Making use of crappy moves

[Solo]

I will admit, I love using those hops when I get a 2B+G ringout. Lol

 

[StSpider]

First person to find a practical use for BT NSS will get a lifetime supply of e-hugs and high-fives.

Only thing I can think of is having your back toward the opponent, for some reason opponent uses a move that leaps over your head and from NSS you can bA him/her out of the ring. That's all I can think of.

BTW I don't think AAB4 is completely uttely useless. Huge guard damage, relatively fast guard breaking move, it MIGHT catch someone off guard evey now and then since it's a very unlikely move to see.

 

[DeathInMyEyes]

66a+b does a crapload of guard damage and guarantees a WR B when it breaks.

BT NSS is a great gimmick. BT NSS ~ GS B catches a LOT of people off guard. BT NSS ~ GS ~ BT NSS ~ GS is a get away trick that is completely unsafe, but you still have that GS B option to hit aggressive opponents.

4A is duckable on reaction but is +2 on block and gives a very very good stun. Throw it out there to test your opponent - if they can't duck it, that's a free +2 for NM. Also, it works great post GI, same as SC4. Its also harder to duck now because its no longer a guard break.

66B+K is a decent TJ and TC move. For instance, you can TC some NSS K traps with 66B+K for extreme stylish points. The wall splat it gives is meh and its more disadvantage on block that it was in 4. The wakeup it gives when it hits grounded isn't that bad.

2B+K is a wtflol useless gimmick. I'll some times use it to watch my opponent duck, expecting the quake when there isn't one... but yeah. That's a stupid reason to use this move. Sadly, its about the only reason.

6B is a better punisher than 6K - use it to punish at -16 since its the same damage as 6K and yields better advantage on hit. Although, 6K has a chance of clean hit.

WR K is far from useless. The frames may be meh, but its still a good move in its own ways.

1aK is awesome. The fact I get hit with it so much is testament to that. Yes, 1(A) is easy to JG, but that's why you have half charge 1(A). Half charge 1A is much better on block than a regular 1A, so you get around JG and are less likely to get punished. 1A is not a gimmick - its a mixup, but not a reliable one. As far as I know, there's no single answer to this move unless your opponent can 2A 1a on reaction, and even then they'll have to be in makeout distance. GI might be a nuisance though, I haven't tested it.

2B+K, 22_88K and AAB are his only completely useless moves. And even then, 22_88K is sometimes worth the damage for its safety, the main problem being its whiffing issues. Still, it can be worth a try to use 22K since it guarantees 4K BE and a 1A tech trap.

AAB on the other hand.... well, at least its fun to kill scrubs with it.

Did I miss any?

 

[Engared]

66a+b does a crapload of guard damage and guarantees a WR B when it breaks.

BT NSS is a great gimmick. BT NSS ~ GS B catches a LOT of people off guard. BT NSS ~ GS ~ BT NSS ~ GS is a get away trick that is completely unsafe, but you still have that GS B option to hit aggressive opponents.

4A is duckable on reaction but is +2 on block and gives a very very good stun. Throw it out there to test your opponent - if they can't duck it, that's a free +2 for NM. Also, it works great post GI, same as SC4. Its also harder to duck now because its no longer a guard break.

66B+K is a decent TJ and TC move. For instance, you can TC some NSS K traps with 66B+K for extreme stylish points. The wall splat it gives is meh and its more disadvantage on block that it was in 4. The wakeup it gives when it hits grounded isn't that bad.

2B+K is a wtflol useless gimmick. I'll some times use it to watch my opponent duck, expecting the quake when there isn't one... but yeah. That's a stupid reason to use this move. Sadly, its about the only reason.

6B is a better punisher than 6K - use it to punish at -16 since its the same damage as 6K and yields better advantage on hit. Although, 6K has a chance of clean hit.

WR K is far from useless. The frames may be meh, but its still a good move in its own ways.

1aK is awesome. The fact I get hit with it so much is testament to that. Yes, 1(A) is easy to JG, but that's why you have half charge 1(A). Half charge 1A is much better on block than a regular 1A, so you get around JG and are less likely to get punished. 1A is not a gimmick - its a mixup, but not a reliable one. As far as I know, there's no single answer to this move unless your opponent can 2A 1a on reaction, and even then they'll have to be in makeout distance. GI might be a nuisance though, I haven't tested it.

2B+K, 22_88K and AAB are his only completely useless moves. And even then, 22_88K is sometimes worth the damage for its safety, the main problem being its whiffing issues. Still, it can be worth a try to use 22K since it guarantees 4K BE and a 1A tech trap.

AAB on the other hand.... well, at least its fun to kill scrubs with it.

Did I miss any?

Can 22K be used as part of the running mid/slide mix-up?

It might be a safer option than 33B. How much damage does it do at maximum?

4A is also useful against pull back moves such as Mitsu's 4B and Leixia 44B.

I have a ton of traps post 66B+K. That -4 frames makes it very, very useful.

 

[Goofy]

66a+b does a crapload of guard damage and guarantees a WR B when it breaks.

Yep.

BT NSS is a great gimmick. BT NSS ~ GS B catches a LOT of people off guard. BT NSS ~ GS ~ BT NSS ~ GS is a get away trick that is completely unsafe, but you still have that GS B option to hit aggressive opponents.

Lol. I'll still hold onto the hope of some hidden just frame :P

4A is duckable on reaction but is +2 on block and gives a very very good stun. Throw it out there to test your opponent - if they can't duck it, that's a free +2 for NM. Also, it works great post GI, same as SC4. Its also harder to duck now because its no longer a guard break.

This gets ducked 100% when I use it. Seems pretty useless to me.

66B+K is a decent TJ and TC move. For instance, you can TC some NSS K traps with 66B+K for extreme stylish points. The wall splat it gives is meh and its more disadvantage on block that it was in 4. The wakeup it gives when it hits grounded isn't that bad.

Don't find myself ever using this move. 9K/9B is more instinctual for a TJ and I've never really looked at it for TC properties o_O. Also the fact that it puts you at -8 right at their feet isn't very fun.

2B+K is a wtflol useless gimmick. I'll some times use it to watch my opponent duck, expecting the quake when there isn't one... but yeah. That's a stupid reason to use this move. Sadly, its about the only reason.

Agreed and call me crazy but, is there any actual use to the BE version? I can't see one. Is it the 8-9 frames? Guard gauge pressure? It's beyond easy to jump on reaction and unless there's some insane tech-trap/combo that I don't know about, I really don't see the purpose in this move.

6B is a better punisher than 6K - use it to punish at -16 since its the same damage as 6K and yields better advantage on hit. Although, 6K has a chance of clean hit.

6K is so instinctual for me while I only ever use 6B to follow-up a CH GS A. Wish they'd give it back the guaranteed NSS K follow-up or at least better frames on block. I liked using it as a baiting poke :(

WR K is far from useless. The frames may be meh, but its still a good move in its own ways.

Neutral on hit and -16 on block for a measly 22 damage seems silly to me. Wish they'd give it some sort of CH stun that guaranteed 2A+B or give it better frames on block/hit.

1aK is awesome. The fact I get hit with it so much is testament to that. Yes, 1(A) is easy to JG, but that's why you have half charge 1(A). Half charge 1A is much better on block than a regular 1A, so you get around JG and are less likely to get punished. 1A is not a gimmick - its a mixup, but not a reliable one. As far as I know, there's no single answer to this move unless your opponent can 2A 1a on reaction, and even then they'll have to be in makeout distance. GI might be a nuisance though, I haven't tested it.

I'm much more inclined to call it a gimmick. Haven't tested this half-charging thing but I imagine that can be trained to jG easily as well. Like I said, 9K's will beat out a 1aK if they react quickly enough. If they decide to wait and go for the easy jG then say hello to a meaty WR punish.

2B+K, 22_88K and AAB are his only completely useless moves. And even then, 22_88K is sometimes worth the damage for its safety, the main problem being its whiffing issues. Still, it can be worth a try to use 22K since it guarantees 4K BE and a 1A tech trap.

AAB on the other hand.... well, at least its fun to kill scrubs with it.

Never find myself using 22_88K, too slow and linear and the -10 on block with no gimmicky GS A follow-up isn't charming :( AAB is just hilarious, dunno how PS thought those moves would ever be used.

Did I miss any?

1) 3A2A: the only reason I could see this being "useful" is to deter people who like to jG 3AA but even then it's silly and the loss of the GS transition makes me sad.

2) 44_11_77A: I know it isn't useless but I never find myself using. Is there something notable or unique about this move? It just seems so slow and some of my friends are actually starting to jG it on reaction which is even more incentive not to use it.

3) 4BB: Slow, linear, easily jG-able, unsafe. Where's the use for this?

4) 1B: Slow, linear, unsafe. Sounds pretty useless to me.

 

[DeathInMyEyes]

Can 22K be used as part of the running mid/slide mix-up?

I have no idea actually. That might make it useful, but then 3b or 33B would be just as good, though it would be safer.

22K 4KBE:B is like 90ish damage? I'm not sure, I can't test right now. With 1A tech trap, should be half life at least. So yeah, maybe it would be better than 33b or 3b.

4A is also useful against pull back moves such as Mitsu's 4B and Leixia 44B.

Oh my god, you're a genious. I never though about that.

I have a ton of traps post 66B+K. That -4 frames makes it very, very useful.

Its -8 though D=

This gets ducked 100% when I use it. Seems pretty useless to me

Like I said, use it as a tester. If they can duck it, don't use it.

Don't find myself ever using this move. 9K/9B is more instinctual for a TJ and I've never really looked at it for TC properties o_O. Also the fact that it puts you at -8 right at their feet isn't very fun.

I agree. I'd rather default to 9K or 9B instead of 66b+k - but in stances where you KNOW 66b+k can be used as a TJ or TC, then its really, really nifty.

Agreed and call me crazy but, is there any actual use to the BE version? I can't see one. Is it the 8-9 frames? Guard gauge pressure? It's beyond easy to jump on reaction and unless there's some insane tech-trap/combo that I don't know about, I really don't see the purpose in this move.

God yes. 2b+kBEis a wonderful wakeup tool. For instance, after 2a+b. If your opponent rolls, 2b+kBE is a force block. If they do nothing, they can interrupt you, but if your opponent has the balls to wake up into an attack after 2a+b, god help them. And I don't know about you, but a good Nightmare at +8-9 frames is scary as hell. As for jumping 2b+k - you really shouldn't be throwing it out there at neutral. But if you do, and your opponent jumps with 9 instead of 7 or 8, then there's this really stupid hitbox on 2b+k that will airhit them for a ground stun.

Neutral on hit and -16 on block for a measly 22 damage seems silly to me. Wish they'd give it some sort of CH stun that guaranteed 2A+B or give it better frames on block/hit.

Thing is, its i14. It can punish blocked 2Ks. That right there is something magical.

I'm much more inclined to call it a gimmick. Haven't tested this half-charging thing but I imagine that can be trained to jG easily as well. Like I said, 9K's will beat out a 1aK if they react quickly enough. If they decide to wait and go for the easy jG then say hello to a meaty WR punish.

Well, yes, a properly timed 9k will beat a 1aK at neutral... but then, you should be using this at neutral. You should be using it on wakeup. If your opponent is getting up and 9King, then a short charged 1a will beat their jump where a 1aK would lose. And the thing about JGing half charged 1A is if they mistime their JG, they can't JG again for 20+ frames... meaning you can mixup up half charge and full charge. If they JG the half charge, they're forced to bock the full charge and vice versa. If they guess right, you're getting your ass handed to you though. But since when has Nightmare not been about gambles?

1) 3A2A: the only reason I could see this being "useful" is to deter people who like to jG 3AA but even then it's silly and the loss of the GS transition makes me sad.

3a2a is a gimmick at neutral. Because people are so used to NMs whoring 3aa, they forget about the low.

But it mainly shines in wall combos. Its a left side RO when you're hugging the edge. A reliable left side RO during a wall combo is something NM lacks - so there's that. Also, the wakeup it gives on during a wall combo is actually really good. 2(K) is a mixup with 2a+b and gsK BE after CH 3a2a, as pointed out by kingace.

2) 44_11_77A: I know it isn't useless but I never find myself using. Is there something notable or unique about this move? It just seems so slow and some of my friends are actually starting to jG it on reaction which is even more incentive not to use it.

No clue who you're playing that can JG that on reaction. If they're doing that, then you really shouldn't be doing 44a as much as you are. Haha. Its good for killing rushdowns and great on the guard guage. Besides, its a mid long range horizontal that's only -12. At tip range, it gives room for backstep and NSS shenanigans.

Also, it looks a lot like 1a. I haven't actually tried using it as a mixup, but I can see it working every once in a blue moon.

3) 4BB: Slow, linear, easily jG-able, unsafe. Where's the use for this?

Better damage than 3B as a whiff punish (though schneider said 44B would be just as good here), badass guard damage, and pretty safe. Not gonna lie, its pretty bad but it still is more useable than aab.

4) 1B: Slow, linear, unsafe. Sounds pretty useless to me.

This is basically your SCIV's 6B of SC5. Long range low whiff punisher that's hard to punish at tip range. Its also a very good combo ender if your opponent isn't teching - like after CH 3aa, its guaranteed if your opponent doesn't ukemi.

 

[Goofy]

I agree. I'd rather default to 9K or 9B instead of 66b+k - but in stances where you KNOW 66b+k can be used as a TJ or TC, then its really, really nifty.

Lol true, I'll have to look into that more. Definitely stylish.

God yes. 2b+kBEis a wonderful wakeup tool. For instance, after 2a+b. If your opponent rolls, 2b+kBE is a force block. If they do nothing, they can interrupt you, but if your opponent has the balls to wake up into an attack after 2a+b, god help them. And I don't know about you, but a good Nightmare at +8-9 frames is scary as hell. As for jumping 2b+k - you really shouldn't be throwing it out there at neutral. But if you do, and your opponent jumps with 9 instead of 7 or 8, then there's this really stupid hitbox on 2b+k that will airhit them for a ground stun.

Honestly, I don't see +8-9 frames being scary at all. I mean sure, it's a good momentum/pressure tool to keep them on defense and force a mid/grab mix-up but even then it's not that scary and more times then not, I'm left feeling like I just spent meter on nothing. Idk, maybe I'll grow to like it more but as of now I'd rather save meter for CE and GI.

Thing is, its i14. It can punish blocked 2Ks. That right there is something magical.

That's the thing though, that's pretty much it's only use, which blows. For being -16 on block, it could at least do something a bit more than give us neutral. I'd take SCIV WR K over this one any day.

Well, yes, a properly timed 9k will beat a 1aK at neutral... but then, you shouldn't be using this at neutral. You should be using it on wakeup. If your opponent is getting up and 9King, then a short charged 1a will beat their jump where a 1aK would lose. And the thing about JGing half charged 1A is if they mistime their JG, they can't JG again for 20+ frames... meaning you can mixup up half charge and full charge. If they JG the half charge, they're forced to bock the full charge and vice versa. If they guess right, you're getting your ass handed to you though. But since when has Nightmare not been about gambles?

Interesting, to be honest I rarely use 1A given how much of a hassle it is to space out to tip and I largely prefer 4A+B feints or GS B/66B for oki. Seems like it's worth looking into though.

3a2a is a gimmick at neutral. Because people are so used to NMs whoring 3aa, they forget about the low.

But it mainly shines in wall combos. Its a left side RO when you're hugging the edge. A reliable left side RO during a wall combo is something NM lacks - so there's that. Also, the wakeup it gives on during a wall combo is actually really good. 2(K) is a mixup with 2a+b and gsK BE after CH 3a2a, as pointed out by kingace.

Eh, it still seems incredibly niche and though the RO function is nice, it seems too situation-specific. I'd rather end with a 2A+B wake than a 3A2A wake personally.

No clue who you're playing that can JG that on reaction. If they're doing that, then you really shouldn't be doing 44a as much as you are. Haha. Its good for killing rushdowns and great on the guard guage. Besides, its a mid long range horizontal that's only -12. At tip range, it gives room for backstep and NSS shenanigans.

Also, it looks a lot like 1a. I haven't actually tried using it as a mixup, but I can see it working every once in a blue moon.

Lol the thing is, I dont. Maybe it's because he and I are both Nightmare players and we've played each other a lot, idk. It just seems so slow and spacing it out to get a tip hit just seems like too much effort for how slow and unrewarding it is(especially at non-tip).

Better damage than 3B as a whiff punish (though schneider said 44B would be just as good here), badass guard damage, and pretty safe. Not gonna lie, its pretty bad but it still is more useable than aab.

Idk, i35 whiff-punish necessitates a pretty big whiff and those rarely present themselves. Especially when 3B/33B/agA is so ingrained in me as whiff-punish.

This is basically your SCIV's 6B of SC5. Long range low whiff punisher that's hard to punish at tip range. Its also a very good combo ender if your opponent isn't teching - like after CH 3aa, its guaranteed if your opponent doesn't ukemi.

I still feel likes it's too slow and linear. Long range whiff punishment sure but, like with 4BB, that kind of whiff will happen rarely, especially when you're so far away that your best option is a 1B. i31, -16 on block, 38 damage...ugh.

 

[Tiamat]

Honestly, I don't see +8-9 frames being scary at all. I mean sure, it's a good momentum/pressure tool to keep them on defense and force a mid/grab mix-up but even then it's not that scary and more times then not, I'm left feeling like I just spent meter on nothing. Idk, maybe I'll grow to like it more but as of now I'd rather save meter for CE and GI.

It does some gauge damage too as long as you got it blocked up close (the tremor does no gauge damgae).

Also, spending NM's meter on 2B+K BE every now and then is fine since you always have way more than you actually need anyway.

 

[Engared]

It does some gauge damage too as long as you got it blocked up close (the tremor does no gauge damgae).

Also, spending NM's meter on 2B+K BE every now and then is fine since you always have way more than you actually need anyway.

Reignhart spends his whole meter on 2B+K BE. It works pretty well :D

 

[Fame96]

4BB, 33B, 3B, 3AA are my main whiff punishers. 1B for some reason always gets side-stepped on reaction for me. 6b and 6k are my main CH fishers. I'm surprised that no one mentioned WR A, I use that alot when I duck under highs considering it does more than WR B, NSS b:A

 

[Schneider-X]

I rarely use WR A due to it lacking TC frames and being slower than FC 3B, which does have TC frames. Sometimes I don't react fast enough to whiffed highs to use WR A because I'm afraid of the move being stuffed by the tail end of the animation.

Its useful for very punishable lows though.

 

[Fame96]

I don't know many lows of the back of my head that are -22 on block.

 

[DeathInMyEyes]

I find myself using iwr A while they're at tip range. The range is perfect for a surprise, plus it kills step really well. I just wish it was a bit faster

 

[Schneider-X]

I don't know many lows of the back of my head that are -22 on block.

The only one I know of is Xiba's 33AA. Punish that move with full force because he's annoying to fight :P

 

[Fame96]

The only one I know of is Xiba's 33AA. Punish that move with full force because he's annoying to fight :P

I'll keep that in mind.

 

[Fame96]

I find myself using iwr A while they're at tip range. The range is perfect for a surprise, plus it kills step really well. I just wish it was a bit faster

Agreed speed it up to 17 frames or give it TC frames and it will be solid.

 

[DeathInMyEyes]

I dunno about it being THAT fast. I'd say i19 or 20 would be good for the damage and range it has.

 

[Fame96]

I dunno about it being THAT fast. I'd say i19 or 20 would be good for the damage and range it has.

Aww come on let a guy dream alittle. It is not like I want 1A to be 20 frames or for nightmare to get 11K back and we both know that is not happening.

 

[DeathInMyEyes]

Just found the perfect use for 4bb. bullrush BE!

If you just guard it, your best punisher is 3B for 75 damage, 84 with clean hit.
You can a+b the second hit for 46 damage, 57 with clean hit
You can 11(b) nss a+b 66b it for for 92 damage.

OR you can step 4B(B) b:A it for 91 damage, 99 with clean hit.

Still, it might be better to go for 11b here for the tech trap possibilities.

Its a damn shame 22k doesn't work here. It just whiffs for literally no reason.

 

[Greven]

bullrush BE can be punished by step + GS B