- Moderator
- #61
Marginal
Chikara Sashimi
You're already expecting 6A+B. How do you do both?
Match Up Notes & Discussion: Z.W.E.I vs Maxi
- Thread starter AndyrooSC
- Start date
MightyOmega
[10] Knight
Hard reads.
- Moderator
- #63
Marginal
Chikara Sashimi
MightyOmega
[10] Knight
Yep.
IRM
[12] Conqueror
i mean the move is super slow and you can just JG ein or GI it, mitigating most of the guard
dmg. Pretty much most of zwei's stuff that would push back never pushes back enough to put Maxi out of CE or 6A+B range.
Alex.J
[14] Master
Maxi is one of the most dangerous characters in the game to throw against. Who wants to eat WR B+K and 6a+b all day? It's a much bigger risk to throw against Maxi than most characters.
MightyOmega
[10] Knight
Well that's what 3A is for, which is as far as I know, is the best move for catching WR B+K that ZWEI has. I'm not saying I'm going to grab the entire match, I'm just saying that ZWEI does have decent grabs if the other player is playing super turtley.
Alex.J
[14] Master
Like I said before, mess around with WR A more. Since it's actually a safe tracking mid. 3a is okay for hard reads but since its pretty unsafe. Never should be a move to rely on. If you are trying to counter Maxi with unsafe moves, you are pretty much giving your chance to win to him. Since in the long run, it will be completely in his favor.
MightyOmega
[10] Knight
I'll try that, the only problem I have with it is that if a Maxi tries to 6A+B while I'm crouching to get into WR A, I'm screwed.
IRM
[12] Conqueror
who cares when GI heals gaurd and just gaurd heals guard also.....
IRM
[12] Conqueror
all i said is "that backstep B+K shit isnt gonna do anything", prior to thunderdome i didnt practice punishment or situation anti against the character. I didnt know the MU at all honestly, just duck here step here. But yo are you playing or what m online come get ur licks.
MightyOmega
[10] Knight
That is most certainly not what you said lol. But yeah, I'm getting on.
ZOo00OOm
is dead
I like your Zwei, Mighty. However, I hope IRM has better MU knowledge in the future.
MightyOmega
[10] Knight
Playing him now, he's doing much better. He's got my playstyle down. And that's what this thread is for, to let ZWEI players what they can do against Maxi and for Maxi players to learn what not to do.
Jimbonator
[14] Master
Lets crunch some numbers I guess.
Maxi reads a backstep typically entails 66B - Good damage! not to mention how PSL2 into K BE is a NC here so 80+ damage if he wants to expend the meter. Maxi can also kill movement at slight disadvantage with 6A if the spacing works out.
Zwei reads backstep with A+B - 45 damage more or less. Or if the Maxi is backstepping at larger disadvantage, 66BA for 60 roughly.
Maxi's favor.
Maxi reads a sidestep in this MU. 6A+B BE because even at +6 ZWEI is still forced to block it so it is a very potent movement catch. 60 damage roughly and even on block forces ZWEI to guess or give initiative to Maxi to exact more pressure. Maxi can 6A CH confirm for 49 if he chooses or go with 66A for longer range, less thinking, also on hit forces ZWEI to block or guess hard with 66B+K or ducking given the harsh disadvantage.
Side note, ZWEI makes a read with 66B+K - 33 damage. ZWEI guesses wrong and gets 66B+K blocked, free 66B, B+K, 3B, or 6A+B from Maxi, which all options greatly surpass 33 damage.
ZWEI reads sidestep with either 3A, 6A or 4A. 3A needs meter to be threatening or else you are getting around 34 damage for HUGE risk. Maxi 6A+B BE punishes 3A on its own, goes under 3AA also. So ZWEI NEEDS meter to make this set up work. If Maxi blocks 3A BE, thats a free 6A+B too. Granted, if Maxi has no meter, 3A gains more milage as a move to throw out because Maxi cannot multi task his way in this situation but still has options, like a lame 6A punish instead which works. 3A BE in the instance it does hit is good damage for you (60 with just the one bar? someone correct these damage values as needed) But the flipside is, Maxi can really just chill if he wants and wait for you to kill yourself because Maxi is only risking things if he chooses to attack. He can just block both because a high-mid, isnt a good mix up. If maxi blocks 3AA, he will be at +4 which is more than enough for Maxi to start bullying you because ZWEI does not have strong reverse mix ups. 6A is CE punishable but those arent seen too often given the circumstances to if Maxi blocks it, you're not screwed. Too bad the 2 primary moves every Maxi uses invalidates this move 100% 4A is similar and I broke that down in the 1st page. Sure EIN comes out but again, simple anti is a strong defense at what tricks you may pull out.
