Ivy matchups discussion and strategies

WhYYZ said:
Why?
Click to expand...

Well, 2K will duck punish SET BBB and 6B8 will interrupt the last hit (trades). 9B will get you out of most SET 6B+K set ups. 214B is not punishable by Viola. I think she only gets about 25 damage from punishing 1K. It's very easy to space her with Ivy. And Ivy actually does have a better range game IMO. It's probably not a HUGE advantage because of Viola's massive damage potential, but I think it's still a tiny bit in Ivy's favor. It's actually just a pretty strange MU if you think about it.

Also, Viola does not have 50/50 ToDs because SET 6B+K > 1K > B+K BE only (and rarely) combos near walls. The general rule is not to duck during her SET 6B+K
 
S0ULA55A51N said:
If the ZWEI player starts delaying 1(B) or 4(A) 88_22K will tech-crouch/tech-step both of them.
1(B) of ZWEI gets interrupted by 1K regardless of delay.
You can just backstep after ZWEI's 4(A) EIN will whiff.
Click to expand...

I think doing 1K/22_88K isn't worth it, you're risking way to much (since everything depends on how much 1(B) and 4(A) are delayed). 1B and 4A can be both stepped/ducked on reaction, imo it's the safest way to deal with those moves =) I have read Belial's guide for ZWEI, and it seems he has a lot of "JF Timings" with his delayed moves, and they can beat any tech step moves in the game with a proper timing.
 
^My bad, I thought 22_88K was an exception cause I still couldn't find the right timing with 1B to beat that move with ZWEI. But why do you think ducking after 1(B) is better than punishing with 1K? Am I missing something?

Edit: Of course the non delayed 1B beats Ivy 22_88K
 
Just that if you duck 1(B) you get free a FC 1(B) ( as long as 1B wasn't delayed a lot). So you get a lot more damage, but 1K is still guaranteed, so that can of course be a better option.

As for 4(A), it seems ZWEI benefits from the fact that in SCV moves re-track when opponent cancels side step into an attack. So a lot of step>whiff punish attempts can be countered with delayed 4[A], of course timing is different for every move though the risk is still there... if we always backdash we get nothing. You gotta risk sometimes.
 
just to make it clear there are always ways around delayed EIN as well as always ways for ZWEI to get around your sidesteps. its more of a gamble. but thing is that with 4A] for example if you want to punish 4A] fastest realest you have to step-atack quickly and that can be beaten by specific hold timings.
The general rule is, if EIN hitbox interlace with your hitbox you get hit regardless how far off axis you are.
 
KineticClash said:
snip
Click to expand...

No Viola player with a braincell will EVER finish SET BB or SET AA against Ivy because it's easily ducked and is punished hard. Ivy can punish with FC 1B. Also SET 6B+K is 20 frames it's not safe against ANY character if you have the reaction speed. The amount of times I got 236B out of empty SET 6 B+K is hilarious.
SET 6B+K should be used at advantage or during wake-up other than that it's useless.

Also never ducking will result in a SET 6B+K 1K spam. I've won games by just spamming that same crap over and over and over and over again. And yes, getting a controller to the head hurts.

S0ULA55A51N said:
I guess that's what my mindset is lacking, cuz I always go for the safest option -.-'.
Click to expand...

I'm the exact opposite that's why I like playing against you. It's usually a close match even though the round are far from close. :P
 
Nope, you cannot punish SET BBB and SET AAB with FC 1B.

I have yet to see anyone react to 6B+K and interrupt the next move (usually 3A, 6B, 2A or throw) consistently. Most people can't even GI the orb yet... so unless you like to attack at frame disadvantage or you just anticipate it, it's very hard to interrupt.

If you don't duck against SET 6B+K, you will eat like 35 dmg dmg. If you duck, it's 100-115 meterless, and 150-240 if she has meter. Not to mention, even if you block 1K, Viola is again at frame advantage so it's another mix-up. There is no reliable way to deal with her 6B+K mix-ups. She can also delay the next attack making it non-GIable (though she loses the frame advantage that way)
 
Exactly what Ring said.

SET BBB is NOT punishable by most characters, so 90% of the time a Viola can use SET BBB with little fear (haha, fear) of being punished. In addition, they can mix this up with SET BB > sidestep or SET BB > backdash to dodge and punish any TCs.

I'm assuming you're describing Pyrrha's 236B when you talk about punishing SET 6B+K. This would mean you're reacting to SET 6B+K less than 6 frames after it was preformed... humanly impossible. If you're talking about using 236B in prediction of SET 6B+K... Viola can always fake you out and get a free launch punish.

