Leixia next patch 1.04 update???

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I wish they used that move too. On hit we could transfer into BHH stuff and go for a mixup with the new 22K/kA and 22B.


So, what about the other two suggestions?
 
AKNova7 said:
Delete your patches so you go back to 1.0, then while using Leixia, face Pyrrha. Throw out a 1B/2B, then WS B. Have Pyrrha set to Block as first action, then 236B on second action. Watch what happens.
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Age_of_Truth said:
The evasion is actually quite a lot worse now. You can often be hit by attacks that track to the right, like Xiba's.

However the 1f evasion was a bit much as it could be used to completely destroy certain mix-ups. Not so different to a few OP TC moves that some other characters have... it's a tough one.
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Ok. Fair points. I get that it was a staple of hers to be able to negate these other mixups.

But I guess I look at it this way; Lets say in AKNova's example Pyrrha doesn't do stab and does a horizontal high instead. You ducked, you go past it, and launch her for... less damage than she gets off of 3B~stab? Or maybe you read a throw and you did a quick duck WS B to punish... I dunno.

That big blue 85 was so nice to look at in training mode. felt worth it to spend the bar.
 
ZeroEffect317 said:
Ok. Fair points. I get that it was a staple of hers to be able to negate these other mixups.

But I guess I look at it this way; Lets say in AKNova's example Pyrrha doesn't do stab and does a horizontal high instead. You ducked, you go past it, and launch her for... less damage than she gets off of 3B~stab? Or maybe you read a throw and you did a quick duck WS B to punish... I dunno.

That big blue 85 was so nice to look at in training mode. felt worth it to spend the bar.
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Yeah, but that's not what Leixia was made for. Small damage buffs on normal moves is worth not having 85 damage for that move. 70 is enough for said type of character and immediate evasiveness back.
 
WuHT said:
3
Retreat moves (4B / 44B)

Doesn't she have an auto GI available ? It does pretty well against most verticals that would be around i20 that could reach her to punish (and if they delay their punishment, then you'd have a mixup of whether you did 44B4 or 44B). I agree that mitsu's 4B is absurd, especially since you bring up the hard numbers.
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The aGI is slowish to come out and only aGIs a very limited number of move types. It's also a giant reverse mix-up for her after 44B. Either she 4s for the aGI or she doesn't. Both leave her ridiculously open if read.

And the damage is laughable.
 
The aGI is slowish to come out and only aGIs a very limited number of move types. It's also a giant reverse mix-up for her after 44B. Either she 4s for the aGI or she doesn't. Both leave her ridiculously open if read.

And the damage is laughable.[/quote]

There isn't an easily accessible resource regarding leixia's aGIs here is there?

The wiki shows it aGI's all weapon attacks (and yet you say it is a limited number of movetypes) as well as leixia retreating backwards (which can limit the options an opponent does). I don't have the frame numbers, but I know that it can handle at least i16 to i20 retaliations.

While the opponent reading either you 44B4 vs 44B, it does limit the number of frames that can be used as reactionary punishment frames, which means the move is safer than "-22" some of the times.
EmptySky00 said:
Ya I don't know why they hit damage for stuff like 44B and 4K(12? Really?)
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its -2 on block, i15, decent range for i15 move, sends them flying on both NH and CH, and seems to catch steppers reliably. Lots of good leixia properties except damage. I highly doubt you would choose to use 4K as a big fat combo damage dealer as opposed to a low risk poke that can break momentum and cause ambiguity on block.
 
It did more in SCIV <_< It wasn't even broken then. I don't see why they had to shave off the 5ish damage. 12 is pathetic. I didn't say it should do 40.
 
WuHT said:
The wiki shows it aGI's all weapon attacks (and yet you say it is a limited number of movetypes) as well as leixia retreating backwards (which can limit the options an opponent does). I don't have the frame numbers, but I know that it can handle at least i16 to i20 retaliations.
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On paper, your 44B vs 44B4 argument is true... but it doesn't really work as well in play. It doesn't GI horizontals at all... only verticals and upward kicks. Even then a decent ranged BB with speed (like Pyrrha's/Ivy's) will hit her before the aGI starts. Leixia, herself, can 6KK it before the aGI starts. Characters with fast, ranged/advancing horizontals (Sieg/NM agA, etc) will beat it. So there's almost no point in ever using 44B4, unless she whiffs 44B and someone wants a launch punish.

4K is a great tool, but it's not really much midscreen until she gets CE. Even then, CE is better used after launches or CH 66BB. And a large part of 4K not being used as much is because of the low damage, actually. You're better off catching step with CH AAB at the same range for 41, or AA(BE) for 59.
 
WuHT said:
There isn't an easily accessible resource regarding leixia's aGIs here is there?

The wiki shows it aGI's all weapon attacks (and yet you say it is a limited number of movetypes) as well as leixia retreating backwards (which can limit the options an opponent does). I don't have the frame numbers, but I know that it can handle at least i16 to i20 retaliations.

