Infinite Justice: Patroklos SCV Guide

Discussion in 'Patroklos' started by DrakeAldan, Mar 28, 2012.

  1. DrakeAldan

    DrakeAldan Follow the rules!

    Welcome to the Patroklos player guide for Soul Calibur V. This guide represents my own personal understanding of Patroklos, and thus is subject to change given that new information constantly arises.

    The first part of this guide is a broad listing of tools available to Patroklos- a quick-reference, if you will. The subsequent parts involve more player philosophy than solid facts. i.e. they are my ways of playing. Your own taste and style may differ from mine, in which case at least the first part of the guide should be somewhat helpful.

    As always, this is a community project aimed at raising the skill levels of all interested players. Moderators are free to edit without restriction in the name of furthering right and just playstyles.

    At-A-Glance: Toolset


    Standing Interrupts:
    AA, 2A, BB, 6BBB, 4K, A+B, B+K, 9K/9B, 236AB, 236B, CE

    FC Interrupts:
    FC A, 6BBB, 4K, wrB, 9K/9B, 236AB, 236B, CE

    Anti-Step Tools:
    AA, 6A, 3A, 2A, 1A, 4A, FC A, wrA, 66A, 22_88AA, 11_44_77A, 1K, 4K, 66_33_99K, 11_77K, 44KK, 236AB


    Standing Mixup Tools:
    1K, throws, BB, 3B

    Guard Burst Tools (listed in order of power, strongest first):
    B+K, 8B+K, [A+B], A+B, 3B, 4B, 22_88B, 22_88K, 33_99B, 44B, 1B, 66B, 6K, 6A, 4A, 66A

    Guard Preservation Tools (moves that will not cause guard burst):
    AA, 3A, 2A, BB, 2B, K, 3KK, 2K, 1K, 4K, 2A+B, 44A, 66K, 11K, 236A, throws

    Guard Burst Combos (check your recovery on burst, some combos impossible after certain moves):
    6BBB, 66B+K, 236K (substitute 236K with CE for +20 damage)
    66B, 66B+K, 236K (substitute 236K with CE for +20 damage)
    3B W! 3B W! 44A, 3KK, 236K (near wall)
    3B, 236B (ring edge)
    1B, 1B BE, 2A (ring edge)
    66A BE, 1B BE, 2A (ring edge)
    CE (ring edge)
    3B, CE (ring edge)
    8A+B, CE (ring edge)

    "Guts" Circumvention Tools (quick, simple pokes above 20 damage):
    3A, 2A+B, 236B, throws

    Wakeup Tools:
    3B, 2K, 1K, 2A+B, 2B+K, 8B+K, 44B, 236K

    "Wakeup" Tools (consistency is player dependent):
    1A, BB, 1B, B+K, 66A, 66B, throws


    Standing Whiff Punish Tools:
    BB, 236B, 3B, 66B

    Sidestep Whiff Punish Tools:
    BB, 3B, 33_99B, 66B, 22_88B, 22_88K, 11_77B, 22AA

    FC Whiff Punish Tools:
    236B, wrKA, wrA+B

    Standing Block Punish Tools:
    AA, CE, BB, 236B, 3B, 66B

    FC Block Punish Tools:
    CE, 236B, wrKA, wrA+B
  2. DrakeAldan

    DrakeAldan Follow the rules!

    General Overview: Hold Forward [6]

    One of Patroklos' main weaknesses is that a majority of his moves have short if not terrible range. As such, he cannot be played like the rest of the cast, hanging far back and looking for openings. 66B is much too linear for long-range play, and once your opponents realize this you will be stepped to death.

    Many players have a habit of backdashing on reflex at the start of a match, to dissuade any possible opening moves. This is where you must play differently as Patroklos, for when your opponent moves back, you must move forward. Every time your opponent tries to get breathing room, you need to deny it from him. Patroklos is pure aggression, and the high frame advantage on a number of his pokes points to this. Point-blank, Patroklos has access to a full range of options that can completely shut down an opponent.