Point is, ZWEI sticks his neck out to kill sidesteps whereas Maxi really does not.
Maxi has excellent guard punishment, ZWEI does not. Maxi can get away with dumb moves like 11B, 44A, 4A+B, and the B+K JF series without the last hit and come out pretty much unscathed.
Maxi reads a backstep typically entails 66B - Good damage! not to mention how PSL2 into K BE is a NC here so 80+ damage if he wants to expend the meter. Maxi can also kill movement at slight disadvantage with 6A if the spacing works out.
Zwei reads backstep with A+B - 45 damage more or less. Or if the Maxi is backstepping at larger disadvantage, 66BA for 60 roughly.
Maxi's favor.
Maxi reads a sidestep in this MU. 6A+B BE because even at +6 ZWEI is still forced to block it so it is a very potent movement catch. 60 damage roughly and even on block forces ZWEI to guess or give initiative to Maxi to exact more pressure. Maxi can 6A CH confirm for 49 if he chooses or go with 66A for longer range, less thinking, also on hit forces ZWEI to block or guess hard with 66B+K or ducking given the harsh disadvantage.
Side note, ZWEI makes a read with 66B+K - 33 damage. ZWEI guesses wrong and gets 66B+K blocked, free 66B, B+K, 3B, or 6A+B from Maxi, which all options greatly surpass 33 damage.
ZWEI reads sidestep with either 3A, 6A or 4A. 3A needs meter to be threatening or else you are getting around 34 damage for HUGE risk. Maxi 6A+B BE punishes 3A on its own, goes under 3AA also. So ZWEI NEEDS meter to make this set up work. If Maxi blocks 3A BE, thats a free 6A+B too. Granted, if Maxi has no meter, 3A gains more milage as a move to throw out because Maxi cannot multi task his way in this situation but still has options, like a lame 6A punish instead which works. 3A BE in the instance it does hit is good damage for you (60 with just the one bar? someone correct these damage values as needed) But the flipside is, Maxi can really just chill if he wants and wait for you to kill yourself because Maxi is only risking things if he chooses to attack. He can just block both because a high-mid, isnt a good mix up. If maxi blocks 3AA, he will be at +4 which is more than enough for Maxi to start bullying you because ZWEI does not have strong reverse mix ups. 6A is CE punishable but those arent seen too often given the circumstances to if Maxi blocks it, you're not screwed. Too bad the 2 primary moves every Maxi uses invalidates this move 100% 4A is similar and I broke that down in the 1st page. Sure EIN comes out but again, simple anti is a strong defense at what tricks you may pull out.
Point is, ZWEI sticks his neck out to kill sidesteps whereas Maxi really does not.
Maxi has excellent guard punishment, ZWEI does not. Maxi can get away with dumb moves like 11B, 44A, 4A+B, and the B+K JF series without the last hit and come out pretty much unscathed.
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MightyOmega
[10] Knight
@Jimbonator I believe 3A BE to (B) does around 75- 80 damage or so? For only half a bar. I don't remember exactly. But it can also have a little damage added against a wall or edge with 1K, or cane be tech trapped with 66BA, etc etc. But of course those aren't guaranteed.
m216xlegendx
[10] Knight
He pokes out his 6a and gets punished cause its like -16 and a high. I want to know andyroo's opinion on this matter tbh. The damage is there but the risks he has to take to make that damage are insane.
But i do really like that 6a-66 ab -delay ein-1a very clever
3a is -16 or something, 3a BE is jg able. throwing out 3a isnt gona be a good option vs alot of the cast
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DarkSlayer
[09] Warrior
MU analysis: