Match Up Notes & Discussion: Z.W.E.I vs Maxi

Some tips for y'all against better Maxi players

-3A works wonders against players who like to use WR BK, sidestep 6AB, or just like to step in general, I personally find it a better step killer than 6A, but that's just me, and because 6AB can tech crouch it if they decide to throw it out the. But, ofcourse it's important not to finish it unless you know it will connect, and the 3A delayed BE also does great against players who like to try to 6AB or WR BK on reaction after the first hit. From certain distances you can just 3A and backstep if you think they are going to 6AB, and then BK with a follow up. This is all I have time to post for now, I'll finish this up and what I took from the match as to what worked and what didn't later.
 
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MightyOmega said:
Some tips for y'all against better Maxi players

-3A works wonders against players who like to use WR BK, sidestep 6AB, or just like to step in general, I personally find it a better step killer than 6A, but that's just me, and because 6AB can tech crouch it if they decide to throw it out the. But, ofcourse it's important not to finish it unless you know it will connect, and the 3A delayed BE also does great against players who like to try to 6AB or WR BK on reaction after the first hit. From certain distances you can just 3A and backstep if you think they are going to 6AB, and then BK with a follow up. This is all I have time to post for now, I'll finish this up and what I took from the match as to what worked and what didn't later.
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you cant 3a delay BE :P you can delay 3aa but not the BE. Also remember 3a on its own is -17 on block and if 3a BE gets blocked and JGed then your gonna be taking alot of damage(Maxi can 44b it on JG) so its certainly a gamble.
 
Blueboyb said:
Can't backstep a punish >.>
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This is what the BE is for, to keep them from pressing buttons after the first 3A, discourage them from punishing immediately and you'll have time to backstep. That's just what I do that usually works. Basically just do anything to keep Maxi out of your face.
 
AndyrooxDS said:
you cant 3a delay BE :P you can delay 3aa but not the BE. Also remember 3a on its own is -17 on block and if 3a BE gets blocked and JGed then your gonna be taking alot of damage(Maxi can 44b it on JG) so its certainly a gamble.
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Yeah, 90% of ZWEIs stuff is a gamble I feel like when it comes to good punishers. But you can delay the BE flash correct? That is what I was referring to, catches almost everyone I play.
 
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If u do 3a then wait any longer to press the BE it shouldn't come out. But hey if your working some magic good job lol
 
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After 2K, if you're expecting 6A just WR B to discourage 6A, basically it's a matter of predicting what your opponent will do after 2K, for every option Maxi has after that, aside from just blocking, ZWEI has something he can follow up with for a decent amount of damage. Also, Maxi's large hitbox does make him susceptible to CE -> 66AB -> CE, correct? I've seen Andy do it to me once, but I didn't know if it was guaranteed or because I continuously ukemi like an idiot.
 
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MightyOmega said:
After 2K, if you're expecting 6A just WR B to discourage 6A, basically it's a matter of predicting what your opponent will do after 2K, for every option Maxi has after that, aside from just blocking, ZWEI has something he can follow up with for a decent amount of damage. Also, Maxi's large hitbox does make him susceptible to CE -> 66AB -> CE, correct? I've seen Andy do it to me once, but I didn't know if it was guaranteed or because I continuously ukemi like an idiot.
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Its garanteed with a slight hold of 66a+b and when at the wall I believe
 
Found some interesting counters to what Good maxis do. This match up is still really hard for zwei, but if you focus and learn your opponent I can gurantee you will win 90% of the time.

6AAK - High High delayable mid
you have 3 choices for a counter.
-Duck the first A and punnish with something quick
-Duck the second hit and punnish fast
-Depending on what they do, JG or Back step the K guard Break or block or JG the K.
This is one of his best moves, KrazieCD loves to just lead with 6A and do no follow ups to lower your guard for example. Its a pain.

So you ducked the second hit and you know your opponent will now use
6AB
The B is stepable to th left 100%. Its an easy punnish if you read it.

