Awestruck
[09] Warrior
What attacks do you not use enough or hardly ever use at all with Ivy? I know we all may think we use as much as possible but there's always one move we don't use much if at all.
Less-Used Moves
- Thread starter Awestruck
- Start date
Davo87
[09] Warrior
Attacks you don't use as much or not using eno
Usable and still finding more opportunities for effective usage:
SW 6A - theres lesser movement to derive it from looking like a throw. Could be deceptive.
WP FC 3B - A move to whip out once in a while when they start block standing from afar.
CL 33A - its hit properties arent good. Tho its considered safer option if ppl can punish WP 3A or WP 6AA.
6K - it TC nicely and give + on hit. Tho still a high.
WP 44A - Plus a million on block = mixup. Opponents 2A cannot duck under ur following instant A236A. if they do its CH and its guranteed damage.
Dont use much bcos they dont impress me:
CL/WP 44K - Theres no hitbox on the weapon. Its good for setting up wallcombos when upclose. Tho still too slow for postGI options.
CL 1A -not practical enough.
CL/WP 3K - This move lets me down very often. It cannot match SW 3K.
WP 4B - There are better moves for SG dmg then this one imo.
Usable and still finding more opportunities for effective usage:
SW 6A - theres lesser movement to derive it from looking like a throw. Could be deceptive.
WP FC 3B - A move to whip out once in a while when they start block standing from afar.
CL 33A - its hit properties arent good. Tho its considered safer option if ppl can punish WP 3A or WP 6AA.
6K - it TC nicely and give + on hit. Tho still a high.
WP 44A - Plus a million on block = mixup. Opponents 2A cannot duck under ur following instant A236A. if they do its CH and its guranteed damage.
Dont use much bcos they dont impress me:
CL/WP 44K - Theres no hitbox on the weapon. Its good for setting up wallcombos when upclose. Tho still too slow for postGI options.
CL 1A -not practical enough.
CL/WP 3K - This move lets me down very often. It cannot match SW 3K.
WP 4B - There are better moves for SG dmg then this one imo.
IvyFanboy
[11] Champion
Strategies to Seemingly Bad/Unsafe Ivy Moves?
So I have my bread and butter for Ivy mainly figured out but I can't help but want to have as much versatility and with Ivy having soooo many moves...some rather suck. But they must have some use?!?
So post your strategies of using seemingly bad/unsafe moves. Moves in mind:
CL 1A
CL 4A+B
WP 214A
WP 4A+B
cancels, mix ups, and set ups?
So I have my bread and butter for Ivy mainly figured out but I can't help but want to have as much versatility and with Ivy having soooo many moves...some rather suck. But they must have some use?!?
So post your strategies of using seemingly bad/unsafe moves. Moves in mind:
CL 1A
CL 4A+B
WP 214A
WP 4A+B
cancels, mix ups, and set ups?
MrCerebellum
[08] Mercenary
WP 6B,A+B - I ONLY use this as a follow up to CH CL 1A,A+K.
SW 66B - In SC3 it was 44B. Much more useful when somebody whiffed as you were trying to space.
SW 66K - not that its a bad move, I only seem to do it when in SE.
SW 6K - even in CH, it doesn't flip them backwards like it used to.
WP 6[A+B] - doesnt track like it used to.
SW 66B - In SC3 it was 44B. Much more useful when somebody whiffed as you were trying to space.
SW 66K - not that its a bad move, I only seem to do it when in SE.
SW 6K - even in CH, it doesn't flip them backwards like it used to.
WP 6[A+B] - doesnt track like it used to.
neoghaleon
[99] The Cow
coil 11_44_77A is such a useless move
I can't find anything to use it with
I can't find anything to use it with
teflon2105
[09] Warrior
Ivy useless moves
I been testing her cursed soul move and it just seems useless i can't find nothing too link it wit it doesn't setup anything. The only benefit it turns your opponent around i never see any ivy player use this move is it anyway too link this to something? But i notice these less used moves separates a good ivy from a great ivy.
