Making the switch from Special to Standard Vs.

There's not much you can do about that unless you are good enough to punish someone for using a cheesy ass tactic. Half the time I can punish someone. There's this one guy I always come across who always pick Astaroth and the stage with the cage so you can't get distance. Real lame.

I also hate that I am always at a disadvantage because I am starting a match instead of searching for one. I should be the one at the advantage.

The only other option is to not play ranked matches and do player matches. I do get alot of quality matches when records don't matter and can also work on technique, but playing against the same people online gets predictable and boring after a while.
 
Jlikew00t said:
Then play Player Match

Ranked is full of douchebags. Sometimes you will come across some great players...but it's pretty fucking rare.

You learn alot from them though. It creates great spacial awareness.
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This is true. I've gotten to where I'm incredibly aware of Astaroth and Kilik's BS, now. I see it coming from a mile away.
 
TrippalHealicks said:
Well, I just got beaten twice in a row by a mitsu ring-out thrower. He literally just ringed me out 3 times. Enjoy your 21 points, douche. I don't like this mode, already. People just do cheap shit, and that's annoying. I want to have fun, not be cheesed into a loss, repeatedly.
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So basically you don't like it because you can't auto impact and auto grapple break. Meaning you have to learn to actually do the skills of impacting ducking throws etc.

Sorry if i sound like an ass but insulting standard versus because you can't see some simple patterns is really not a good idea.

Also just FYI there is no cheap tactic in standard. Stuff may be annoying or harder to beat but it isn't like special where some characters can actually infinite or near infinite (never tested this) with null aerial control among other things.
 
SuicideBubbles said:
So basically you don't like it because you can't auto impact and auto grapple break. Meaning you have to learn to actually do the skills of impacting ducking throws etc.

Sorry if i sound like an ass but insulting standard versus because you can't see some simple patterns is really not a good idea.

Also just FYI there is no cheap tactic in standard. Stuff may be annoying or harder to beat but it isn't like special where some characters can actually infinite or near infinite (never tested this) with null aerial control among other things.
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I don't think you really understand what I mean. But, that's ok.
 
Then please explain because what i got from your post was: people in standard are cheap because Mitsu threw me three times and Lizardman spammed lows.

So if that is not what saying that meant then why post it at all? Not trying to start a fight but your reasoning has me confused.
 
RedDjinn said:
Seriously why does anyone think online would be just as good or even close to a tournament scene when it never has been before
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Well they do think that, and it's going to take intelligent, non-hostile approaches on our part to bring them over to offline play. Keep that in mind.

Helix, Mitsu only has one ring out throw, and it's an A break. With your back to the ring edge, you should be breaking A throws all the time. Hold guard and mash A if you need to. Of course online this will only work as well as the latency permits, but this is what you're dealing with online. There's nothing wrong with going for a ring out throw at the edge however, it's up to you to break it.
 
KowtowRobinson said:
Well they do think that, and it's going to take intelligent, non-hostile approaches on our part to bring them over to offline play. Keep that in mind.

Helix, Mitsu only has one ring out throw, and it's an A break. With your back to the ring edge, you should be breaking A throws all the time. Hold guard and mash A if you need to. Of course online this will only work as well as the latency permits, but this is what you're dealing with online. There's nothing wrong with going for a ring out throw at the edge however, it's up to you to break it.
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This is quite a sound strategy of retaliation, and I understand and agree with what you're saying, but I'm that player that thinks "ring outs" are effing gay, and honestly pretty cheap when done on purpose. I don't think I'm the only one that feels this way...there's gotta be some reason why you get 0 points for winning a round with a ring-out. I actually back away and let people get away from the edge of the ring, if and when I pressure them into it. I stop my attack and literally back away from them.

Unless of course it's a particularly "cheap and cheesy" opponent, then all's fair.
 
Then competitive play isn't for you.

Ask yourself this who's fault is it they/you are in that position theirs or yours? Chances are you/they either put you there or it was your/their poor movement that got them there. Either way it isn't cheap just your own inability to control where the fight is going.

Honestly also nobody would pass up a free ring out in a tourny so why do it online or in practice on local?
 
SuicideBubbles said:
Then competitive play isn't for you.
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This.

Have you read Playing To Win? It talks exactly about these kind of artificial rules you lay upon the game to measure up to whatever fabricated version you deem correct. Ring outs aren't the hardest feat to accomplish, but to do it to a good opponent would prove challenging due to the fact they are unlikely to ever let you space them like that to their disadvantage. If a certain move is constantly ringing you out, learn the counter. It usually takes about ten seconds in practice mode to figure it out.
 
TrippalHealicks said:
This is quite a sound strategy of retaliation, and I understand and agree with what you're saying, but I'm that player that thinks "ring outs" are effing gay, and honestly pretty cheap when done on purpose. I don't think I'm the only one that feels this way...there's gotta be some reason why you get 0 points for winning a round with a ring-out. I actually back away and let people get away from the edge of the ring, if and when I pressure them into it. I stop my attack and literally back away from them.