44BB
Step the second B to the left Or 6A+B.

44BBAB
Thelast B is incrediblyeasy to JG, Ive seen some maxis just do the A to avoid being countered, so I would consider eithera JG or good step.


6A~6~KK
Basically RO KK
This move will be your bane until you learn to see Maxis stances. RO K is a low and if blocked gurantees a WR B.

2A+B
The online low. I hate this move online. Im sure you all do too. Its a low and then a high. If you block it then WR B is guranteed.

44K
This move is a greally good frame trap. Most players will do 44K after you have been knockeed down. Usually you can roll away from this but if you find yourself blocking this attack, most maxis will follow up with 2A or 2K. You have time to jump both optionss. If they optionselect into a 6A+B however, you will be in trouble. The key is to know how youropponent plays. If they 2A all day, use 6A+B to counter.

4BBK
This move used to be a frame trap. Now it is not. The K puts them at -1. It puts them into a option select situation when you block it, so if you can read them, counter with a 2A or 4KB(catchs step) etc.

FC 3AAA series
This move is a pain to deal with. It has a lot of mixups. First off FC3AAA series if not G canceld into stance is +5, which is rough since you are in a defensive state at this point unless you can sneak attack a CH.
If they G cancel it, then they are at -5.
Isnt that good? uually yes, but Maxi goes into PSL which means:
(1) if you attack and Maxi uses PSL B+K. You get Stuned
(2) if maxi G cancels, he Will be put into RO, If you attack and maxi uses B, your most likely going to whiff and get CH.
Be on your toes with this one.

11B
This move has a nastyTech trap into 66B. The only way to avoid this isto tech to the left. Watch out for the secondary Tech trap.

RO A
If somene uses this move on you and you block it, You better hit them with something big. Every charecter gets a launcher vs this attack on block.

6A+B
Dont get hit by this. It has TC frames and has a short range. This maxis best move.

22K
Another good maxi move. No real weakness other then stepping it, whichis hard since Maxi is stepping on this attack.

3A
This move is garbage on block. One of the single worst moves in the game easily. If you see this attack, use A+B to punnish 100%.

66B
This move on block is another PSL trap. The weakness of this move that it can be stepped to the left and then can be punnished easily.

Thats all I can think of off the top of my head. Im sure Ill remembe more.
 
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Thanks Egg. when I get round to finishing the first post I will include some of this info you mentioned :)
 
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44BB transitions to rc which is a dead slow stance transition. There is no reason to let Maxi get to rca. Just hit him.
 
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AndyrooxDS said:
Its garanteed with a slight hold of 66a+b and when at the wall I believe
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Alright, im having trouble getting the exact timing of the hold 66A+B but I gotcha. Want to test out some of the stuff put on this thread sometime? A few Maxi ZWEI matches to see what works ingame better than others?
 
Egg said:
6A~6~KK
Basically RO KK
This move will be your bane until you learn to see Maxis stances. RO K is a low and if blocked gurantees a WR B.
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Just being picky here, but you mean BLK.

ROK is a mid that's fairly safe on block and brings the threat of another mid followup. Really don't want to duck against ROK.

44K
This move is a greally good frame trap. Most players will do 44K after you have been knockeed down. Usually you can roll away from this but if you find yourself blocking this attack, most maxis will follow up with 2A or 2K. You have time to jump both optionss. If they optionselect into a 6A+B however, you will be in trouble. The key is to know how youropponent plays. If they 2A all day, use 6A+B to counter.
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Vs jumpers and GI threats, I opt for 236K. It juggles in the air and it's slow enough to jack up Gi timing.

Something to be aware of.

4BBK
This move used to be a frame trap. Now it is not. The K puts them at -1. It puts them into a option select situation when you block it, so if you can read them, counter with a 2A or 4KB(catchs step) etc.
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K's H so you can duck it and avoid the frame situation. Also JG'ing the second B puts Maxi in a really annoying situation. Can't really stop because he's in a long loop transition so a punish is assured so the K's kinda the only option since it can still catch people overeager to punish off the JG. That can still be potentially punished hard due to it being H however.

FC 3AAA series
This move is a pain to deal with. It has a lot of mixups. First off FC3AAA series if not G canceld into stance is +5, which is rough since you are in a defensive state at this point unless you can sneak attack a CH.
If they G cancel it, then they are at -5.
Isnt that good? uually yes, but Maxi goes into PSL which means:
(1) if you attack and Maxi uses PSL B+K. You get Stuned
(2) if maxi G cancels, he Will be put into RO, If you attack and maxi uses B, your most likely going to whiff and get CH.
Be on your toes with this one.
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Lows kill the aGI.

11B
This move has a nastyTech trap into 66B. The only way to avoid this isto tech to the left. Watch out for the secondary Tech trap.
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Watch out for Maxi having a full meter if you opt to tech left. His CE can catch you in that situation.

3A
This move is garbage on block. One of the single worst moves in the game easily. If you see this attack, use A+B to punnish 100%.
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The Maxi will be already swearing because this move is never intentionally used. Usually accidental while trying to do ifc3AAA.

Also notable is 33_99B. Linear but with good range. Launches and loops into BL so fury kicks are a threat and you can get BE'd on 33B CH. Breaks guard in 7, and it's safe on block (vs Zwei at least). Also has TC frames. It is steppable, but really all this debate over 66B, if the Maxi doesn't want to bet the farm while dealing with backstep, this has a good chance of coming out too. It's blocked? Oh well. Massive guard damage is done regardless.

Also 66B+K is much more favorable for Maxi on block than 66B. -11 on block linear and less range, but it can still catch backstep.
 
BL KK is quite possibly one of the easiest lows to read, along with 2A+B. As long as there is little lag I should add, there should be nothing to fear with either of these moves, basically a free WR B punish for both.
 
BLKK's not something a Maxi should be throwing out willy nilly. (The transition isn't even safe. I usually 6A+B other Maxi's out of it rather than wait on the block.) Worth seeing if the opponent can deal in round one or so, but not something you wanna do raw much otherwise.

Same with 2A+B. Can still be useful for anticipating step or CHin'g a H due to its range relative to 6A+B tho.
 
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MightyOmega said:
This is what the BE is for, to keep them from pressing buttons after the first 3A, discourage them from punishing immediately and you'll have time to backstep. That's just what I do that usually works. Basically just do anything to keep Maxi out of your face.
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Shouldn't really discourage punishers at all. Risk/reward is massively skewed in Maxi's favor. Just know that if you guess wrong not only do you lose meter but you are going to eat a 44b for your troubles.
 
Blueboyb said:
Shouldn't really discourage punishers at all. Risk/reward is massively skewed in Maxi's favor. Just know that if you guess wrong not only do you lose meter but you are going to eat a 44b for your troubles.
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or 6A+B BE xD, or CE, or WR B
 
Imo its Maxis Range that can be an issue for zwei. Zwei isnt very quick on the retaliation side of things.

If Zwei can CH some on the way in, then Zwei is in a really good spot. So if you are maxi the logic would be to space him out.
 
MightyOmega said:
Some tips for y'all against better Maxi players

-3A works wonders against players who like to use WR BK, sidestep 6AB, or just like to step in general, I personally find it a better step killer than 6A, but that's just me, and because 6AB can tech crouch it if they decide to throw it out the. But, ofcourse it's important not to finish it unless you know it will connect, and the 3A delayed BE also does great against players who like to try to 6AB or WR BK on reaction after the first hit. From certain distances you can just 3A and backstep if you think they are going to 6AB, and then BK with a follow up. This is all I have time to post for now, I'll finish this up and what I took from the match as to what worked and what didn't later.
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First off you mean WR B+K and 6A+B. Secondly, 3a with Zwei is unsafe. Why not go with his safe anti step tools like 2a and WR A? There is much less risk involved.
 
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