seyfer
[10] Knight
Omg I forgot that. Editing.
Just Attacks
- Thread starter Discoprophet
- Start date
b4k4
[10] Knight
1./ People complain about Alpha's execution because his BnBs contain 5 JFs, not one or two :P. (I'm also a Yoshi player, trust me it's night and day).
2./ Pad or stick? On stick I customized my layout specifically for ag:B inputs, and have been quite consistent with it since. To answer your question about how it works: all three buttons, four frames or less, and no two can be pressed simultaneously.
3./ A thread with consolidated info on JFs and techniques will be created and stickied at the top of this forum soon.
b4k4
[10] Knight
Hardest to Easiest...
1A: A: A
Two single frame input windows is definitively the hardest thing he has.
JF Twister
Requires a perfect 1 frame slide, so also very tight. Complex directional input exacerbates things.
ag:B
You get 4 frames for 3 buttons, so there's one frame of leniency here. On stick, I bound the three buttons next to guard on the bottom row to A G B (so my bottom row is G A G B). I can slide the "A G B" section with my thumb and nail this almost every time. This is more about technique than timing. Not so hard once you get a good layout for it.
1B:B
FC3B:B (BE)
BT B+K:B
These are all tied in my mind. The windows are wider (2-3 frames, I believe?) making them much easier to execute.
Honorable mention to the 214B+G -> JF Twister -> JF Twister combo. There are only two frames after the throw to get the perfect twister knockdown into another twister, and because you have to wait much longer after the throw input, you can't get a rhythm for this the same way you can with the other strings.
1A: A: A
Two single frame input windows is definitively the hardest thing he has.
JF Twister
Requires a perfect 1 frame slide, so also very tight. Complex directional input exacerbates things.
ag:B
You get 4 frames for 3 buttons, so there's one frame of leniency here. On stick, I bound the three buttons next to guard on the bottom row to A G B (so my bottom row is G A G B). I can slide the "A G B" section with my thumb and nail this almost every time. This is more about technique than timing. Not so hard once you get a good layout for it.
1B:B
FC3B:B (BE)
BT B+K:B
These are all tied in my mind. The windows are wider (2-3 frames, I believe?) making them much easier to execute.
Honorable mention to the 214B+G -> JF Twister -> JF Twister combo. There are only two frames after the throw to get the perfect twister knockdown into another twister, and because you have to wait much longer after the throw input, you can't get a rhythm for this the same way you can with the other strings.
DrDogg
[09] Warrior
Thanks for the input. It looks like for ag:B I need to change the layout of my stick, which I really don't want to do. It doesn't seem like it's make or break to his game, so am I really losing out if I don't bother with the JF version of this?
MyNameIsE
[08] Mercenary
You don't need to change the layout of your stick. I have a technique which I call opening hand method which I'll record tomorrow where it works for me the majority of the time but it will take some practicing to get use to.
Senzait
Steamed Buns!!
Not at all trying to question your knowledge but are you absolutely sure of this? I dont think JF umbrella in SC4 was a 1 frame slide and neither was iMCF but twister seems about the same speed as them, if not easier.
My list (Hardest to easiest) [UPDATED]:
ag: B
1A: A: A
1B: B
FC 3B: B
JF Twister
BT B+K: B
To be perfectly honest for some reason his JF's seem much easier to me than Setsuka used to be. This could just be my opinion of course.
manoftheleaf
[08] Mercenary
I don't think this technique is make or break. On terms I would compare it to Kazuya's CH df+2, EWGF xxx combos. Difficult to do, its a destructive technique, but most of the time not viable. Unlike JF Twisters (Umbrella), which is essential just like EWGF.