If you meant Ivy's 214B, then you are not punishing SET 6B+K at all. In fact, you're relying on the fact that Viola will use a linear attack after SET 6B+K. However, she can always use 2A or 3A to get 140-240 dmg, or she can block and possibly get 44A BE or 3B off the hit stun from the orb.

However, Ivy still has lots of options against Viola because she's such an evasive character. 7B, 214B, 3B, 1K, and even 44B will help.
 
KineticClash said:
Exactly what Ring said.

SET BBB is NOT punishable by most characters, so 90% of the time a Viola can use SET BBB with little fear (haha, fear) of being punished. In addition, they can mix this up with SET BB > sidestep or SET BB > backdash to dodge and punish any TCs.
Click to expand...

I'm assuming that SET BBB is not punishable because you have to anticipate the last B, you can't wait to see it happen, then punish.

Or, do you mean the SET BBB can't always be punished by FC, 1B depending on range?

I know close up SET BBB Ivy can 3B interrupt the orb for a CH launch... but there you've got to guess they'll do the third hit.
 
Evan said:
I'm assuming that SET BBB is not punishable because you have to anticipate the last B, you can't wait to see it happen, then punish.

Or, do you mean the SET BBB can't always be punished by FC, 1B depending on range?

I know close up SET BBB Ivy can 3B interrupt the orb for a CH launch... but there you've got to guess they'll do the third hit.
Click to expand...

No, SET BBB cannot be punished by anything other than Ivy 2K or 2A. It is only about -15 even when TC'd.
 
Ring said:
Nope, you cannot punish SET BBB and SET AAB with FC 1B.

I have yet to see anyone react to 6B+K and interrupt the next move (usually 3A, 6B, 2A or throw) consistently. Most people can't even GI the orb yet... so unless you like to attack at frame disadvantage or you just anticipate it, it's very hard to interrupt.

If you don't duck against SET 6B+K, you will eat like 35 dmg dmg. If you duck, it's 100-115 meterless, and 150-240 if she has meter. Not to mention, even if you block 1K, Viola is again at frame advantage so it's another mix-up. There is no reliable way to deal with her 6B+K mix-ups. She can also delay the next attack making it non-GIable (though she loses the frame advantage that way)
Click to expand...
I like this post. And THANK YOU! I mean the move set 6B+K comes out in what 20 frames right? not a move u can react to.....I laugh when people say u can simply just 2A out of it lol...no it's always anticipation and there is no good reliable way...which is I don't bother go to the viola forums anymore and discuss it with them.
 
Evan said:
Huh... I could swear that I've duck punished it. Maybe I caught them moving or doing something stupid.
Click to expand...
SET BBB gives Viola frame advantage on block, so it's not really surprising that a lot of Viola players keep attacking.
JustinAkatsuki said:
I like this post. And THANK YOU! I mean the move set 6B+K comes out in what 20 frames right? not a move u can react to.....I laugh when people say u can simply just 2A out of it lol...no it's always anticipation and there is no good reliable way...which is I don't bother go to the viola forums anymore and discuss it with them.
Click to expand...
With 6B+K, the orb comes out in like 40 frames or so. But she cannot block for 20 frames. So to those 20 frames you have to add the speed of the move she's about to do next, for example i15 3A. So, 20+15 = i35. This is the speed 3A comes out after 6B+K. But if you want to interrupt it with, say 2A, you have to react in like 21 frames. It's not far from blocking Mitsu's 2KB BE on reaction = close to impossible if you ask me, even though theoretically it can be doable.
 
That's why a lot of the time I try 7B. Get you out of 3A's range, jumps over 2A and 1K, and avoids being combo'd from 6B. If Viola decides to block, you are out of range for most combo options.
 
Anyone having trouble with Seigy? Well, I have a little advice for you.. Seigy is known for his 3b start-ups so just 3b or 214b out of it. But be careful if your using 3b, Seigy can 2/8 b+k out off it. Using this move versus a high level play can cost you the match, especially if the person has Ivy background knowledge. But happily, I have done testing versus him and 214b is your best option because Ivy can practically spam the move. So if he does 3(b)~kBE, 214b after 3(b) or after the first hit in kBE. But there is more things that Seigy have and Ivy can interrupt it, but this is all I have for now..
 
I just backstep his 3B and whiff punish. My gameplay against Sieg is moslty based on block and whiff punish and lot of 3B. I don't really think that this is a bad match-up for Ivy. I even believe it's in Ivys favor. But don't think that my opininion is viable, cuz there are only few ppl, who can give a viable opinion about match-ups and tiers imo and I'm not one of them.

Edit: moved this and the post before it into this thread.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom