[MATCH-UP] Natsu

Der Lindwurm

Premium Member
Alright... hover A and hover A+B... going to test some things in the lab but thought I might as well get some input from people who probably already know.

Basically, I have such bad experiences against hover A+B if I do anything other than stand there and block and let her get the free guard damage that it leaves me totally open to hover A. A certain Natsu player told me to just backstep hover A, but would that result in a massive counter hit from hover A+B if it isn't A? If not, I'm guessing 4B+K after either divebombing attack is initiated still won't get you enough out of the way so you can retaliate big time with SSH BBB? Would 44(B) beat either or both if initiated at the right time? Or is it best just to run under any hover attack? (I seem to remember people've said that's the best thing to do against hover A+B.)
 

Pantocrator

[10] Knight
Like you said, because of PO A+B, 4B+K is not a good idea.
You can do it more simple, just side step and then guard low. Like this you can guard hover A and whiff punish hover A+B_B with WSB.
You can also go (but you have to input it very soon and very fast) for 2B+K SCH B+K. That will avoid verticals and auto GI hover A, and you can whiff punish hover A+B with SBH KBE. But in this case hover B will stay safe.
Side step to SBH is not working because hover B is tracking to much.

For hover after a bomb (4B+K) you can interrupt with 3B (if it doesn't want to whiff) in reaction A and B. SCH B will the recovery of A+B.

44B ? that sounds funny, I never tried, but an air counter with hover A+B must do a lot of damage.
 
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Der Lindwurm

Premium Member
I'll give 44B a try and see what happens. But it sounds like the most sensible thing to do would be step and guard low, like you said. The problem is I often get hit by hover A+B for unbelievable CH damage while trying to step it. I don't step early enough, I suppose? Or maybe 8wayrun would be better if it realigns too easily against a quickstep?
 

HolyCarp

[14] Master
I'd usually backstep and attempt to sidestep Hover A+B on reaction. It's worth continuing to sidestep until it whiffs, you could be right about it being one of those moves that will realign if you pre-emptively whiff punish it.

If you react quickly enough, I'm pretty sure you can just run underneath her while she's in Hover and then get a free backgrab after she whiffs any of the three attacks.
 

Der Lindwurm

Premium Member
So, 44B can beat hover A+B but apparently only if there's enough distance and you have to wait until you see the guard break crackle before you initiate the attack. At closer range or too soon she's still high enough to counter hit you for half a life bar. I think, but still have to test it out (my training session got cut very short) 44B would crush hover A if there's still time to attack after you see that it's not A+B. As it is now, I don't even have time to change from standing to crouching guard by the time I know which attack is coming. But, if 44B does beat hover A, it would be a simple matter of seeing what also happens when it's hover B (which I very rarely see from any Natsu players I've met) and the either 44B or side step and punish.

I was stepping hover A+B fine in training, not sure why it's such a problem in the heat of battle. It seems like I definitely wouldn't have time to backstep and then sidestep in those situations.

Kind of sucks that Natsu is at a measly -5 on block with hover A.
 

QuimeraRL

[08] Mercenary
Natsu is more dangerous than Siegfried at close and mid and long range.
At long and mid range she is doing more damage and she is safer too. (and She never whiff... but well it's a other topic...).

Her spacing game combinated to her whiff punish abilities prevent here from every keep away strategy.

And of course the BE throws does count. Especially when you can mix it with the main command throw.
Metter are in this game, she doesn't have problem to build it.
11 damage point more for a throw it's a LOT, I aldready made the demonstration with 6 points...


But the main question was : how can a fast character with an amazing range and excellent overall damage have insane throw damage since she can make freeze the opponent on an easy way ? Why instead of this Night and Sieg have the worst throw damage in the game then they are not able to make freeze anyone ?
Throw range is important, but when you don't have the damage or even the wake up game, it's not enough at all.

Oh by the way, I choose natsu, but it also works very well with Alpha...
ZWEI has the worst throw damage in the game! He needs to spend meter for same damage other chars would do without meter. Also, it's easy to predict which grab hes gonna use: No meter, mostly B grab. Meter, A grab.
 

Slayer_X64

Siegfried SA Moderator
ZWEI has the worst throw damage in the game! He needs to spend meter for same damage other chars would do without meter. Also, it's easy to predict which grab hes gonna use: No meter, mostly B grab. Meter, A grab.
Not sure where you get this from - even considering Zwei's A grab, his B grab does more damage than either of siegfrieds grabs. I dont honestly know which character in the game has the weakest grabs, but considering that Siegfried's grabs are on average weaker than Zwei's, i wouldnt put Zwei down there, at least not damage wise. I will however admit that Zwei's grab range is awful.

For reference, Zwei's B grab does 54 damage, and his A grab without meter can net him 39 damage. A grab with half a bar of meter nets 72damage, and with a full bar nets 79damage. with 2 full bars, his A grab nets 100damage.

And to avoid being read, any decent player will use their other grab just to mix things up. in the end, damage is damage all the same.
 

QuimeraRL

[08] Mercenary
Not sure where you get this from - even considering Zwei's A grab, his B grab does more damage than either of siegfrieds grabs. I dont honestly know which character in the game has the weakest grabs, but considering that Siegfried's grabs are on average weaker than Zwei's, i wouldnt put Zwei down there, at least not damage wise. I will however admit that Zwei's grab range is awful.

For reference, Zwei's B grab does 54 damage, and his A grab without meter can net him 39 damage. A grab with half a bar of meter nets 72damage, and with a full bar nets 79damage. with 2 full bars, his A grab nets 100damage.

And to avoid being read, any decent player will use their other grab just to mix things up. in the end, damage is damage all the same.
Yeaah thats true. I dont have an argument at the momment. My friend Andy-roo (idk if I spelled it well sorry mate xD) said he had some problems when he fought french players since they never duck and he doesnt have lows to scare them, and his grab options are way a bit easier than other chars to break, and he doesnt have patterns at all. To answer your doubt, -if you were wondering-, I got this thought from him since thats what he told me about ZWEI's grabs recently yesterday, and he is pretty good player so I listen and say what better people think about his grabs. The one you can argue with now should be him, Im just saying what he told me.