Maxi Match-up Discussion

Rikuto

[10] Knight
Hey, I've got a real issue with these stance based rhythm characters. I've sorta figured out night and raph to an extent even if im not totally consistent against them yet, but maxi just keeps running me down without even trying. I've been trying to figure out maxi by reading through his frame data as well as the stance analysis thread. Boy was that a bad idea.... I'm making progress, but to put it bluntly if you don't play maxi it's kind of like asking a first grader to go read an entire dictionary.

Would there be anyone willing to give me some up front tips on how to stop this guy dead in his tracks? I'm sure there's gota be some holes in his offense it's just taking me forever to find them. Not really a big fan of getting randomed by him over and over again when I can clearly tell my opponent isn't even that good at spacing or combos. Downright frustrating if anything.

Going through his movelist alone it feels like im being forced into a game of rock paper scissors after every attack I block. Guess right and I interrupt him, guess wrong and I kiss half my lifebar goodbye. Isn't there a more consistent way to stop this?

I've got about three days until a tournament and a lot of anti to work on. I'm hoping I don't have to devote all of that time to Maxi alone.

Edit: Hold on a minute, you guys have a sidestepping mid horizontal that gives frame advantage on block and deals 50% lifebar with a single counter-hit? What the hell? How do you even make a move better than that?
 

P0ng

[08] Mercenary
22_88 A is the move i think your referring to and if you guess correctly wich button maxi will press after the left inner shift then you win and can get a hunk of damage from him. You just have to play smart defense if maxi gets some momentum going his guard crush game can be brutal dont forget about GI's either if you can catch a maxi player right after they have spent all there meter with a gi into combo of your choosing they can not re-gi you.

And don't forget to play the map on infinite maps back dash all day make maxi scared to step with 66a and then push him out with 22b watch him afterwards if your spacing is on point he might wiff a 66a or you can react to a 66b and side step and punish. but always remember to keep him out when he has advantage.
 

xdemonkakashix

[08] Mercenary
Wel said astahas all the tools to keep maxi out use your faster horizontals mid and high avoid 1 a b as the b is very stepable and can let him get in. which is bad for asta
 

howiplaythisgame

[09] Warrior
maxi has a lot of ways to force mixups on you in this game. the move you were talking about, 22A, is a horizontal mid that gives adv on block, but it only gives adv into a mixup that's unsafe for both participants. maxi has several moves like this that go into adv on block but only into an unsafe-both-ways mixup, and if he opts to not do that mixup he is punishably unsafe. the mixup that he's forcing in this way tends to come out of the left inner (LI) stance, so a good place to start might be to check the stance analysis thread for all of the + moves that transition into LI so you can recognize them.

all in all though, i think asta vs maxi is a bad matchup for asta this time around because of maxi's long range punish ability and because of 6A+B.
 

KrayzieCD

[11] Champion
Yes indeed, problem for Asta in this game against Maxi is that if he whiffs or does something steppable Maxi can and will punish with the increased range 66B+K and from that moment he'll be in there. Also you have to take care when doing grabs because 6A+B is a short range TC safe mid that will totally stuff grabs attempts. And like others before said, that mid that you're talking about is 22A but the mixup off of it is horribly unsafe for Maxi. Only thing that is uninterruptable after 22A is LI A which is -35 on block. It has good pushback but even still most characters have time to take a step forward and fuck him up. Asta has a shitload of moves that will punish Maxi after that without even taking a step. Also popular after the 22A frame trap is LI K which is a high kick that gives frame advantage. If you block this kick be careful about attacking, depending on what your opponent has been doing. The thing you have to watch out for by all means against Maxi is getting CH by RO B. If you eat that and your opponent has meter and you're anywhere near the edge of the ring it's a reynolds wrap for you.
 

xdemonkakashix

[08] Mercenary
He can also mixup to get more frame adv or a big combo using 1 b ( framedav comes fromthe a hold k on both starters) or 6 a then its a mixup from there, using 4 b he can stay safe by 4 b b a b or can go into k whick is risky but can happen but you.can 6 k the low sweep that comes in the final mixup. You have to make maxi afraid.to take that risk be either impacting a mixup and making him pay or by punishing.jim on a risk he takes. 66 b is.another.good option bc of the.tech.crouch in that move to go.under the inevitable high
 

Slaya

[09] Warrior
I'm going to go and try to help you in a direction different than the other people here, or at least that is going to be my goal.
First, I'm going to assume you just suck against maxi; no insult intended mind you. I simply mean that you are dumbfounded and freeze up when he starts dancing magically. This is, the true bread and butter of maxi. If a maxi user can intimidate his opponent then he can do a bunch of crazy stuff.
Second, aside from you 'sucking' against maxi; for lack of a better word, I'm going to assume you are fighting randoms. IE: People that are button mashing. I'm making this assumption because the advice I'm going to give you is going to be very generalized and someone who isn't button mashing with maxi will not be stopped by this (hopefully).

Ok, so with those two assumptions out of the way onto the tips!

START READING HERE IF YOU'RE LAZY

Alright, so a lot of things that make maxi great require him to get a ways into his strings or dancing as it were. I don't know SCV Asta's moves so I'm going to use the 6K from SCIV as a reference (His quick knee from nowhere) for speed.

Example: 6AA. Most likely 6A can be punished with Asta's 6K before the other A in the string comes out.
If you ever see a Maxi do BB or AA odds are you can simply mercilessly attack him. As long as your offense is good enough don't stop. Odds are (considering the skill I've witnessed online as of 2/8/12) the player won't know how to guard anything.
*Note: AA may have use... testing is occurring but that's irrelevant to this post.

So moves to stop maxi at...

6AA
BB
AA
7/8/9B This move appears from a few strings when people mash B. It's worthless and can be interupted before, after, or air grabbed while he is in the air.

Now, as I said I don't know what moves Asta has that can interrupt well, but I'm going to consider that your problem not mine. If you don't know how to interrupt with your character then you have other problems my friend.

Lastly, Maxi really sucks if you shut him down early. Of course.... what makes a maxi player good is when they can't get shut down :) There are a few more moves that can be punished but that should be enough for you to punish a random. Hope my general advice helps on how to crush a random Maxi. Good luck!
 

xdemonkakashix

[08] Mercenary
Good strat he still has 6 k but it doesnt lead into a guarnteed grab anymore possibly 22 b havent tested it plus it seems the.move is
slower now. Chances are.if you are asking for maxi.help.its not.for the mashers and you wont see b b b too often if.at.all the move
sucks. While his works on scrub maxis others will start to counter it if they get hit all. Patience and proper zoning are key in tr his matchup
 

Rikuto

[10] Knight
I simply mean that you are dumbfounded and freeze up when he starts dancing magically.
This has a lot to do with it honestly, although the more i learn about this matchup the more depressing it becomes.

Still, thanks for the advice guys. I'll keep looking into it and find what I can, but I may have to just come to terms with the fact this is a horrible matchup.
 

hotnikkelz

johNNy blaZe
The thing you have to watch out for by all means against Maxi is getting CH by RO B. If you eat that and your opponent has meter and you're anywhere near the edge of the ring it's a reynolds wrap for you.
You don't need the CH ;) it's gonna hurt on any kind of hit.
 
I've messed with Asta a time or two.

Astaroth's most powerful tools are his ranged, hard hitting attacks and his throws. In order to get this match up in your favor. You need to be making him block you and attempt throwing Maxi around like a ragdoll. Granted, better Maxi's will be sniffing for ways to interrupt. Maxi likes to be mid to close. Any Maxi smart enough knows being close to Astaroth will result in unfriendly hugs. Thus, they may try to space WAY back and make you attempt whiff something so they can run up and smack the shit out of you.

I dunno what Astaroth players are doing but here are some tips from personal history...
1. GI: If Maxi is giving you a rough time, try and time a GI. Yes it uses meter, but it can be a DEADLY momentum stopper. Astaroth's post-GI throw/mid hit game is great here. REMEMBER! GI now covers ALL areas, Highs, Mids, and Low. If you have not been doing much of this with your meter. Now would be a great time to start.

2. Throws: Make heavy use of your throws and mix them up. Yes, they can be broken. BUT they will still take something in damage either way. Also, you have crouch throws in your arsenal to help train them. These are your best damage if they are slow on the breaks. but using them to train your opponent once they are forced to block, opens up doors to hitting them with your mids.

3. Close Quarters: K is your friend. Bullrush, Delayed Bullrush, Bullrush BE, 3K_3[ K ] series, 4K_4KK, 6K. All kinds of mid hitting Ks. These kicks are great because A. They hit mid. B. Fairly Fast. C. They are kicks. Meaning that if Maxi wants to play the GI game using his any stance auto gi, they will stuff it.

4. Ranged: Maxi's idea of playing this game with you is having you whiff something and running up to punishing you for it. His 4B is one of his best moves to punish from just beyond his favorite ranges. Play this area smart and try to find a way back in. If the Maxi is dancing about (whiffing moves, to enter stance/stance shifting to bait you in) either A. Stay back and swat him. This option is great if you can ring him out. B. Give him what he wants and Throw down some Bullrush and begin those throw Mix ups.

