KineticClash
[10] Knight
Yeah, I guess I just wanted an option that would also punish 3B itself too. Otherwise he could get away with throwing out 3Bs which are -20 on guard.
Ivy matchups discussion and strategies
- Thread starter ZombieRommel
- Start date
WhYYZ
[10] Knight
Has a tendecy to whiff close range and is really really REALLY unsave on block.
Ring
Lay still now
He meant WR A, not WR [A].
WhYYZ
[10] Knight
Derp. Sorry.
bushindu
[11] Champion
its cool
S0ULA55A51N
[09] Warrior
Against ppl, who tend to do TC+TS moves too much at close tange I go for 2A. It's really effective against e.g. Phyrra 22K, Ivy 214 B or Yoshi 214A. It's not much dmg, but hey it's +8 on hit. And if they're out of 2A range 3(A) does the job. Against SS I agree with Ring, 4A is awesome. And 6(A) at long range seems to be like our iagA (tough it's unsafe).
S0ULA55A51N
[09] Warrior
A slightly delayed FC 2K beats all his options. I would rather block all his NSS options and punish them cuz 2K isn't really rewarding.
Just look out for NSS B cuz it's his only option were you need to duck.
NSS A is safe against Ivy although it's -12 cuz of pushback, so JG it! A JG against NSS A makes it CE/1B BE/6B8K punishable.
NSS (A) is neutral on block but 4K after NSS (A) beats all his options;
JG against NSS (A) is CE/1B BE/6B8K punishable and beats also all his options when he resets back into NSS (even NSS into GS), so it doesn't matter if he does NSS A or NSS (A) if it's JG CE/1B BE/6B8K.
NSS B = 6B8K, NSS bA = 1B BE/6B8K, NSS K = 1B BE/6B8K, NSS A+B = 6B8K
3(B)~GS = 2A
Block punishing NM 3(B) NSS options make some NM players go for the NSS~GS instead of just not doing 3(B), in order to get the annoying GS mix-up. 2A beats all GS options and gives you back the momentum (use that 8+ on hit!).
SwordGluttony
[08] Mercenary
2k and 3k are unfortunately steppable, but they are to this point still the safest thing next to a well placed 1A.
It's still a shame that 66A and 66B mix ups are so risky, 66B has slight tracking, and you have a bit of breathing room on block, along with the former. I'd love to bait a guaranteed block to throw in 44B mix ups but it's back to the drawing board, I'm tired of 214B, it's not safe enough.
One of my biggest problems with 3B is that it doesn't escape tracking verticals as well at 214B did. No more than 7B's use against Night's ans Sieg's along other long verticals, can't quite parachute you to safety from an attack on block.
There's a lot of times I've landed a 66A 66B, and eaten claymore and rapier sandwiches going backward with 7B.
I know it's about gauging your opponents reactions in the end, but you can't turtle with a passive aggressive character in a game that promotes pressure, you'll just wind up in red. They should of at least up'd her Soul Gauge damage like Angol Fear had.
It's still a shame that 66A and 66B mix ups are so risky, 66B has slight tracking, and you have a bit of breathing room on block, along with the former. I'd love to bait a guaranteed block to throw in 44B mix ups but it's back to the drawing board, I'm tired of 214B, it's not safe enough.
One of my biggest problems with 3B is that it doesn't escape tracking verticals as well at 214B did. No more than 7B's use against Night's ans Sieg's along other long verticals, can't quite parachute you to safety from an attack on block.
There's a lot of times I've landed a 66A 66B, and eaten claymore and rapier sandwiches going backward with 7B.
I know it's about gauging your opponents reactions in the end, but you can't turtle with a passive aggressive character in a game that promotes pressure, you'll just wind up in red. They should of at least up'd her Soul Gauge damage like Angol Fear had.
S0ULA55A51N
[09] Warrior
2K ist not side steppabel and on advantage it's not backsteppable at kissing range. 3K should be side steppable; I mean look at the animation... Ivy isn't mitsu.
Of course there is risk to it... it's a mix-up lol. 66A and 66B is at least safe (-8 on block). If 66B would track to both sides they should have just made 66A a mid. 66A is still an awesome move, at close range it beats back and side step, gives KND and even gives at block awesome pseudo frame trap/ evasive opportunities (4K, 4A, 214B, 3B, 3A, 2A, 1K, 22_88B, 22_88K, 22_88A, 7_8_9A_B_K, 4A+B, 8A+BB, JG, backdash).
