Leixia Matchup Chart Discussion Thread

Therenovator

[09] Warrior
i just thought i would post my perspective on leixia match up since no one has done so yet i will leave a brief explanation on the match ups i know fell free to correct or post your view.
leixia 5 vs 5 natsu (i feel leixia can match natsu for speed and cry baby really kills many of natsu's oki game)
leixia 6 vs 4 viola (this match is slightly in leixia favour as she can punish most of viola options and has many ways to evade violas pressure game)
leixia 5 vs 5 nightmare ( if you dont know the match up leixia will stuggle big time but once you learn you can 2a most of his GS transitions and punish GS A the match up is even or slightly in leixia favour 66b can easily counter k into back step 3b)
leixia 4 vs 6 mitsurugi (this match up maybe be even or in mitsu favour due to him being able to match leixia speed and have much better range and damage his 4b can be a problem but can be easily countered with 66b)
leixia 7 vs 3 ivy( ivy can be a problem for leixia just outside mid range but once leixia gets in its pretty grim for ivy so this is frimly in leixia favour)
leixia 6 vs 4 Astaroth(this match up despite the damage difference is firmly in leixia favour due to her having many tc and evading attacks she can escape most of astaroth throw traps and fc 3b to punish most of his throw attemps. once leixia starts her offense baiting the knee and punishing with 6kk will really give Astaroth fits.)
leixia 6 vs 4 Zwei
leixia 6 vs 4 omega pyrrha(omega pyrrha is a slow big character killer even though she has speed the fact leixia can punish DNS B and NS B quite easily really limits omega using those attacks as a poking tool omega pyrrha limited move set really puts this in leixia favour)
leixia 5 vs 5 pyrrha( this match up is pretty even who ever plays it safe normally wins )
leixia 6 vs 4 Yoshimitsu(yoshi can be a problem but once you know cry baby kills every oki game he has you will find this is firmly in leixia favour)
leixia 5 vs 5 xiba (leixia can really give xiba big problems once she gets in as xiba is fairly slow and cant punish well this match up may be in leixia favour or even not really had any problems vs xiba)
leixia 5 vs 5 Siegfried(Siegfried can be quite difficult for leixia but once leixia starts her offence he really hasnt got many answers but due to his great spacing and push back on his moves he steal is a threat)
leixia 5 vs 5 alpha pat(a good alpha pat can seem over whelming at first but once you know that he is very linear and has limited step killers plays in to leixia hands you will find leixia can match him very well once you get used to fighting him i would say this match up is even due to alpha pat being able to make up for his short comings in damage)
leixia 4 vs 6 hilde( this match up is in hilde favour due to her very strong mid to long range game she can really give leixia problems)
leixia 7 vs 3 rapheal(this is probably leixia easiest match her TC and evade attacks give raph huge problems)
leixia 6 vs 4 Aeon
leixia 7 vs 3 voldo (leixia 3b and FC 3b really give voldo problems his main tool 66b BE can be evaded by 1B+k in to a free back throw)
leixia 5 vs 5 cervantes(although he has crazy damage he stuggles vs leixia once she gets in close he has real problems and has to take risks)
lexia 4 vs 6 Algol(his zoning game can be hard for leixia to deal with but hes very unsafe and she can punish most of his good moves)
leixia 5 vs 5 tira
leixia 5 vs 5 patroklos(not really sure about this match up but ill put it as even)
leixia vs ezio(not sure at all)
leixia 6 vs 4 maxi
leixia vs dampierre(not sure)
 

Ring

Lay still now
I don't think Leixia vs Ivy is 7:3. It's more like 5:5 or with a slight Ivy advantage. Even in 1.01 it wasn't that bad for Ivy.
 

Kalas

[13] Hero
Leixia vs Ivy is more like a 4:6 in my opinion. And you're right, I think it was even pre-patch.
I'd say that the patches pretty much decreased her advantage by 1 in each match-up (except for other chars Namco hates like Raphael).
 

FallenAngelII

[09] Warrior
I disagree on the following:
* Leixia vs. Natsu is not 5-5. Natsu kan easily punish pretty much every single move of Leixia's with several i11 moves. Gue (a.k.a. Crybaby) does not actually kill Natsu's Oki-game, only the Oki-game of Natsu's whose spacing sucks. A spaced 3A or whatever the hell that slow low is or bomb (either) will outrange Gue and nail Leixia and the 3A. Or just nails. 40-60, IMO.
* Leixia cannot punish well, ever, unless she spends meter. Unless Viola's constantly getting WR B BE combo'd, you'll never get more than a 2A or FC A when blocking lows or 3B/FC3B into whatever when TC:ing the crystal ball (and they'll stop falling for that after a few times). 45-55, at best.
* Nightmare's bullshit punch kills Leixia's entire game. It becomes a poking game. If Leixia does an unsafe move (of which almost every single one of her lows are), she eats a punch in the face or any other of Nightmare's fast pokes, many of which can combo. If she tries to go for frame traps or her "pressure"-game, she eats the punch. If Leixia does safe moves, well, it's a poking game. And Nightmare can deal massive damage from some pokes, Leixia can't. 35-65, maybe?
* Mitsurugi is better at Leixia at every single thing in the game. I'd say it's 30-70, at best.
* Ivy - I don't think this is 70-30 at all. 50-50, at best. It's not like Ivy can't deal with people up-close. She just lacks up-close pressure outside of BE's, but she can easily throw you out of range again.
* I'd say Leixia vs. Omega Pyrrha is 50-50. Leixia has better damage with meter (unless CE's are involved), but Pyrrha Omega has better damage in general. Their frames are generally the same.
* Leixia's Crybaby does not kill Yoshimitsu's Oki-game at all. He just has to range it better. Or use the copter for an instant low/mid mix-up, from which he can combo you.
* Your assesment of Cervantes is wrong, IMO. He doesn't have to take huge risks at all (he's safe from almost everything) and he has no problems with Leixia up close. He has a safe horizontal-vertical move (aB, I think) that will throw Leixia out of range for anything but a 3B/FC3B/6K. His WR game kills Leixia's oki-game outside of 3BB/3V/FC3B vs. 2K.
* I'd say Leixia has the leg up against Ezio. Quite gimmicky and linear, in my opinion.

But that's just what I think. I'm probably wrong on a lot of points.
 

ZeroEffect317

[13] Hero
Due to the recent posts, I decided to create a space for all of her matchup chart theory discussion. I'll update this with the most consistent opinons every so often. Keep in mind, the game is only a couple months old so this is still a premature chart for the time being.

Leixia vs:

Aeon - N/A
Algol - N/A
å-Patroklos - N/A
Astaroth - N/A
Cervantes - N/A
Dampierre - N/A
Ezio - N/A
Hilde - N/A
Ivy - N/A
Maxi - N/A
Mitsurugi - N/A
Natsu - N/A
Nightmare - N/A
Patroklos - N/A
Pyrrha - N/A
Pyrrha-Ω - N/A
Raphael - N/A
Siegfried - N/A
Tira - N/A
Viola - N/A
Voldo - N/A
Xiba - N/A
Yoshimitsu - N/A
ZWEI - N/A
 

ZeroEffect317

[13] Hero
My opinions so far. without using .5s

Aeon - 5/5
Algol - 3/7 (not sure on this one, but it feels kinda stupid)
å-Patroklos - 4/6
Astaroth - 5/5
Cervantes - 3/7 (Too much damage. Throws give combos, nowhere Lexy can dominate him on screen)
Dampierre - N/A
Ezio - 5/5 (Easy to fall into Ezio's best ranges, loses out in damage. Ezio can't contain her though)
Hilde - N/A
Ivy - 4/6 (maybe worse down the road)
Maxi - 6/4
Mitsurugi - 4/6 (definitely bad, but not the worst.)
Natsu - 5/5
Nightmare - 4/6 (ho-hum... damage and range. I'd say it's only a .5 short of even, but there's no .5s)
Patroklos - 5/5
Pyrrha - 5/5
Pyrrha-Ω - 5/5
Raphael - 6/4 (Raph doesn't do too bad in this match)
Siegfried - 5/5 (It might be Lexy's favor, but sieg's dmg and spacing somehow keep him in it)
Tira - 6/4 (might be even, but right now it feels like Leixia's favor)
Viola - 5/5 (Viola's a trainwreck like the rest of the projectile chars, Crybaby saves the match, imo)
Voldo - 6/4 (Voldo has damage and good pokes, but Lexy has better frames and 3B is safe)
Xiba - 5/5 (Whoever has the bigger life lead wins)
Yoshimitsu - 5/5 (maybe 6/4 down the road)
ZWEI - 6/4 (Only because Zwei players say so, I don't think she really gives him much trouble)
 

ZeroEffect317

[13] Hero
Crybaby does not do so well against Yoshi. Flea, dragonfly and super dragonfly all avoid it.
Actually, I think crybaby is pretty good against him for the sole reason that he can't force his UB setups. Even if he uses Flea, Dragonfly, etc. to avoid crybaby, he can't really hurt you for doing it. At best she gets a grounded hit for minimal damage, where most characters have to take big UB damage, or get up and face mixups.
 

Kalas

[13] Hero
Pyrrha-Ω - 5/5
Why do you think so? I don't think that this match-up has ever been even in SC5, not even before 1.02.
Maybe I'm just too traumatised because of daGOTTh, but I think that this one is 3:7 and one of her worst match-ups in the whole game.
 

ZeroEffect317

[13] Hero
Why do you think so? I don't think that this match-up has ever been even in SC5, not even before 1.02.
Maybe I'm just too traumatised because of daGOTTh, but I think that this one is 3:7 and one of her worst match-ups in the whole game.
This is just my opinion. I play this matchup a lot myself, and to me it feels like if you play it like most matchups (get in, move around, mix up, etc) omega will kill you in damage. But surprisingly, Omega isn't any better at mid to far range than Leixia is. So if you pick your spots from there, she can actually space omega quite well with 22A, 44A, 66B, 66K and the like.