Lemonforce
[09] Warrior
Hardest to easiest:
JF twister - i have most trouble doing these consistently or at all also with finding the proper balance between pressure of the button presses and the speed of the slide. like sometimes ill do the slide really fast and still not get the jf but press A lighter and get it while seemingly sliding slower
1A: A: A - not really that "hard" as the 2 jfs have the same timing its just getting it down to muscle memory
ag:B - actually quite easy to pull off since any combination button that has B (A+B, B+G, B+K, A+B+K) will give you the move so for example i slide from A to G (default mappings) then press my B+K button (L2) and get it 90% of the time
1B: B - no real explanation needed takes a lil practice but not too hard
BT B+K: B - not really hard it is quite easy however it is very situation and thus not used much also has very simple timing that takes very little practice
FC 3B: B - actually has the same timing as BT B+K: B so both are equally easy in execution i find most trouble with this is when using it in a combo mentally making sure im not pressing the :B part too fast when buffering out FC 3B
JF twister - i have most trouble doing these consistently or at all also with finding the proper balance between pressure of the button presses and the speed of the slide. like sometimes ill do the slide really fast and still not get the jf but press A lighter and get it while seemingly sliding slower
1A: A: A - not really that "hard" as the 2 jfs have the same timing its just getting it down to muscle memory
ag:B - actually quite easy to pull off since any combination button that has B (A+B, B+G, B+K, A+B+K) will give you the move so for example i slide from A to G (default mappings) then press my B+K button (L2) and get it 90% of the time
1B: B - no real explanation needed takes a lil practice but not too hard
BT B+K: B - not really hard it is quite easy however it is very situation and thus not used much also has very simple timing that takes very little practice
FC 3B: B - actually has the same timing as BT B+K: B so both are equally easy in execution i find most trouble with this is when using it in a combo mentally making sure im not pressing the :B part too fast when buffering out FC 3B
Kane
oh riri
for me - easiest to hardest:
1 - twister
2 - 1bb
3 - 2143bb
4 - agb
5 - 1aaa
1 - twister
2 - 1bb
3 - 2143bb
4 - agb
5 - 1aaa
Shenrei
[09] Warrior
Easiest to hardest for me:
1. FC3B:B / BT B+K:B
2. 1B:B / 1A
A
3. 1B:B after 1B:B
4. JF Twister after 2A BE
5. JF Twister after FC3B:B
6. JF Twister after JF Twister / JF Twister after 214B+G
1. FC3B:B / BT B+K:B
2. 1B:B / 1A
A3. 1B:B after 1B:B
4. JF Twister after 2A BE
5. JF Twister after FC3B:B
6. JF Twister after JF Twister / JF Twister after 214B+G
LazyBrave
[08] Mercenary
I'm getting the timing for 1AAA better now, thanks Starscream for the 150 bpm and music tips! I can do it 80% of the time while concentrating on the timing with my eyes closed, but when I have to pay attention to other things, like my opponent lol, I start to panic and mess up. Guess I need a few more hours in training for it to become muscle memory.
4 questions, now. Sorry for the long post.
1. I'm learning the JFs in the wrong order though. I'm learning 1AAA first because the music tip was what worked best for me. So the 1AAA JF has a slower tempo than his others at 150 bpm, right? Does anyone have a beat or some music to his 1B:B and 2143B:B? I did check the soundcloud file but it's harder for me without music at first.
2. When doing his 2143B:B BE, do you press the BE immediately after the B like any other BE?
3. So to do JF twister, I can't be holding A when I press the B right? When I'm in training mode though, the inputs say that's what I'm doing (the A isn't blacked out when I press the B), but I'm still getting a normal twister. Am I not sliding it fast enough or something?
4. So his timing is similar to Setsuka's right? Are 4 and Broken Destiny's timing the exact same?
4 questions, now. Sorry for the long post.
1. I'm learning the JFs in the wrong order though. I'm learning 1AAA first because the music tip was what worked best for me. So the 1AAA JF has a slower tempo than his others at 150 bpm, right? Does anyone have a beat or some music to his 1B:B and 2143B:B? I did check the soundcloud file but it's harder for me without music at first.
2. When doing his 2143B:B BE, do you press the BE immediately after the B like any other BE?
3. So to do JF twister, I can't be holding A when I press the B right? When I'm in training mode though, the inputs say that's what I'm doing (the A isn't blacked out when I press the B), but I'm still getting a normal twister. Am I not sliding it fast enough or something?
4. So his timing is similar to Setsuka's right? Are 4 and Broken Destiny's timing the exact same?
b4k4
[10] Knight
A beat would be less useful for these because there isn't a rhythm of 3 attacks. Just watch the screen: Alpha's blade flashes white on the frame you want to do the input. For these two JFs, you want to hit the second input AS the first input is hitting on screen. Exact same moment (at least in my experience, this works for me). FC 3B:B is faster than 1B:B.
No. In fact, there is a longer delay between the second and third than the first and second button press. The input for this BE is a JF itself, albeit one with a lax window (at least 3 frames?). Again, time this with the moment the second attack is about to connect. The input is really FC3B:B : BE.
What controller are you using, and what technique? What you've observed is true: you actually CAN produce a JF Twister even with the system registering simultaneous A and B inputs, but it is a million times easier to slide the input, rather than piano it (in my experience).
Couldn't tell you with this one, haven't played BD. My understanding is that they're the same, but someone may wish to correct me.
LazyBrave
[08] Mercenary
Ah, ok. Thanks for clarifying the 1B:B and FC 3B:B. I've yet to notice a timing difference between the two but I can't do them consistently yet. I'll keep working on them.
Thanks for clarifying on the BE, I was wondering why I couldn't get the third hit out.
I'm using the standard PS3 controller. What I'm doing is just sliding from the square to the triangle button since that's the most reliable method for me to pull off normal twisters. I also noticed the buffering technique that's been mentioned a few times, where the twister is always JF if you do the 214 while in recovery, but when I pull it off it's a fluke.
I'm practicing on BD since I don't have access to a TV for most of the day, so hopefully someone will clarify this.
Thanks for clarifying on the BE, I was wondering why I couldn't get the third hit out.