    It is important to remember that backdash cannot be canceled freely with G anymore. However, forward run and forward step can be canceled with G at any time. Thus, even if you are running up just to block, consider it a small victory in that you have gained optimal position.

    Any spacing done by Patroklos must be done at mid-close range, at the least within 3B tip range. Subtle pushbacks on moves like 1K or 66B can make backdash into whiff punish easier, but something like backdash canceling into whiff punish is not Patroklos' forte. As such, all of your spacing should be close and tight. When spacing with Patroklos, your opponents' moves should be barely missing if done correctly (compare to longer-ranged characters who can easily hit from across the screen.)

    Stay close (at least within 3B range), and do not give up your position. If you backdash or retreat, if it is not a trap, dodge, or psychological setup to ensure stepping in later, you are playing right into the enemy's hands, as at range Patroklos' effectiveness is dramatically reduced.
    REPROBEAN_CHILD and VoidCommand like this.
  3. DrakeAldan

    DrakeAldan Follow the rules!

    Infinite Justice: Neverending Meter with 236K

    236K serves as the backbone of Patroklos' offense. It turns a mildly respectable character into an extraordinary one.

    Landing 236K once will give you half a sub-stock in meter. (i.e. 1/8 of a full bar.) Land 4 236Ks and you have enough for a Brave Edge or Guard Impact. Land 8 236Ks and you have a full bar and access to Critical Edge.

    On paper, ignoring the above, 236K is a horrible move. Slow for a CQC move at 21 frames, -18 on block, poor recovery on whiff, and only 36 damage for the risk (read- essentially half-life from most characters) that you take.

    So how do you hit this move reliably despite its drawbacks?

    The answer is in combos and in okizeme.

    In combos, 236K's damage output and scaling is comparable to 236B, 66A+B, or 2A+B as combo filler. Whenever possible, 236K should be tacked on whenever the opponent is vulnerable to it (i.e. right after launchers).

    In okizeme, 236K's speed becomes a moot point. 236K often catches siderolls, hits grounded for 36 damage (high for a ground-hitting poke) and, should an opponent stand up into it, has ring out properties.

    When using 236K properly, you will begin to notice that you will have more meter than you know what to do with. You may find that you lose two rounds, and you already have 2 bars, or that you spend meter for CE, and you are able to perform CE later in the same round. Here lies the true strength of Patroklos- virtually limitless meter that can be spent at any time given the opportunity.

    Simple launchers turned into CE combos can easily turn into 40% or more, giving Patroklos massive life leads early on, or enough power to come back from the brink with only a few correct guesses. CE has massive ringout range and can lead to instantaneous death given correct positioning. CE also has excellent punishment properties on the level of Pyrrha/Ω, dealing 90 damage off an i13 hit. Because Patroklos gains meter so well, CE can be used to close out rounds without any worry of "wasting" meter, as it is very easy to reclaim.

    Guard Impact can take away strings, mixups, and negate long-range play by the opponent. It can shut down an opponent's offensive and make them lock up due to sheer psychological pressure. Using 66B, 66B+K, 236K after a Guard Impact nearly pays for the Guard Impact itself, meaning that once Patroklos has half a bar (just half!) he can Guard Impact for free, dramatically changing his matchups. Should the opponent be willing to re-GI or enter a GI war, they put themselves at a distinct disadvantage, for Patroklos can use this opportunity to drain the opponent of valuable meter while being able to rapidly build his own.

    Proper use of 236K leads to a momentum effect, in which Patroklos gets stronger and stronger the more he guesses right. This can end matches incredibly quickly, and lead to opponent lockup due to intimidation, further solidifying your chances of victory.
    Destro, Emperor, TiZ and 3 others like this.
  4. DrakeAldan

    DrakeAldan Follow the rules!

    Frame Advantage: Nonstop Onslaught

    Patroklos is a textbook rushdown character. Simple pokes will give large amounts of frame advantage (+6 - +12) and enable you to keep attacking with a relentless offense. Frame traps in 1B and 1K further add to the illusion that the opponent is powerless when Patroklos begins to move.

    Something unique to Patroklos, that I have not yet seen in other characters, is that the advantage that he gets can be so high that it becomes impossible for the opponent to move. Sidesteps will be punished by 3B, which will track at this high level of advantage. Not only does this mean that you can receive high damage off of guessing a sidestep, it is a distinct psychological blow to the opponent who does not know this, for they attempt to step and get hit with a vertical. While they complain that the game is broke, you use this opportunity to continue hitting them.

    The main choices after a successful hit are:

    AA, BB(listed as a safe replacement for 236B), 3B, 236AB, 236B, 1K, 4K, 66B

    Patroklos has multiple tech crouch options in 3B, 236AB, and 236B, and this makes him hard if not impossible to interrupt with quick high attacks.

    Note that some of these options are unsafe, but as you condition the opponent to block and punish, you can use this time to step in and throw or deliver more mixups and continue your pressure.

    What follows is a list of attacks, and follow-ups that should counter any option the opponent attempts besides blocking. Chaining these attacks together without ending in a knockdown should result in pushback that is just big enough to sidestep or backdash retaliations, or step in and continue pressure.

    AA - 3B_236AB_1K
    6A - 3B_66B
    2A - 236B_236AB
    3A - 3B_4K_1K
    4A - 3B_4K_1K
    1B block - AA_236B_1K_66B
    4B - 3B_66B
    6K - 3B_66B
    1K - AA_236B_1K_66B
    4K - 3B_236AB_1K
    wrA - 3B_66B
    66A - 3B_66B
    44A - 3B_66B
    66B tip block - 66B_backstep
    44B - 3B_66B
    11K - 236B_236AB
    TiZ, Destro, BlueFox2608 and 2 others like this.
  5. DrakeAldan

    DrakeAldan Follow the rules!

    Specific Okizeme Setups: Backflip City

    This is a short writeup on a few high-advantage okizeme situations that Patroklos has. Knowing these situations can lead to more momentum and one very frustrated opponent.

    CH 6BBB_66B, 66B+K, 236K

    When you land this combo (which you should be doing repeatedly) the opponent is dropped at your feet. 236K will catch siderolls and hit OTG (backrolls occasionally), and 1K will catch backrolls, hit OTG, and break a standing guard. Should the opponent try something other than this they will stand up into 1K pressure, or get flipped by 236K and land in the exact same position as before. It is possible, with an impatient or unskilled opponent, or an opponent who continually guesses for a crouching block, to literally backflip them to death.

    8/18/12 update - It's possible to use 3B in place of 236K to catch siderolls, backrolls, and OTG. 3B is safer than 236K. It is more likely to get punished (being more common), but if your opponent knows to (launch) punish 236K using 3B puts you at less risk.
    On sideturned and backturned opponents, 236K is generally going to be more consistent.

    It should be noted that opponents can GI out of the 236K/1K mixup in this particular case. Nightmare can CE from the ground as well.

    3B, 236K ~ (3B)

    A very peculiar setup. Should the opponent try to abare and interrupt from the ground, they will most likely be re-launched. I have landed a relaunch at least 3 times in a row before. 3B will hit OTG and sometimes siderolls for good damage, and is countered by blocking or backrolling, in which case you have enough time to step in and continue pressure.


    When the opponent is hit with 9K they are again at your feet. 236K (or 3B if you prefer) is a "combo" that cannot be siderolled, backrolled, or guarded, and must be teched left, right, or back.

    Should they decide to tech, 66A should get blocked in all directions for guaranteed guard damage. -6 on block sets up perfectly for an A+B_B+K_GI response to any retaliation.

    2A will catch right and left tech, and is generally safe to whiff.
    CE will catch back and right tech (big damage!).

    A similar situation exists for 66B+G, except there is no guaranteed OTG followup there.


    The previous 236K_3B, 1K mixup applies here, with the awkward positioning helping 236K to even catch backrolls. This is also applicable to the left side throw.

    From this position you can attack freely without fear of a possible GI.

    236K_3B, 1K is applicable to all other throws except right side should the opponent decide not to tech afterwards. (After B+G, 3B can be escaped by siderolling left.)


    After successful punishment or interrupt, 8B+K will catch all rolls for an extended ground stun and high damage. Should the opponent decide to stand and block, they will take heavy guard gauge damage.

    Teching will avoid 8B+K, in which case you can 66A for guaranteed guard damage. When they have been conditioned to tech, and conditioned to block 66A, you can run up and force mixups.
    BlueFox2608, Senzait and Rufus like this.
  6. DrakeAldan

    DrakeAldan Follow the rules!

    Attack Detail: Movelist Discussion

    These are a list of the tools I personally have chosen for myself. Note that it is not the entire movelist- your own choices and motivations may differ from mine.

    AA - Fast. Anti-step. Poor range but you should be in the guy's face anyway. High advantage.
    6A - Has about AA's range. Relatively slow, but is anti-step, good guard damage, enemy BT on hit.
    3A - Great spacing anti-step. Hard to punish at the tip, large TC, 26 damage defeats Guts.
    2A_FC A - Large advantage on hit like every other 2A out there. Patroklos has more range than you'd think with this because he steps forward a little.
    1A - "Online swag." Some TC frames, anti-step, ring out properties. Use sparingly.
    4A - If you're playing the "safe game", 4A works well as a mid step-kill.
    wrA - High advantage on hit- but I've not seen people who step around me in FC yet.
    66_33_99A - Useful for okizeme to lock the opponent in one spot. TC frames in this are very short so don't get cocky with it. It's possible to catch opponents who you know are going to step at range with this, but if you get predictable this is slow enough to punish with JG or something else equally nasty- most of the time it's better to at least try to run forward into 236AB range. Very high advantage on hit is a neat little bonus. Be careful when you use this- it is easy to misjudge the range and whiff in front of someone's face (that's bad).
    22_88AA - I find this has limited applications near ring edges or walls, and I don't often use it as it's very easy to duck and punish if you know the move. The second A can be charged for a guard break and guaranteed damage, but that's more of a gimmick than anything else.
    11_44_77A - A step-kill mid with +8 and combos on CH. It is slow, but if you use it when you know the opponent will step it can become incredibly broken. Only -2 on block, which is ridiculous considering the damage output.

    BB - i14 and a solid poking tool. The first B has more range than the followup while still giving small advantage on hit so it may be worth trying to use just B in some situations.
    I often do B, 66B on block or hit- it works a lot of the time. Don't ask me why.
    6BBB - CH fishing. Sniff out your opponent's rhythm for 90 damage. Delayable for gimmicks. It is mid-high-mid, the third strike is unsafe, and it has terrible range, so don't abuse it.
    3B - Wonderful move. TC frames make him hard to hit, step-in makes for a great whiff punisher, CE combo does 40%. Blockstun is so short that punishes often come late or not at all.
    1B - A slow frame-trap mid. The delay can catch people off guard, it does good guard gauge damage, and combos on hit. If the opponent keeps getting up and blocking when they're down, you can really harass them with this.
    4B - Limited application. High guard damage, unnatural range, and high advantage on hit is OK, but if you manage to score a hit with this and you weren't ducked or sidestepped you should have gone for 66B instead.
    wrB - Fast and easy to input. Unsafe for chip. I often use this as an interrupt coming off the ground.
    66B - The moneymaker. Fast, powerful, good range, good gauge damage, only -2 on block. Completely linear. Once you start landing this repeatedly your opponents will start stepping you at every opportunity.
    33_99B - A solid step-punish. Safer than 3B, but it has less range. Still very easy to use.
    22_88B - A ranged high attack with -3, forces crouch, good guard damage. I don't use this often, however, as it's high and everything TCs in this game. I miss or get interrupted more than I get it hit or blocked. Not nearly as good as Pyrrha's 22A.
    11_77B - Reverse ringout. This is unsafe, but hitting others with this (especially the CE combo) can quickly ruin the other guy's day. Try not to do like me and attempt this every time you're pressured.
    44B - No KND like his sister, but a good move regardless. Blocked or hit, it's still a good situation- the only bad thing is that it is slow. I would recommend saving this for okizeme.

    6K - Mainly for "sneaking" guard damage in on an unsuspecting opponent. High advantage if this actually does hit.
    3KK - Limited application in combos. Used in the open, this is somewhat of a gimmick as it's possible to TC the followup and punish 3K used on its own.
    2K_FC K - It ain't Nightmare's. Backstep and sidestep is possible but it has terrible range. Worth throwing out sometimes, though.
    1K - Incredible. An unseeable low with advantage on hit, you can rush people down with 1K and BB alone. Normally, you can hit 2 1Ks in a row. The pushback will make hitting a 3rd 1K impossible. You can step in for more 1K, you can use 3B/236AB/66B/a move of your liking that has enough reach, or you can backstep/sidestep to cause a whiff and then punish. 1K also hits grounded. It is death on block but the risk is worth it.
    4K - Fast, mid, anti-step, safe. Terrible range but the move really shines up close.
    9K - TJ with oki on hit. Only -10. It doesn't get better than this.
    wrKA - Punisher. wrKA, CE has good ringout range. The A will catch people unfamiliar with the animation, but it is all unsafe so make sure this stuff hits. If they start JGing this be careful with your reverse mixups, wrK on its own is still -18.
    66_33_99K - Mid anti-step that grants KND on hit. Pretty good for people who expect verticals when you start running up on them. Unsafe- but I can't punish it for the life of me, I don't get punished for it too many times, either.
    22_88K - Surprising range, nice little whiff punisher/spacing tool from 8WR. Though, it is high. Everything TCs in this game, but it's not completely useless. Use it every once in a while, you can catch people off guard. Be careful when throwing it out, you are technically side/backturned during the move- I have been side/back thrown out of it.
    Sliding - Remember that whole "hold forward" thing? I use this a lot. 66B_Sliding is a mixup that stinks of online but it frustrates the people you hit with it. Oh, and 236K combos afterwards too!

    A+B - aGI. Works on horizontal and vertical mids (no kicks, no stabs). What sets this apart from others is that you can hold it to extend the GI window. You can become incredibly unsafe to attack when you do this. Just the sight of this move tends to make opponents freeze up, and they get caught by the surprise range, or take heavy guard damage.
    2A+B - Death on block, relatively slow, not a lot of damage. Poor range. However, the KND granted tends to induce panic and promote irrational play. Used at the end of a match it can really get into someone's head, especially since it is not affected by Guts.
    8A+B - Limited application for pushing the opponent towards the ring edge. Be careful, as too close to the edge the move starts acting funny. With 3B, 8A+B you can ring yourself out before your opponent.
    wrA+B - Liver blow! Another punisher into combo or CE. 1 frame slower than wrKA in exchange for 1 extra frame of safety.
    B+K - Wonderful. Big tech crouch, high damage. B+K, CE is at least 51% or more. Occasionally hits grounded for high damage. High guard gauge damage. Stab punishable, but most characters will struggle to get chip damage. Really good. If you don't have meter, 44B is a force block.
    2B+K - A faster alternative to 44B, and some limited application in combos. I prefer 44B, as if you guard burst with this you will waste your burst. However, the input is easier and faster to do compared to 44B, especially out of a forward run to close space on a downed opponent, for example. If this gets blocked, a lot of people like to attack afterwards. Try to fish for JG or GI. Try it!
    8B+K - Limited application after 236B. Don't try to hit anybody with this out in the open, please.
    66B+K - Limited application in combos. As filler it builds a good amount of meter. In the open, this is usually an accident, but some opponents will get launched anyway.
    BT B+K - Not a bad BT attack. Not as good as Mitsurugi's BT B+K but it gets the job done.

    236AB - Really, really annoying. Big TC frames. Catches step. Mid. Bigger range than you'd think. Use it standing or crouching. If your opponent keeps punishing it, you can just 236A for less damage but free oki (untechable KND). If they punish 236A use 236AB to interrupt them.
    Not being able to punish this move is really going to get in their heads. Watch out for guys who JG the second hit.
    236B - Interrupt, punishment, etc. Nice TC frames. You are wide open if this does not hit or gets blocked so be careful with this.
    236K - Meter for days. Nuff said.

    A+G - Evil, evil throw. 55 damage, untechable knockdown. If you can use anything, use this.
    B+G - Not as good as A+G. If your opponent techs you really can't do much- but not everyone will tech, so that does give you some time to harass them on the ground.
    Left side throw - A similar situation to A+G. Pretty good when you land it.
    Right side throw - Eh, until you get to the wall, at which point you can do some stupid damage...
    Back throw - Really nice damage. Not much in terms of wakeup, but it's good enough.
    66B+G - The throw that got me into the game. Mash directions and hit buttons to extend the knees. 2A and CE tech traps, and the oki is pretty good if they stay on the ground. It's also quite demoralizing to get hit by.

    1B BE - Limited application in combos and ring out capability. Don't use this in the open.
    66_33_99A BE - You can tack on some extra damage if you know 66A will hit. Try not to use this recklessly, as you'll get stepped or JGd, and then you'll get hurt.
    236B BE - Extra damage in interrupt or punishment scenarios. It can also stop people from punishing 236B, but if it's expected, you'll get stepped, and then you know what. In combos, it can be used to push opponents near arena boundaries, where you can pressure them further at the wall or ring edge. As long as you are prepared to deal with reversal scenarios, your damage output should go through the roof if you can use 236B BE to position properly.
    CE - 37% raw damage. Excellent ringout capability. A force multiplier when used with 3B. Excellent speed, punishment capabilities. Wakeup super is actually an option because of how fast this is. Very linear and unsafe, pick your spots.
    Emperor, sephalump, TiZ and 16 others like this.
  7. Kenjitsu_Hokori

    Kenjitsu_Hokori [10] Knight

    This is truly.... *puts on shades*


  8. The Landslide

    The Landslide [13] Hero

    Amazing thread. Big help, I love you.
  9. Senzait

    Senzait Steamed Buns!!

    Phenomenal work as usual my friend.
  10. Gamegenie222

    Gamegenie222 [10] Knight

    Good work to the OP. This helps alot especially if you wanna pick up Pat as a main/secondary.
  11. Wyde

    Wyde [11] Champion

    Howd Wyde
    Wonderful, wonderful guide. While I'm aware the writeup is based on personal experience, I'd honestly call this Patroklos in a walnutshell. I only have one minor issue with this, though, and that would be the lack of mention of his B throws, normal and command. Throw in a word about those and this will be pretty darn close to perfect.
  12. Senzait

    Senzait Steamed Buns!!

    ^^ Good point. I would also mention his side throws. Both left and right are very powerful and when your face to face with your opponent a simple side-step into throw will yield crazy good damage. Not only that but you can mix-up both grabs for the same damage potential and less risk of it being broken.
  13. DrakeAldan

    DrakeAldan Follow the rules!

    Well, I didn't mention those, because... they're really not that good.

    A throw is 55 damage plus oki. You can be evil and repeat it again to put the opponent in the exact same situation.

    Left side throw is pretty good, but you're taking a risk for 10 extra damage. Still, I suppose A+G, and step B+G(_A+G) would be pretty legit.

    Right side throw is a risk for only 5 extra damage and it puts too much space between you, especially if the opponent techs backwards. I don't like it.

    B throw is 45 damage and you get 0 oki if the opponent techs backwards. Usually if B throw comes out I did it by accident.

    Command throw got nerfed... It's still not bad if you can get all 7 hits (playing someone who doesn't know the matchup). But, against competent players it's going to get mashed out of. Worst case scenario, you only get 40 damage. Best case, you get 50-55 (about average...)

    The oki you get is... pretty much just a 66A force block, it's nothing special. Near the wall, it's not bad, but the 236K you get afterwards is more for building meter than doing actual damage. I find the 66 tends to slow me down, too. And, of course, there's always forgetting to mash, and only doing 40 damage by accident.

    I used to love command throw, but honestly, I spam A throw more than anything these days.

    (Edit: Throws now included for posterity's sake.)
  14. Senzait

    Senzait Steamed Buns!!

    You have a point. Though I still think side-grabs are a worthy risk for a 50/50 chance of getting 60+ damage in. In the end Oki off of grabs is in a risk in itself. IMO of course.
  15. HolyForce

    HolyForce I will show you...

    66B+G has tech traps and wall splats. Instant win throw. Always 66B+G vs. A+G mix-up.
  16. Fuzion

    Fuzion [09] Warrior

    Such a great guide DrakeAldan, well done. I agree about the throws though, they should be in the guide too along with more detail about A+B. It doesn't say what it does and doesn't parry. Also I was going to ask about the 66B+G throw - does it only do 65 now? because that's the most I can get in practice mode... I'm not sure how it even works, you mentioned the opponent can mash out of it Drake? I didn't know that.. is it a certain button they have to hit to get out (besides the initial B of the throw itself)?

    Those two things are really the only mechanics I had to check other threads for.
  17. DrakeAldan

    DrakeAldan Follow the rules!

    Eh, OK... Edited...

    Yeah. The last knee was toned down from 35 to 25 damage. I mean, it's... only 10 damage less, but... I liked that 10 damage...

    You get 7 hits by mashing directions + buttons (I rotate the analog stick while mashing B). Emphasis on directions. The faster you mash directional inputs the faster the knees will fly.

    Likewise, the opponent reduces the hits by mashing directions + buttons. Worst case scenario, if they mash faster than you on "anticipation" you'll only get 40 damage. But, you usually get 2 or 3 extra knees in before that happens (but never the full 7 hits against someone paying attention).

    It's like DBZ Budokai.

    The split on A+G is 50/50 and those options cover everything. The split on 66B+G though is... 4-ways? I don't like those odds, the reads you have to make for the payoff you get... Essentially it's a reset + extra risk if you actually decide to go for something.

    Really, I only use 66B+G (and B+G by accident) because people are breaking A.
  18. Polar

    Polar [02] Apprentice

    after 66b+g standard option is 4k, it's guaranteed on right and left ukemi. If they start to do back ukemi, I'm happy because i can connect jsb be 236236k for more 70 damage! And If they stay down 3b or 236k If you like risk(i don't)
    I prefer this situation over a+g tough i use a+g like 75% of the time
  19. HolyForce

    HolyForce I will show you...

    2A is a good option after 66B+G. It catches teches, and on whiff doesn't make you realistically punishable. Using 4K your opponent has time to stand up after the hit frame and launch you. The whiffed 2A sometimes gets enemies to stand into an attack so doing another 2A immediately often CHs, even offline.

    I'd stick with 2A, a ground-hitting mid like 2B, which stay-down traps into itself over and over until they stand and guard, and which is -6 on block (Patroklos' constant pressure zone, see thread about Pat keeping pressure at negative and our comments there) or a throw. Or of course 236k for high reward / high risk.

    4K should really be used when you land something like BB (or advantage in general, like after guarding a -6 move) and know they won't stand guard (step most likely at -6) and want mostly assured damage, therefore less meter GI, nothing will stop 4K in this situation (as auto GIs like Pat's A+B don't catch non-weapon attacks, at least most don't AFIAK).

    I'm just not a fan of throwing out an attack in a ukemi situation that doesn't hit grounded other than 2A or throw.
    DrakeAldan likes this.
  20. 11R1CH11

    11R1CH11 [08] Mercenary


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