I been testing her cursed soul move and it just seems useless i can't find nothing too link it wit it doesn't setup anything. The only benefit it turns your opponent around i never see any ivy player use this move is it anyway too link this to something? But i notice these less used moves separates a good ivy from a great ivy.
IvyFanboy
[11] Champion
Ivy useless moves
Some moves with ivy I feel are just plain bad and unusable. Occasionally you can throw them out as a "WTF", but you're just hopin to confuse the opponent and pray it works. Prime examples would be CL 4A+B, CL 1A.
CL 1A, is just bad. It's so situational and risky it's just never worth doing. There are better replacements. You're just not gonna see a good ivy use this.
Cl 4A+B, the only way it works is if you immediately cancel and take use of the WR or do some sort of twitch fake out. Letting the move do it's thing...it just won't land. I landed it once, and the opponent made a mistake and tried to step but hit the wall and he froze, complete fluke.
22A (cursed soul) isn't horrible, but I just don't use it. It's too slow for great use, but the dmg isn't bad, CF in 14, mid, safe, positive on hit. The main issue is there are just better options for whatever scenario you might use this. I can see a person trying to make use of the turnaround for a set up, but most Ivy's will prefer something better and more solid.
Also welcome to 8wayrun. You're gonna learn a lot here. You might need to learn our notation first (it's odd use used the move's name since it's not a staple). We have a newbie silencer (no offense, its just called that) that will explain our numbers and what not if you don't know it.
Some moves with ivy I feel are just plain bad and unusable. Occasionally you can throw them out as a "WTF", but you're just hopin to confuse the opponent and pray it works. Prime examples would be CL 4A+B, CL 1A.
CL 1A, is just bad. It's so situational and risky it's just never worth doing. There are better replacements. You're just not gonna see a good ivy use this.
Cl 4A+B, the only way it works is if you immediately cancel and take use of the WR or do some sort of twitch fake out. Letting the move do it's thing...it just won't land. I landed it once, and the opponent made a mistake and tried to step but hit the wall and he froze, complete fluke.
22A (cursed soul) isn't horrible, but I just don't use it. It's too slow for great use, but the dmg isn't bad, CF in 14, mid, safe, positive on hit. The main issue is there are just better options for whatever scenario you might use this. I can see a person trying to make use of the turnaround for a set up, but most Ivy's will prefer something better and more solid.
Also welcome to 8wayrun. You're gonna learn a lot here. You might need to learn our notation first (it's odd use used the move's name since it's not a staple). We have a newbie silencer (no offense, its just called that) that will explain our numbers and what not if you don't know it.
teflon2105
[09] Warrior
Ivy useless moves
I agree 22A just seems like a gimmick move it's also very unsafe like a lot of her less used moves someone like mitsu will punish her when she uses this move..... Thanks for the welcome and yes it is a ton of info in the Ivy thread lots of great knowledge here.
I agree 22A just seems like a gimmick move it's also very unsafe like a lot of her less used moves someone like mitsu will punish her when she uses this move..... Thanks for the welcome and yes it is a ton of info in the Ivy thread lots of great knowledge here.
IvyFanboy
[11] Champion
Ivy useless moves
Actually it's very safe. -7 on block. It can't be punished. Really it's only issue is it's speed. It's too slow and only reaps so much of a reward it makes it hard to justify the risk. of getting CH'd over it or wasting any frames you gained prior for only 28dmg.
however i can think of 1 application for it. If your are focusing on SG in SW mode, you could use it as an anti step on an opponent who plays defensively. It's safer than the ofter horizontal attacks with good SG dmg. So if it hits, it's fine, but you will intended for it to be blocked for SG. It's feeble, but it isn't a bad idea on all accounts. I MAY actually use this for those red flashing moments when a horizontal is appropriate.
Actually it's very safe. -7 on block. It can't be punished. Really it's only issue is it's speed. It's too slow and only reaps so much of a reward it makes it hard to justify the risk. of getting CH'd over it or wasting any frames you gained prior for only 28dmg.
however i can think of 1 application for it. If your are focusing on SG in SW mode, you could use it as an anti step on an opponent who plays defensively. It's safer than the ofter horizontal attacks with good SG dmg. So if it hits, it's fine, but you will intended for it to be blocked for SG. It's feeble, but it isn't a bad idea on all accounts. I MAY actually use this for those red flashing moments when a horizontal is appropriate.
