly throw out
Why do we need something to swing the momentum?

Soulcalibur is RPS focused, has Ringouts, GIs and Supers. I hate the fact that theyve added this slow mo mechanic to a game that's already so free, fast paced and allows plenty chances to swing momentum.

I dont care how strategic it is, RE just seems incredibly unnecessary.
 
#12
Why do we need something to swing the momentum?

Soulcalibur is RPS focused, has Ringouts, GIs and Supers. I hate the fact that theyve added this slow mo mechanic to a game that's already so free, fast paced and allows plenty chances to swing momentum.

I dont care how strategic it is, RE just seems incredibly unnecessary.
If you don't care about strategy and get scared that someone read you with a defensive move, then maybe fighting games aren't what you find enjoyable. Stuff like this has been in every SoulCalibur game. It's a fun mechanic too, so while it may be "unnecessary", I am going to have to disagree with you 100% that it shouldn't be in the game.
 
#13
crow has won (and helped run) tournaments for 2,3,4, and 5. So as far as experience goes hes got everyone who jumped in at 5 beat pretty solidly. In fact you could say he has a better understanding of the franchise as a whole than most other players on this site. especially the ones who only played scv exclusively.
EDIT: not to mention he has modded specific soul arenas for those games as well on this very site. Does that mean his opinion is law? no, hell I was a mod on this site back in the day. Dont spread ignorance, learn the facts before you try to defame someones opinion. Like I've said before we ALL want sc6 to be a good game, a lot of us have been waiting a long ass time for another great entry in the series.
I could be wrong about his tournament history but that is what ive been told by players who were around. We could also be talking about 2 different players since there were several players using crow as a tag in the sc2 days. Either way he clearly does not understand how RE works and isn't winning anything anytime soon
 
#14
Well lets all hope sc6 is a great game (and RE). The way the devs were talking about it makes it seem like this is sc's last chance for the franchise. If it does end up being a great game I'm excited for all the new blood that's going to be showing up (and probably kicking ass) here. Hopefully sc6 wont get drowned out by other big releases in the fall. sc6 being released on pc is going to be HUGE for the sales numbers. The more important factor is retention rate, so it will be interesting to see what the numbers look like 60 days after launch In the meantime lets try to chill on each other a bit, infighting can only hurt this already small niche community within a niche genre.
 
#15
All I want is Taki to have EXC I don't even care if it costs meter, pretty please Namco. Maybe her hype mode or Soul charge will allow it, crossing fingers.
 
#17
I still say they either get rid of Reversal or limit its use. SC6 imo is perfect gameplay wise all except for the reversal edge, its too gimmicky, and there's no way to safely avoid it since every option has something it will lose to. ¬_¬
 
#18
I would have preferred the yomi of first landing a RE and GI to have greater differentiation (I'm not going into the post-GI / post-RE because its clear the scenarios are different).

From what I've read/seen,

1) RE may fail against strings if the opponent continues to attack or RE may fail in that you don't capitalize on the built in attack (by charging it for too long in anticipation of longer attack strings). RE window can be charged.

2) GI on the other hand immediately goes into a post-GI state. There's a fat GI window.

I would have preferred if (just my idealistic opinions)

A) GI had to guess between H/M and M/L but with a tighter smaller window (and put you into a post-GI state) so you don't have to worry about strings vs single attacks.

B) RE on the other hand has to be managed against strings or single attacks, but has as bigger window and catches all heights. Can't RE against grabs.

On Topic: Are we (as a community) expecting a large influx of new fans that come from traditional unarmed / 2D fighters ?
 
#19
In the Mistu/Sophi build they had at Strong Style guard breaks also LH'd RE's. Did this change from the first build to the 2nd because I see no one mentioning that when discussing RE?
 
#20
I have heard that RE's properties have been changed in later builds due to feedback from Evo Japan so this current debate may be mooted should we see an updated build with more characters.