Unless of course it's a particularly "cheap and cheesy" opponent, then all's fair.
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Ring outs and positional awareness are a critical part of the Soulcalibur series. Kowtow beat me to mentioning the A-break, but to take it a step further, you need to know what your opponents are capable of throwing out and always expect the ring out attempt. For example, if you have Siegfried against the edge of the ring, expect him to throw out a FC 2B+G. Against Nightmare in the same situation, watch out for B+G. Astaroth, 63214B+G. If you're against the edge facing Siegfried, watch for A+G. Against Raphael, B+G. Mitsurugi, A+G. Knowing your opponent's moveset and options in any given time is extremely valuable and being able to win consistently requires applying that knowledge on a regular basis.

And you get 3 bonus points for a RO, not 0. (5 for KO, 7 for CF, 10 for perfect)
 
Malice said:
There's this one guy I always come across who always pick Astaroth and the stage with the cage so you can't get distance. Real lame.
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The cage stage is one of the worst stages for Astaroth. The player was probably choosing it because he thought it looked cool, or liked the concept.

The reason it is bad for Asta is because Asta needs space. If you read the Asta discussion pages Asta players favour moves that push the opponent back, because at range Asta is advantaged.

Asta is also Ring-out King of SCIV. He has so many moves that can end with the opponent being ringed out. You opponent was doing you a massive favour by choosing a stage where he couldn't ring you out straight away (at least not till the cage walls fall down).
 
TrippalHealicks said:
but I'm that player that thinks "ring outs" are effing gay, and honestly pretty cheap when done on purpose. I don't think I'm the only one that feels this way...there's gotta be some reason why you get 0 points for winning a round with a ring-out. I actually back away and let people get away from the edge of the ring, if and when I pressure them into it. I stop my attack and literally back away from them.
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When I lose by ring-out my first thoughts are "Where did I go wrong there?"

Then when the situation arises again, I see the potential danger, and avoid being ringed out in the future. Every character is capable of winning by ring-out. And every character is capable of avoiding being ringed out.

It is not any more cheap to win by ring-out than to win by hitting your opponent till their health reaches zero.

If two players of equal skill face each other, then all tools can be utilised and it still be good sportsmanship. Now if one player is immensely skilled and the other just a beginner then what techniques the skilled player uses could be decided by wanting to play with good sportsmanship. It is only in this case of skill-imbalance where I would consider anything 'cheap'.

When you are playing competitively, and someone has stepped up to the plate to play as at least your equal and also your potential conqueror, then I'm afraid nothing is 'cheap'. Anything goes, you are going to lose by any means necessary.
 
CHIP_STAXMAN said:
When I lose by ring-out my first thoughts are "Where did I go wrong there?"
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I agree. The only thing I don't undestand is why people find it necessary to jump out of the ring after they have achieved a ring out. Do they feel that their ring out was cheap and are trying to tell me it was unintentional? I got rung out, that's my mistake. I love baiting people into Yoshimitsu's Rainbow throw and getting the ring out, its your fault for letting me do it.
 
People jump out of the ring because misery loves company. You got rung out so you're miserable that you lost the round. They're just trying to be nice to you brendan.
 
TrippalHealicks said:
This is quite a sound strategy of retaliation, and I understand and agree with what you're saying, but I'm that player that thinks "ring outs" are effing gay, and honestly pretty cheap when done on purpose. I don't think I'm the only one that feels this way...there's gotta be some reason why you get 0 points for winning a round with a ring-out. I actually back away and let people get away from the edge of the ring, if and when I pressure them into it. I stop my attack and literally back away from them.

Unless of course it's a particularly "cheap and cheesy" opponent, then all's fair.
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Well this is something you'd have to overcome if you were interested in playing more competitively. Positioning and ring control are major elements in the overall strategy of any fighting game, aside from older Tekkens with infinite stages. Even in old 2d games, positioning in relation to the corners was important.

Playing fighting games competitively has a lot to do with controlling your opponent's options, while keeping your own as open as possible. If you manage to make effective use of moves to move your opponent around the stage, you can cut off some of his options by forcing him into dangerous ring out scenarios. No reason to back off, because they're far from defenseless, and being put in these scenarios is no guarantee that you'll ring them out, even if you're trying to.

I'll give you an example from Cervantes, who's my main. His A+G rings out forward, much like Mitsu. A player defending against this will most likely want to break A grabs to avoid being rung out. A possible solution to this on my part would be to use his command grab instead, which is a B break. This reverses our position in the ring, and puts my back to the edge, where I may choose to instant teleport from his Dread Charge stance, and change positions again, putting his back to the ring edge, and in another mixup.

None of that is set in stone, as the opponent always has options to deal with any of those. He could take a risk and break B if he thinks I may choose that throw, or if he's low on life and has to guess. He could wait until I teleport past him and attack me before I can force my offense again. He could side roll away from the ring edge, as well. All of these things are factors that have to be considered in higher levels of play.
 
I need to get better at grapple breaks. I do them often, but I don't know how it's happening. I thought it was because I tried to throw them at the same moment, mostly. If I'm on the edge and they're trying to Mitsu or Cervy throw me out, if I was able to break that throw, I wouldn't feel so helpless.
 
TrippalHealicks said:
I need to get better at grapple breaks. I do them often, but I don't know how it's happening. I thought it was because I tried to throw them at the same moment, mostly. If I'm on the edge and they're trying to Mitsu or Cervy throw me out, if I was able to break that throw, I wouldn't feel so helpless.
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Breaking throws online is one thing that REALLY is garbage.... cant count how many times i've broke the ring out throws and it doesnt give them to me.
 
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