Davo87
[09] Warrior
Ivy useless moves
WP 22A has its uses. Its slow but it catches ppl who try 8wayrun outside of WP 3A range. Its also great against Talim as she can WindSault over WP 3A, WP 6B+K but not WP 22A. Tho not so good against chars with fast ranged options like Zasalamel or fast closein type like Cass or Mitsu. Its a move used to put them at check a bit like WP 2A, WP WS A. To illustrate this if I were to scale her horizontal range from longest - 22A, 4A, 2A, 3A, WS A -shortest (I leftout 11A and 1A bcos they r that bad on block for a checking move. WP 2A is bad on block but atleast its fast.)
CL 1A> WP 3B+K rings out further than WP 22B. Tho price of this move is its hitting issues. Depending on what range even CH can be blocked. :(
Ill add to the list:
CL 44A is the most useless move by far, as its unsafe like SW 44A but lacks much useful properties by far. On hit it pushes them outside of grabrange.
CL/WP 1K, if I have 4K which TC, better in range and faster by a frame, other than being less predictable I wonder why use this move.
WP 22A has its uses. Its slow but it catches ppl who try 8wayrun outside of WP 3A range. Its also great against Talim as she can WindSault over WP 3A, WP 6B+K but not WP 22A. Tho not so good against chars with fast ranged options like Zasalamel or fast closein type like Cass or Mitsu. Its a move used to put them at check a bit like WP 2A, WP WS A. To illustrate this if I were to scale her horizontal range from longest - 22A, 4A, 2A, 3A, WS A -shortest (I leftout 11A and 1A bcos they r that bad on block for a checking move. WP 2A is bad on block but atleast its fast.)
CL 1A> WP 3B+K rings out further than WP 22B. Tho price of this move is its hitting issues. Depending on what range even CH can be blocked. :(
Ill add to the list:
CL 44A is the most useless move by far, as its unsafe like SW 44A but lacks much useful properties by far. On hit it pushes them outside of grabrange.
CL/WP 1K, if I have 4K which TC, better in range and faster by a frame, other than being less predictable I wonder why use this move.
Ring
Lay still now
Ivy useless moves
Davo, are you sure you mean CL 44A? Because from what I rememeber it's completely safe, and on hit/CH gives a spin stun (close to +10 advantage on CH), does not push them at all.
About useless moves:
CL 1A... The properties of this move are horrible. The best way to describe this move is that it's very risky, but very rewarding.
- Terrible TC frames
- aGI window starts late
- Small range and it backsteps, making the range even worse
- Negative on hit
- Slow
- Small damage on NH (10)
- Ivy will get hit on CH during 80% of this moves animation time.
- Unsafe (-17)
+ aGIs all lows and s-lows.
+ CH damage 85, aGI 75
+ Insane RO on CH/aGI
+ Hits grounded (pathetic damage though)
+ Can be positive on hit when the opponent gets hit at the end of the animation (rare)
You can aGI low attacks with this if you can read your opponent well, but apart from the damage and aGI there's nothing good about this move. Now something far more worse:
WP AA - this is what deserves a title of a "useless move". It's slower than WP 3A, has less range, hits high, disadvantage on hit and CH, nothing is guaranteed on CH. At least -16 on block. Christ! The only way to describe it is:
Davo, are you sure you mean CL 44A? Because from what I rememeber it's completely safe, and on hit/CH gives a spin stun (close to +10 advantage on CH), does not push them at all.
About useless moves:
CL 1A... The properties of this move are horrible. The best way to describe this move is that it's very risky, but very rewarding.
- Terrible TC frames
- aGI window starts late
- Small range and it backsteps, making the range even worse
- Negative on hit
- Slow
- Small damage on NH (10)
- Ivy will get hit on CH during 80% of this moves animation time.
- Unsafe (-17)
+ aGIs all lows and s-lows.
+ CH damage 85, aGI 75
+ Insane RO on CH/aGI
+ Hits grounded (pathetic damage though)
+ Can be positive on hit when the opponent gets hit at the end of the animation (rare)
You can aGI low attacks with this if you can read your opponent well, but apart from the damage and aGI there's nothing good about this move. Now something far more worse:
WP AA - this is what deserves a title of a "useless move". It's slower than WP 3A, has less range, hits high, disadvantage on hit and CH, nothing is guaranteed on CH. At least -16 on block. Christ! The only way to describe it is:
Davo87
[09] Warrior
Ivy useless moves
Nah CL 44A is punishable by Amy's 6BB, altho I did thought on block was as bad as SW 44A. Yes, it doesnt pushout.
Offtopic: Tho this leads me to question why we need another spin stun in Broken Destiny, bcos including WP 3A we have 3 spin stuns. If WP 3A's stun is like SW 44A I wont complain. XD
To add to the crappiness of WP AA, on tip hit, the 2nd hit will whiff.
Nah CL 44A is punishable by Amy's 6BB, altho I did thought on block was as bad as SW 44A. Yes, it doesnt pushout.
Offtopic: Tho this leads me to question why we need another spin stun in Broken Destiny, bcos including WP 3A we have 3 spin stuns. If WP 3A's stun is like SW 44A I wont complain. XD
To add to the crappiness of WP AA, on tip hit, the 2nd hit will whiff.
IvyFanboy
[11] Champion
Ivy useless moves
K I think ym list would go like this:
SW
4A
22A
44A (unless I'm having fun with that stupid 17 hit combo for shits and giggles)
CL
AA+K (better options and the cool neck AT just doesnt happen enough for me)
1A (Only good if you can predict it and at that point there are better options spare the RO)
4A (The fuck is with Ivy and negative on block guard impacts?!?)
44A
44BB (It works sometimes when it accidentally flies out, but on paper it's not good. I just personally don't use it since I have better options for the set ups i see this fit for. The only thing really going for it is the second B can catch people off guard if they handle it wrong)
1K (inferior to 4K unless you just want NEED the knockdown)
44K (better options)
4A+B
WP
AA
214A
4A
44BB (same excuse as CL BB)
3A+B
6A+B/[A+B] (UNLESS they are stuck in a corner, then by all means use it)
K I think ym list would go like this:
SW
4A
22A
44A (unless I'm having fun with that stupid 17 hit combo for shits and giggles)
CL
AA+K (better options and the cool neck AT just doesnt happen enough for me)
1A (Only good if you can predict it and at that point there are better options spare the RO)
4A (The fuck is with Ivy and negative on block guard impacts?!?)
44A
44BB (It works sometimes when it accidentally flies out, but on paper it's not good. I just personally don't use it since I have better options for the set ups i see this fit for. The only thing really going for it is the second B can catch people off guard if they handle it wrong)
1K (inferior to 4K unless you just want NEED the knockdown)
44K (better options)
4A+B
WP
AA
214A
4A
44BB (same excuse as CL BB)
3A+B
6A+B/[A+B] (UNLESS they are stuck in a corner, then by all means use it)
Davo87
[09] Warrior
Ivy useless moves
SW 22A or 88A, I made a post here (last post) about it has some offaxis properties on block: http://www.8wayrun.com/f29/sword-state-tips-t666/page3.html. I figure its not entirely useless as it can setup a whiff.
SW 44A, its sad it has no inbuilt step which was where it had some use back in SC3 and SC2.
WP 214A is good against certain matchups. Just need to look for an opening which they cannot duck after recovery. e.g: NM's GSB>GSA, anticipation of Zas' 4A or 44A. Both of these are moves they use from time to time. Just need to watch when they do.
WP 3A+B,B I mainly use for fishing for dmg when the opponent is turtling from long range. Tho tiny dmg and easily stepped so hardly ever think about it.
Edit: CL 4A is good for post GI. Tho nothing good on block or spacing compared to WP 1B or WP 3B.
WP 44BB mainly use on ukemi or techtraps. 44B+KB is the one u want to use as it combos and ROs.