I'm using the standard PS3 controller. What I'm doing is just sliding from the square to the triangle button since that's the most reliable method for me to pull off normal twisters. I also noticed the buffering technique that's been mentioned a few times, where the twister is always JF if you do the 214 while in recovery, but when I pull it off it's a fluke.
I'm practicing on BD since I don't have access to a TV for most of the day, so hopefully someone will clarify this.
Steven_a
The Alpha
you can buffer 214 in any move to do a JF twister? I have to test this
b4k4
[10] Knight
This needs to be clarified:
You can buffer the 2143 part of the input. You still need to hit a:B once you're out of hit/block stun/recovery animations. It still requires a tight JF input, but you can buffer the 214 3 motion.
You can buffer 214 and 236 into the recovery of any move, and go immediately into the respective stances, or FC/8WR moves.
Steven_a
The Alpha
thanks for the explanation i've been hit JF twisters more than usual now that i know that 2143 can be buffered
CheeseOfTheDay
[10] Knight
you can even buffer 2143A in recovery and then just a timing B, I was doing it this way in sc3 and 4 an stick, still nice method if you don't like very fast slides.
Steven_a
The Alpha
really? i guess i will try 2143A then.
CheeseOfTheDay
[10] Knight
Sure try it.
But i can tell you its was way better in sc3 times where was no online and all tourneys was played on crt tv's. Then you could just learn this 1 frame input for B and you could do it everywhere. If you play online where are different timings then it's better to learn fast slide method that you can do an any input lag.
But i can tell you its was way better in sc3 times where was no online and all tourneys was played on crt tv's. Then you could just learn this 1 frame input for B and you could do it everywhere. If you play online where are different timings then it's better to learn fast slide method that you can do an any input lag.
b4k4
[10] Knight
I dunno Cheese, I don't think this technique works in SCV (re: 2143a buffering).
If I'm in training mode and do 214B+G, and then try the JFT, JFT follow up, a common error if I screw it up us this:
214B+G, FC3B
Now, I'm still entering 214B+G, 2143a:B, as I can see my inputs being displayed. If what you are saying is true, then so long as I did these inputs, I should always get JFT, and never get FC3B. The fact that FC3B comes out when the buffer input being displayed by the game is 2143a:B tells me that you cannot buffer the entire sequence. I'm fairly sure the a:B part cannot be buffered at all, and must be inputted on the first frame you exit your previous animation and arrive back in neutral.
Additionally, I think this is because of the way the game engine functions. When you do a JFT, really what you're getting is the start of an FC 2A's animation, being canceled immediately into JFT. The game starts animating the 2A as soon as you've done the 2143a part of the input. After that, you input the :B, and then the game cancels the FC 2A into FC3a:B.
The reason I mention this is to establish the following: I believe you must cancel the 2A animation in order to obtain a JFT. This happens so fast you don't see it happen, but I'm thinking about this from the perspective of how the game engine actually registers this.
Now, let's apply my assertion back to the situation at hand. 214B+G, JFT, JFT. If a 2143a could be buffered, then FC3B would never come out in this situation. So why does 2143a:B turn into 2143B if it's all buffered? Because the FC2A animation never gets to start if the whole input is buffered. You hit neutral and go right into an FC3B instead.
Anyhow, I didn't design the game engine, I just play a lot of Alpha. Based on my own observations of the way this move functions, and my deductions based on those observations, I do not believe you can buffer 2143a, and instead can only buffer the 2143.
If I'm in training mode and do 214B+G, and then try the JFT, JFT follow up, a common error if I screw it up us this:
214B+G, FC3B
Now, I'm still entering 214B+G, 2143a:B, as I can see my inputs being displayed. If what you are saying is true, then so long as I did these inputs, I should always get JFT, and never get FC3B. The fact that FC3B comes out when the buffer input being displayed by the game is 2143a:B tells me that you cannot buffer the entire sequence. I'm fairly sure the a:B part cannot be buffered at all, and must be inputted on the first frame you exit your previous animation and arrive back in neutral.
Additionally, I think this is because of the way the game engine functions. When you do a JFT, really what you're getting is the start of an FC 2A's animation, being canceled immediately into JFT. The game starts animating the 2A as soon as you've done the 2143a part of the input. After that, you input the :B, and then the game cancels the FC 2A into FC3a:B.
The reason I mention this is to establish the following: I believe you must cancel the 2A animation in order to obtain a JFT. This happens so fast you don't see it happen, but I'm thinking about this from the perspective of how the game engine actually registers this.
Now, let's apply my assertion back to the situation at hand. 214B+G, JFT, JFT. If a 2143a could be buffered, then FC3B would never come out in this situation. So why does 2143a:B turn into 2143B if it's all buffered? Because the FC2A animation never gets to start if the whole input is buffered. You hit neutral and go right into an FC3B instead.
Anyhow, I didn't design the game engine, I just play a lot of Alpha. Based on my own observations of the way this move functions, and my deductions based on those observations, I do not believe you can buffer 2143a, and instead can only buffer the 2143.