Seems like you undertsand that this game declines turtling to a degree, so what's the point in upping her Soul Gauge? That would contradict SP intention for this game. Btw what's "a passive aggressive character"? The term is contradicting itself.
Synalon
[12] Conqueror
The point, I think, is that Soul Calibur doesn't have to be ultra-aggressive or to punish more defensive strategies. There are a variety of reasons why the developer's intentions - if that's even what they were - may have been wrong.
A character whose 'aggression' comes more from reacting to what other characters do, rather than from just being quick rushdown.
Synalon
[12] Conqueror
I don't know. Maybe? It just seems like an obvious way of describing a character who is more defensive.
S0ULA55A51N
[09] Warrior
Well imo that's a matter of opinion. I haven't played the other SC parts on a high lvl, so my opninion might not be of any value, but I enjoy this game a lot.
Thanks for the explanation, never heard of that term^^.
Synalon
[12] Conqueror
Oh, of course. Some people prefer it aggressive like this. I love this game, and I main Viola, so I've certainly benefited.
Oh, as Bushindu so eloquently noted, it's not a technical term, it's just clear what the guy meant. ^_^
Edit: Umm...why is the text linking to some site called leo? Is it some advertising thing to fund 8wayrun?
Edit2: Oh, it's a translation site...?
S0ULA55A51N
[09] Warrior
XD No, I've got some spelling issues when it comes to English so I just copied the word "opinion" from that site. Didn't know it would link to that dictionary site though.
Synalon
[12] Conqueror
So the decidedly non-truncated statement "bushindu is in proud possession of a propensity for perfunctory circumlocution" would be counterfactual?
Synalon
[12] Conqueror
Well that doesn't answer my question at all
SwordGluttony
[08] Mercenary
Don't feed the troll, he's already diabetic.
SwordGluttony
[08] Mercenary
Does 1B BE force stand? I've been training with Ivy this morning with Astaroth set as crouch, there are times I can grab him during one of the hit animations of 1b BE, is it matter of timing? Can anyone confirm this?
Also, does step guard actually work in this game going towards your opponent? Because I'm dash cancelling into guard a la other Caliburs via guard, just not sideways or backwards>
I -CAN- do it backwards and she just faintly puts up her guard, kinda like a JG frame going backwards, but I'm tapping G like I'm taking out a Metal Slug boss.
Also, does step guard actually work in this game going towards your opponent? Because I'm dash cancelling into guard a la other Caliburs via guard, just not sideways or backwards>
I -CAN- do it backwards and she just faintly puts up her guard, kinda like a JG frame going backwards, but I'm tapping G like I'm taking out a Metal Slug boss.
S0ULA55A51N
[09] Warrior
Yep 1B BE forces on hit the opponent to stand for 16f after it's impact frames or else 1B BE,66K wouldn't combo. A normal throw is 17f; so it shouldn't be possible to grab the opponent after 1B BE on hit, when he immediately ducks. I tried it on Asta, NM, Sieg, Yoshi and Ivy. They all duck the grab.
It works forwards.
That's an interesting found. I don't really think this is usable during a real game though, cuz you need to be mashing G like crazy in order to do backstep G. And for the aesthetics: it looks unbelievable dumb.
Edit: I think this should be placed in the FAQ/ general discussion thread.
SwordGluttony
[08] Mercenary
So if a normal throw is 17F, would her AG ABK SS be a frame or two faster connected?
I had Astaroth set to crouch while I was practicing with CS and it caught him once or twice when I did 1b BE, SCIV style. Maybe it's because he's such a big target.
Ah I figured you could forwards.
And yeah, it looks ridiculous, haven't tried to see if it had any use as of yet. Maybe when I get off work.
Agreed, wasn't too sure where I should put all of those inquiries, post and forum wise.
Ah and I have to say thank you, you gave me some tips on some things I can do inbetween 28284666 and BG, like being able to tap guard inbetween.
I can now buffer 2828 inside BB and 4666/3k into Calamity. So thank you. I can embed Calamity inside my pokes.
I had Astaroth set to crouch while I was practicing with CS and it caught him once or twice when I did 1b BE, SCIV style. Maybe it's because he's such a big target.
Ah I figured you could forwards.
And yeah, it looks ridiculous, haven't tried to see if it had any use as of yet. Maybe when I get off work.
Agreed, wasn't too sure where I should put all of those inquiries, post and forum wise.
Ah and I have to say thank you, you gave me some tips on some things I can do inbetween 28284666 and BG, like being able to tap guard inbetween.
I can now buffer 2828 inside BB and 4666/3k into Calamity. So thank you. I can embed Calamity inside my pokes.