Leixia next patch 1.04 update???

[Sacharja]

The numbers for Siegs 25% combo are correct, actually. That is if you do the delayed SCH K BE into aA.

 

[Kalas]

And concerning Guard Burst, I'd like you to have a look at that:

Spoiler: strongest follow-up without meter (everything on CH)

I don't if these combos are really the strongest, but it's definitely Leixia's strongest option:

Aeon 33B ~ BT B+K ~ 9B+K ~ 44BAA = 99dmg
Algol 44B ~ 66B+K = 95dmg
Alpha Patroklos 2363B ~ JFT ~ JFT = between 100-110dmg depending on JF's and cleanhits, but I guess he has stronger combos anyway...
Astaroth 6B ~ 22K ~ 22B = 83dmg (sometimes 66[K] ~ 22B connects for 98dmg)
Cervantes iGDR ~ iGDR ~ iGDR = 113dmg
Ezio 44K ~ 1BBB ~ 3B = 79dmg
Hilde 22B ~ C2 B ~ G ~ C3 A ~ 2K = 97dmg (102dmg w/ clean hit)
Ivy 22(B) ~ 5Hit JF = more than 80dmg, don't know the exact number
Leixia 8B+K ~ BT B+K ~ 33BB = 69dmg
Maxi 236K ~ 1K = 83dmg
Mitsurugi 236(B) ~ 1B = 89dmg or iFC 1BB ~ 33_99BB = 93dmg
Natsu iWS K ~ 6A+B ~ PO A:6 ~ 3KKK ~ 1A = 96dmg
Nightmare GS B6 ~ GS B6 ~ GS K = 99dmg
Patroklos 66B ~ 66B+K ~ 66A+B = 90dmg
Pyrrha 4B ~ 66B+KAB ~ 236B = 95dmg or 22K ~ 236B:4 = about 85dmg
Pyrrha Omega 66B+KAB ~ DNS B = 96dmg
Raphael 66(B) ~ Prep A+B = 61dmg (Seriously, is that his strongest combo possible?!)
Siegfried 3(B) ~ SCH B = 72dmg (81dmg w/ clean hit)
Tira GS 4BB ~ 4A ~ 4K ~ 4K ~ 666B = 95dmg or GS 3B ~ 4A ~ 4K ~ 666B = 93dmg
Tira JS 4A ~ 4K (switch) ~ GS 3B ~ 4A ~ 4K ~ 666B = 99dmg
Tira JS 66B ~ 4A ~ 4K = 51dmg
Viola with Orb 66B ~ 66A+B = 64dmg
Viola without Orb 3B ~ AAB ~ 66B ~ 66A+B = 77dmg (81dmg w/ clean hit)
Voldo - I have no idea and I'm too lazy, but probably more than 80dmg
Xiba 66BBB ~ 3kB = 84dmg
Yoshimitsu 1K ~ 8A = 84dmg (93dmg w/ clean hit)
ZWEI 66A+B ~ 4[A+B] = 94dmg

As you can see, the only character that does less damage off a guard burst is Raphael. And Leixia doesn't even do 70dmg.

When you say: "OMG, Leixia's guard burst is so good!" Keep in mind that "good" guard burst does not only include how fast they are, but also how strong the combo is.

If I did another list with the combos everyone gets with 1 meter used, Leixia is the weakest character BY FAR. Because Leixia's BE's are AA BE and WS B BE and none of them combos into anything except for AA BE after 44[A], but that's only possible after three moves at closerange. That's why her strongest combo would still be 8B+K BT B+K 3B because no other BE-combo does more damage.

That's also something you have to take into consideration when you say that Leixia doesn't do a lot of damage because her guard burst is "soooo good".

 

[Synraii]

Alpha Patroklos can do 33B, 2143B:B JF Twister, JF Twister and score more damage than listed.
(111 with no clean hits)
You can also do 2143A+B, 33B, 2143B:B, JF Twister, JF Twister.
(114 with no clean hits)

Nice damage, Leixia!