While the opponent reading either you 44B4 vs 44B, it does limit the number of frames that can be used as reactionary punishment frames, which means the move is safer than "-22" some of the times.

its -2 on block, i15, decent range for i15 move, sends them flying on both NH and CH, and seems to catch steppers reliably. Lots of good leixia properties except damage. I highly doubt you would choose to use 4K as a big fat combo damage dealer as opposed to a low risk poke that can break momentum and cause ambiguity on block.
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4A+B beats out all the major 14-frame punishers you might know about. From Alpha's FC3aB, to Mitsurugi's 236B, to Raphael's 236B and even Pyrrha's, Omega's and Pat's 236Bs.

It's also capable of shutting down mid horizontals like Nightmare's 22AA, Astaroth's 44A and others. After a successful aGI, you can CE. Depends on your distance of course. 4A+B also has some evasive properties on it that can make it a useful evade.

Laughing Her Bea Hua, aka the aGI in 44B4, 66B4, etc. Is mainly used to stop verticals. The hitbox is a bit weird, but a successful aGI drags the opponent close enough to Leixia for a throw/mix-up/CE.

4K is basically a punisher that's fast enough to hit someone that decides to step while at a frame disadvantage. For example, you can use it against a Patroklos who decides to 66B then step. 4K will catch. Normally, Leixia's fast punishers are mostly linear. 4K happens to be a fast horizontal punisher against close range targets.


I've decided to move Leixia from bottom-mid to low-tier, though probably an "upper-low" as it were. The main thrust is this: when Leixia fights an opponent, its dangerous for her when she guesses wrong. When an opponent fights Leixia, its not too dangerous when they guess wrong. Combine this with all the flaws and holes in her offense, difficulty getting in and handling back-dashers among other things, she's got nothing major to really show for it.

Sure, you can force your opponent to get a Quake Step GB and then hit them with AA BE. Only by the time Leixia swings that last hit, it will be GI'ed or aGI'ed. Or the opponent blocks and you're at 0-frames against your enemy (an advantage, maybe?) But its a gimmick, and so much of her stuff is riding on gimmicks that won't work against knowledgeable players.

Of course, this is my personal tiering. Feel free to disagree.
 
WuHT said:
There isn't an easily accessible resource regarding leixia's aGIs here is there?

The wiki shows it aGI's all weapon attacks (and yet you say it is a limited number of movetypes) as well as leixia retreating backwards...
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Actually, that's not what the Wiki says. Unless someone just edited it just now.

WuHT said:
(which can limit the options an opponent does). I don't have the frame numbers, but I know that it can handle at least i16 to i20 retaliations.
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I'm pretty sure it's slower than i16 on block. I've had people launch me after blocking it despite 4:ing.
 
ZeroEffect317 said:
Even then a decent ranged BB with speed (like Pyrrha's/Ivy's) will hit her before the aGI starts. Leixia, herself, can 6KK it before the aGI starts. Characters with fast, ranged/advancing horizontals (Sieg/NM agA, etc) will beat it..
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Sounds to me eating a BB or a a:GA is better than the opponent taking advantage of +22 frames if you didnt do the aGI input.

Not saying everyone's retreat thrust should be as strong as mitsu (-12 safe pretty much).
 
i just experimented with leixia's 7,8,9K. mostly 9K of course. but at close range is a really effective move. mix it in with step killers like 3AA and 3 A+B and she can be a frustrating poker.
 
EmptySky00 said:
What can punish Mitsu's 4B aside from CE? The pushback is effing retarded. And tracking.
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You can't really punish it on block. If you have a feeling it's coming, 8wayrun around him and hit him with 33BB or 22B launch as soon as he whiffs.

The best counter is to use 4A+B auto-GI just before it hits you - you can do this on reaction as well. Not easy though unless your opponent is really predictable. Anticipation always helps.
 
WuHT said:
Sounds to me eating a BB or a a:GA is better than the opponent taking advantage of +22 frames if you didnt do the aGI input.
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Pyrrha/Omega stabs work too. But yeah, those were just examples of moves off the top of my head that'll beat 44B regardless of aGI. I mean... I'm sure if I really wanted to I could make a list of all the stronger moves in the game that'll work, but my point was 44B4 on block doesn't really help a whole lot.
 
ZeroEffect317 said:
Pyrrha/Omega stabs work too. But yeah, those were just examples of moves off the top of my head that'll beat 44B regardless of aGI. I mean... I'm sure if I really wanted to I could make a list of all the stronger moves in the game that'll work, but my point was 44B4 on block doesn't really help a whole lot.
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To add to this, people here are suggesting things like "well the aGI makes it safer than straight up -22" but remember that if your opponent guesses you will use the aGI, they get way more than 22 frames to hit you with virtually anything they want. It's not completely useless (because it's a free launch now, unlike in previous games) but it requires a mistake form your opponent to use effectively.

On a side note I did once aGI Siegfried's CE with it haha
 
Age_of_Truth said:
On a side note I did once aGI Siegfried's CE with it haha
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wat.


Personally, I find the retreating aGI more annoying than useful. One of my common shenanigans is to use something like 66B bB, then follow up with 4B B when I know my opponent is scared to step. Sometimes the 4 in 4B B turns into 66B bB4 instead and I completely waste a break attack's advantage. It's my fault and all that, but it's irritating nonetheless.
 
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