Break his momentum anyway you can(GI/Poke/throw/etc...), force him to block(choose moves wisely and pressure him), mix throws and mids for the mindgames(once you have him blocking), If he runs away. Watch him. Bait with bG cancels and movement, when he attacks swat at him from a distance and/or charge back in there and get in his face. Make him block you.

my 2 cents...
 

TerribleGhost

[09] Warrior
I'm realizing that out of all of the losses I have so far in the Colosseo, one was against a Natsu and the rest of them are all against Siegfrieds. Can I get some advice on how to improve my game against them? I plan to spend my time after school today practicing against him in training, but I was curious what I should do for waking up/rolling, and punishing on guard/whiff.

Something about my playing against him, even people who don't know what they're doing, I just get crushed.
 

Hot Rod Dave

"Saucy saucy minx"
44B mix-ups on wake up
6A+B BE/66B on guard/whiff

and quick step like a mad man. Sieg is very linear and is a sucker for the quick step.
quick step~Throw, quick step 22A mix ups.

Im find that mixing up 22_88A between LIA & LI K, really messes with people. RC AB mixups on a blocked LIK is wonderful.
 

Hot Rod Dave

"Saucy saucy minx"
I altered your thread a little. Hope you dont mind. Good idea and the discussion should go here. Once a reliable match up chart is made. I will sticky that one and throw it up. In the mean time......

discuss

HRD
 

whirow

[09] Warrior
I won't exactly call Sieg linear considering he has stuff like 6A 3A SCH A
Just some points to note.
3K can no longer be interrupted by AA, Maxi can confirm a CE when you guard a 3 or you can step the K but watch for SCH A if Sieg catches on
SCH B gives him advantage now so don't attempt stuff after guarding that because 3A can beat most of Maxi's options
 

xdemonkakashix

[08] Mercenary
Thanks dave. As we all know maxi is really good in this game but he still needs to know what to tools his opponet.has so he wont get blown up. There are.already gelp threads and good advice on how to fight sigfried.which I will post here also.
 

xdemonkakashix

[08] Mercenary
Sigfried: Sig has alot of range and some good sweeping ranged attacks such as 66 a which auto gis and is a guardbreak but tis a high 22_88 a.is a side stepping mid that jas great range. Like maxi sig is a freight train once started and.he herts when he hits his 3 b can be devestating and he has a ton of ring out potential when in this area watch out for the crouch grab mixups break a if maxi's back is on the edge and b grab if his back is to the edge. Dave posted strats in the other thread and I reposted here6A+B BE/66B on guard/whiff
4 b mixups on wake up
A+b on wiff
and quick step like a mad man. Sieg is very linear and is a sucker for the quick step. quick step~Throw, quick step 22A mix ups.
Im find that mixing up 22_88A between LIA & LI K, really messes with people. RC AB mixups on a blocked LIK is wonderful. Keep on him and stay at frame adv whenever possible. Try not.to wiff against him and dont be scared of his stance changes.


HRD, Today at
 

xdemonkakashix

[08] Mercenary
I won't exactly call Sieg linear considering he has stuff like 6A 3A SCH A Just some points to note. 3K can no longer be interrupted by AA, Maxi can confirm a CE when you guard a 3 or you can step the K but watch for SCH A if Sieg catches on SCH B gives him advantage now so don't attempt stuff after guarding that because 3A can beat most of Maxi's options. This was also.posted in the helpw sig thread.use your uninterriptablestrings and stay safe watch for rsh mixups thst lead intodecent damage both options are unsafe so punish accordingly and play smart.
 

Spidey

[09] Warrior
I won't exactly call Sieg linear considering he has stuff like 6A 3A SCH A
Just some points to note.
3K can no longer be interrupted by AA, Maxi can confirm a CE when you guard a 3 or you can step the K but watch for SCH A if Sieg catches on
SCH B gives him advantage now so don't attempt stuff after guarding that because 3A can beat most of Maxi's options
Sieg whiffs most of the time with alot of stuff.
His 3K is -10 so yeah no AA. His 3(B) can be stepped preferably with a ws move. SCH A is just too slow now (i18).
SCH B is +2 on block so i guess except blocking, 2A is your best option (while AA will beat his following 3K and lose by his K which is no biggy, if he does a TC move it will hurt), will lose by K and trade with 3K, but beat stuff like 3B etc.
Everything he has from the other 3 stances is punishable except his SBH B, which is very slow and can be stepped to his left and his SRSH A which is slow and high.