 

[Kalas]

Yeah, I know there was something better, but that was not my point.

Just want to make people realize that "good guard burst moves" is not the same as "good guard burst damage" which people always forget to mention when talking about the guard-burst-killer-machine Leixia.

 

[Synraii]

The thing is though, Leixia is a character who in a longer match (2-2 final round scenario, 5 round total) can viably get 2 guard bursts from base offence. Not a lot of characters can boast that. (Then again, the last time I played you was before Leixia got raped and left in the corner, so it may not be the case now, lol.)

 

[EmptySky00]

I think her guard bursting is a lot weaker now to be honest. She can still do it, but her guard burst potency has dwindled because of the patch.

 

[maxedcrew]

What I want to know is why Natsu stayed relatively similar to Taki with many buffs, but Leixia digressed from Xianghua's style of play so harshly. Over the course of the series, Xianghua stayed the same. In SC4 she was still pretty good at high-midtier, but they started making her a little too different from her previous style. SXS was a neat idea but proved to be utterly useless and easy to predict. The idea of charges was not needed and the removal of her normal move cancels was a big blow to how she was normally used. Now in SC5 we have a character with none of Xinghua's useful moves, and an even more stupid feint system.

To me it breaks down like this. I think Xianghua in SC4 could have had the damage output Leixia has now ONLY because Xianghua had a very strong moveset. High, mid, low and everything in between, she had many moves to use that were useful and almost each one had at least another different followup.

In conclusion, I feel if Namco decides to stick with the low damage output, its acceptable IF AND ONLY IF Leixia has the tools that allow her to pressure, mixup, and be evasive. If they continue to refuse to change her movelist, which is the most probable, then please give her damage buffs that make sense. The damage buffs really only need to be placed on moves used in staple combos, or on slow singular hit/pokes. (Example: Leixia---> FC3B, 3B+K = 48 damage / Xianghua---> FC3B, 66B+K = well into the 50's maybe 58?)

The Leixia patch formula example:
44B= more evasive OR 44B= same evasive property but more damage (more similar to xianghua)

 

[ChaosK]

What people don't give leixia credit for when they compare her to former xianghua versions though, is that she has better range now.

 

[maxedcrew]

What people don't give leixia credit for when they compare her to former xianghua versions though, is that she has better range now.

True but again Xianghua had tools! Her 66A reached across the map haha. Besides that her range was short but not too bad. Again its a trade off but her range does not make up for Leixia's many other flaws unfortunately.

 

[WuHT]

Did myself a favour and removed thenovator's unconstructive and antagonizing posts.

What people don't give leixia credit for when they compare her to former xianghua versions though, is that she has better range now.

This may seem odd, but has leixia users tried using a CAS that is smaller (but higher power)? Play style wise, do they like the slight range increase at the expense of power, or trying out a harder-hitting but shorter range character? Obviously defensively she'll benefit if she uses a small CAS but i'm asking about offense.

So everybody who disagrees with me or is a follower of the "Leixia-players-are-all-whiny-scrubs"-party:
This is your chance. I gave you numbers. I gave you facts. Tell me what I'm missing and why my complaint is not justified. I'm here.

Just to add fuel to the fire, some 3B's (like pat's) bursts the guard guage in 9 instead of the standard 12 (like leixia) which is kinda odd.

I agree that, in order to be considered strong at guard burst, your character should not only deal excellent guard burst meter damage, but has a good combo to take advantage of the burst-state.

About committing to a leixia damage buff off 3B staple combos and 44B: Logically the only thing I can think of is that I'd rather see her get buffs to properties outside of raw damage just so she'd fill her niche (imo) better. This is a good question, because the purpose of patch changes are generally to make minor adjustments (despite me thinking her lows are pretty pitiful, but those won't likely get buffed). I'm sure you guys have thought about it longer than I have, so maybe a damage buff (focused on a few core moves) would give the most immediate impact to boost her overall power.