Since you can punish both DNS A and B with 6KK, it makes it harder for her to use her best advancing tools freely. So if she needs to reach you she has 66B and 66A. (66A is AA punishable by Lex also)

66B is the real problem, imo, due to the frames on block and pushback. But even that move on it's own won't win this matchup because it's only spammable after a KND. Certain KNDs you can roll this move to one side. Otherwise, it's pretty easy to move around at range.

This is also one of the few matchups where 4A+B is decent. It can beat her best options from frame traps. (EX: If Omega does 4B, Leixia 4A+B will beat followup stab, 2A, AA, 66A, or 3A. I believe it evades her throw range too, but not 100% sure.)

Basically the key things to take advantage of are Omega's weakness to ranged movement, specifically sidestep, and to make her have to fight outside DNS A range as much as possible to stop her from rushing down with big damage. When I play this matchup, even when I know I can't trade damage with her, I never feel like Omega fully controls the flow of the match like say Cervantes, or Mitsurugi who have tools at every range to worry about.
 

FallenAngelII

[09] Warrior
Oprah is like Leixia. Same kind of moves (mid-mid-mid-mid, mediocre lows), same roughly the same frames on roughly the same moves, roughly the same throws, roughly the same range. Their differences are mostly cosmetic.

Except Nemesis Step is infinitely better than Spinning Bird not-Kick (B+K) and Oprah wins out in damage in pretty much every single department (individual moves, combos, pokes). It's like some kind of lesser Mitsurugi, who I still think should be more towards the 30-70 range than the 40-60 range. Oprah is 40-60, though. Since we're not dealing with 0.5s and all.
 

ZeroEffect317

[13] Hero
Haha, well it's apples and oranges really. The stances are for completely different purposes. You don't want to use "Spinning Bird not-Kick"(B+K) to move in like Omega does with NS. It's best used on wakeup since it actually has safe mixups, unlike NS with only highs and mids, (all unsafe too).

As I said, Leixia can't win in a slugfest, but her spacing tools are all safe where omega's mostly aren't at mid to far range. And their frames aren't really the same either. Leixia has an 11 frame AA, and a plus on hit low (WS A+B). All Omega's lows are negative on hit.
 

Kalas

[13] Hero
The good thing about Leixia in that match-up is her safeness. Pyrrha Omega can't rely on blockpunishment here.

I agree with almost everything you mentioned Zero, but I still think Pyrrha Omega has the edge.
Yes, Leixia can space "safely" and punish NS A, and DNS B (only at closerange), but if you compare the damage...
I think that if they both did the same damage, it would be really well even. But it is not.

Iirc, Pyrrha Omega's 236B:4 does 55dmg + clean hit opportunity which is one point less than Leixias strongest NH in her whole moveset.

Of course, those are only numbers, and I can't really exlain it, but the damage difference is something you really feel in that match. As a Leixia player you're a lot more afraid to get hit by any of her moves than vice versa.
 

ZeroEffect317

[13] Hero
No, you're right. I agree about the damage difference. I guess my thing is, you almost kind of feel that in every matchup since her damage output is so small. I feel the damage difference against Voldo and Xiba too, but I think Leixia can go even or beat them as well. Lol, I don't think anyone is afraid to get hit by Leixia. She punishes the most unsafe moves in the game with 41 dmg. But she's a momentum killer.

Imo, the people that really give Leixia trouble are ones who can control more space than her with fast moves. Even worse if they evade or TC. Damage really helps, but I feel like as long as she's free to move around and evade, Leixia can always stay in the match. To be honest, the only move I fear at all from her is DNS A. And that's when she has a CE ready.

Again, though, I could be wrong. I never played daGOTTh so maybe he knows something I don't. Even then, he might just be a better player than me so it wouldn't prove much.
 

Ring

Lay still now
I think Lieixia shines when it comes to block punishing in this matchup, you can AA/6KK basically after everything Omega does. Most of her best moves (except 66B and a few more) are punishable, so you can always gain initiative with the frame advantage you get from punishing.

This isn't Sophitia anymore. It's just a shadow of her. I had this mindset since the beginning and it has helped me tremendously in this matchup (especially with Ivy)
 

ZeroEffect317

[13] Hero
This isn't Sophitia anymore. It's just a shadow of her. I had this mindset since the beginning and it has helped me tremendously in this matchup (especially with Ivy)
Lol, I'm sure the people fighting against Leixia are saying the same thing. "This isn't Xianghua anymore".

But yeah, we seem to agree on the same things about this matchup pretty much.
 

Kalas

[13] Hero
Lol, I don't think anyone is afraid to get hit by Leixia.
Yeah, you got a point there. I guess it's not very smart to bring the damage-argument in every match-up, because she lacks it against everyone. It's just so stupid to me. :)
And you're right about the "player" argument. We shouldn't say "I got beaten up by XYZ, so it must be a bad matchup". But I didn't mean to say that anyway. I just wanted to let you know that I know this matchup kind of well.

Lol if my results spoke for the match-up ranking, Leixia vs Alpha would be 7:3, wouldn't it docvizzo? :P

I can see everybody's point of view, but I'm still not really convinced of an even fight.