SW 22A or 88A, I made a post here (last post) about it has some offaxis properties on block: http://www.8wayrun.com/f29/sword-state-tips-t666/page3.html. I figure its not entirely useless as it can setup a whiff.
SW 44A, its sad it has no inbuilt step which was where it had some use back in SC3 and SC2.
WP 214A is good against certain matchups. Just need to look for an opening which they cannot duck after recovery. e.g: NM's GSB>GSA, anticipation of Zas' 4A or 44A. Both of these are moves they use from time to time. Just need to watch when they do.
WP 3A+B,B I mainly use for fishing for dmg when the opponent is turtling from long range. Tho tiny dmg and easily stepped so hardly ever think about it.
Edit: CL 4A is good for post GI. Tho nothing good on block or spacing compared to WP 1B or WP 3B.
WP 44BB mainly use on ukemi or techtraps. 44B+KB is the one u want to use as it combos and ROs.
IvyFanboy
[11] Champion
Ivy useless moves
They're not terribly useless, I just never find myself aiming to use them since I orient around different options. My usual issue these is limited use or easy to counter. They have some usage, but unless you're a robot that can always use them perfectly like doing 214A under a slow high, I just don't see these as staples or something you would think to do beyond doing it on accident because you're locked in an 8wayrun and see a need to catch a side step or something or simply you couldn't think of something better. I use WP 6A+B some times and have to wonder why I just did it.
I'll eventually make a big "Project Ivy" that will be a revisit to my indepth frame data guide i made of all the forums info and include a section that will be all the best whiff and punish options ivy can get and we'll see what qualifies. 214A might have a great use as well as a few others i dont get love to.
They're not terribly useless, I just never find myself aiming to use them since I orient around different options. My usual issue these is limited use or easy to counter. They have some usage, but unless you're a robot that can always use them perfectly like doing 214A under a slow high, I just don't see these as staples or something you would think to do beyond doing it on accident because you're locked in an 8wayrun and see a need to catch a side step or something or simply you couldn't think of something better. I use WP 6A+B some times and have to wonder why I just did it.
I'll eventually make a big "Project Ivy" that will be a revisit to my indepth frame data guide i made of all the forums info and include a section that will be all the best whiff and punish options ivy can get and we'll see what qualifies. 214A might have a great use as well as a few others i dont get love to.
Davo87
[09] Warrior
Ivy useless moves
Ya, the indepth guide could use some updates. That thread should be stickied.
Ya, the indepth guide could use some updates. That thread should be stickied.
IvyFanboy
[11] Champion
Ivy useless moves
It was and for some reason the forums felt having the same infor spread over 7 threads was a better idea :P.
I want to update it but it's a lot of work and I do need to go back. I had an open wiki of it, but some dick messed it up for everyone day 1 by changing the password.
We need to transfer all that data to the official wiki anyway. It's got a lil less info than mine, but it's got the necessities and I feel it will be more approachable. So yeah, we should all pull together and complete the ivy wiki. I completed the A's not too long ago.
It was and for some reason the forums felt having the same infor spread over 7 threads was a better idea :P.
I want to update it but it's a lot of work and I do need to go back. I had an open wiki of it, but some dick messed it up for everyone day 1 by changing the password.
We need to transfer all that data to the official wiki anyway. It's got a lil less info than mine, but it's got the necessities and I feel it will be more approachable. So yeah, we should all pull together and complete the ivy wiki. I completed the A's not too long ago.
Rezildur
[09] Warrior
Ivy useless moves
CL 1A does have a really fun combo though, that looks AWESOME.
CL 1A CH A+K (to switch to whip) and then WP 6bA+B. It catches them in the air before they come back down and slices them like a razor saw.
Edit: Yes, I meant CL 1A
CL 1A does have a really fun combo though, that looks AWESOME.
CL 1A CH A+K (to switch to whip) and then WP 6bA+B. It catches them in the air before they come back down and slices them like a razor saw.
Edit: Yes, I meant CL 1A
Ring
Lay still now
Ivy useless moves
I think you mean CH CL 1A, not 4A.
I think you mean CH CL 1A, not 4A.