I can't help but feel i'm forgetting something.

 

[docvizzo]

That Guard Break list doesnt make any sense at all, sorry Kalas. What is the point in listing the damage of characters that will never ever get a guard burst and then compare it to characters who will get a almost guaranteed guard burst every match? Then you come by and say "look she does less damage, her GB game isnt THAT good!!!."

Of course having a guard burst game with 70 DMG is way better than 115 DMG for characters who dont get a guard burst, isnt that obvious?

Alpha Patroklos, as retarded as he is, sure gets 120 WTF damage, but he will simply NEVER GET IT. Cause he has no Guard Burst Game. He will not get this number. It makes zero sense to compare those.

So if you compare Leixias GB Game to Alphas, then Leixias is worlds ahead. Cause Alphas is just a theoretical, completely pointless number. Getting 70 Damage for free every match is way better than never getting 120 DMG for free. You seem to make it look the other way with this list.

I'd change my Cervantes 100 DMG free Combo ANY DAY with your 70 DMG combo when i get the Guard Burst Game along with it.

I support a general small buff in her damage, but you guys are not doing this right when you create such lists. Her GB game is great i would say, of course she should do way less damage, since she is actually a character which can make you burst. Anything else would be stupid or not?

 

[ZeroEffect317]

I'd change my Cervantes 100 DMG free Combo ANY DAY with your 70 DMG combo when i get the Guard Burst Game along with it.

I disagree. GB to me is a last ditch effort. The only reason any Leixia player wants to work the guard gauge is to give her some kind of comeback potential at the end of a match. Whereas someone like Cervy for instance always has a comeback potential due to only needing 3 good reads a round with his damage.

Sure, she doesn't need to do 70+ off of launcher meterless. But every time you GB you want a kill or a RO. Her GB game was also nerfed a good bit even though it's still decent.

 

[Reave]

After a Guard Burst 8B+K, BT B+K sets up some nasty tech traps that can equal or exceed the damage on your list Kalas. That is if you can make them afraid of eating the iWsB BE. I think 69 damage is a fair trade off though I somehow get 71 damage?

 

[ZeroEffect317]

After a Guard Burst 8B+K, BT B+K sets up some nasty tech traps that can equal or exceed the damage on your list Kalas. That is if you can make them afraid of eating the iWsB BE. I think 69 damage is a fair trade off though I somehow get 71 damage?

Imo, you should only use 8B+K starter if you have no meter to spend on CE. Otherwise, just do 66BB~CE for 95. Of course if you get a 44K break or the like, use 44[A].

 

[ZeroEffect317]

At any rate, the issue with the GB thing is not really about the followup damage. It's about the fact that she NEEDS to rely on crushing guard to survive. The characters others mentioned like Cervantes or Alpha Pat, may have trouble getting breaks, but they can win without ever trying for it simply because of the damage output and risk/reward.

That's why she must have a great GB game, (she should probably have the strongest GB in the game, imo) given the fact that it's the only real way for her to open up any kind of gameplan. And if they don't end up buffing the GB, then we're back to the dmg argument.

 

[docvizzo]

I disagree. GB to me is a last ditch effort. The only reason any Leixia player wants to work the guard gauge is to give her some kind of comeback potential at the end of a match. Whereas someone like Cervy for instance always has a comeback potential due to only needing 3 good reads a round with his damage.

Sure, she doesn't need to do 70+ off of launcher meterless. But every time you GB you want a kill or a RO. Her GB game was also nerfed a good bit even though it's still decent.

I'd rather buff her otherwise, i still absolutely dislike Guard Burst mechanics. Pre Patch her Guard Burst game was one of the most retarded aspects in this game imo. Blinking red every round makes this game into a retarded gambling fest as soon you reached the point where any 3B killed you etc. It was 100% right to massively nerf her GB game.

Looking at the GB Game only (of course in general she cant be compared to top tiers), hers is still decent and enough imo.

I agree with her general weakness, but please please dont aks for better GB game :)

 

[Reave]

Imo, you should only use 8B+K starter if you have no meter to spend on CE. Otherwise, just do 66BB~CE for 95. Of course if you get a 44K break or the like, use 44[A].

Idk 8B+K, BT B+K seems like a pretty advantageous situation for her vs the raw damage option. Ex. If my back is next too the edge when I get the guard burst I can do 8B+K, BT B+K, 2G (to briefly fake like I'm going for iWsB BE) and 66 B+G too score a ring out. If they tech into a standing position the throw attempt can't be avoided by a duck or jump.

If they tech into 2B+K then you get 118 damage with just half a bar.

Not sure if this is known but with the combo 8B+K, BT B+K, 33BB I have gotten four different damage values. There is 69, 71, 75 and 77. It seems the direction you walk in+slight delay in input nets more damage. Instead of QS just hold 3 or 9 and walk a bit then input BB. Quick Stepping nearly always results in 69 damage occasionally 71 damage but no greater from the testing I did.

Same with a CH 66BB I think it was like 68 or something can't remember. Problem is the last hit whiffs when done that way unless your near a wall. Also there is a damage increase (132>>>148) in wall combos with 33BB as an ending. As far as I'm concerned any damage increase she can get is worth it.

 

[ZeroEffect317]

stuff about post GB and 33BB

Yeah, it's an idea. Certainly something I didn't think of.

The extra damage on 33BB is because you sometimes hit them on the ground side/back turned. This is character dependent due to hitboxes. Like Cervantes takes more damage from FC 3BB, 99BB on 1P side than FC 3BB, 33BB

 

[Kalas]

That Guard Break list doesnt make any sense at all, sorry Kalas. What is the point in listing the damage of characters that will never ever get a guard burst and then compare it to characters who will get a almost guaranteed guard burst every match? Then you come by and say "look she does less damage, her GB game isnt THAT good!!!."

Of course I know that she's more likely to get a guard burst than other characters, I just wanted to remind people that there are two sides of the medal. Imo, her guard burst game is good. She has a lot of set-ups and forced blocks but the lowest damage output besides Raphael. So, imo, it's ok, but nothing she exceeds in (not after the patch). So I don't really understand the argument that "she does low damage because she has good guard burst", because even with a guard burst she doesn't get the damage than some other characters get with their launchers.

I support a general small buff in her damage, but you guys are not doing this right when you create such lists. Her GB game is great i would say, of course she should do way less damage, since she is actually a character which can make you burst. Anything else would be stupid or not?

As I said, I did NOT create this list to ask for a stronger guard burst game: I want to make people realize that her guard burst game is not THAT good as everybody makes it look like. It's not something that safes her ass.

I just can't see a logic in making her normal damage so incredibly low for the sake of doing guard bursts fast. There are so many good characters in that game whose guard burst game is pretty much non-existent, but they are still way better characters than Leixia for having twice her normal damage. It does NOT compensate to only be safe and guard burst quickly. Good damage is so much more important than getting one free CH combo with Leixia in a match.

And if you say that you ALWAYS get guard bursted against Leixia you do something wrong doc. ;)

 

[docvizzo]

And if you say that you ALWAYS get guard bursted against Leixia you do something wrong doc. ;)

Well Hyrul stopped playing Leixia, Kayane plays Viola...not much Leixias left :) I play a french one called HadesBBC from time to time, he has a nice Leixia, but more focused of whiff punishing, punishing etc. No aggro player....but i still have a trauma from pre-patch :)

But to make it a fair comparison you should only compare it to chars who really can use GB effectively. I actually have a bit trouble with this. Which chars can really focus on this game aspect? Omega, Asta, Mitsu, Zwei, Sieg....hmmm who else?

So imo when people say she has a good GB game, they are right. It may not compensate for her other weaknesses, but the way it is is fine imo. She gets it more likely for less damage. Other chars get it rarely for bigger damage. Its well balanced.