Maxi Match-up Discussion

hotnikkelz

johNNy blaZe
As i said the only thing i found that reaches to punish his aB after he Blocks lets say 1B is 6A.
Where did you say that? I must have missed it....but 6A on hit can lead to good setups as you may know

The problem is to get inside him, and ofcourse the opponent wont use always the same att, but as long as he has a move that is relatively safe from Maxi and can interrupt so easily his loops with good dmg he will cause me troubles to no end.
Sounds fair enough.

His 2B+K kai be used extremely effectivly as a zoning tool, ofcourse you will block it its easy, but it still pushes you away continuesly and you cant step around it.
Listen this, block Cervy's 2[B+K] gives Maxi a free WS B. sometimes on Clean hit. Count the damage.
I understand it's antistep and seismo properties...but how is this different to Leixia's stomp? when out of range you block low to escape seismo or range jump then push foward/punish with something. In wakeup it'll be hard to deal with as I said, but outside of that....I'm not seeing anything special unless I'm mistaken.

No disputing he has dangerous moves, it is expected, but I don't see how this will differ for any matchup vs Cerv
 

P0ng

[08] Mercenary
What are you guys doing about really well spaced tiras? Her back dash is incredible.
 

hotnikkelz

johNNy blaZe
Tira is great in general. Maxi in general has problems gaining distance...but, Tira has to be at mid range to do damage as well, so she'll usually fight there. If she's back dashing a lot, it's cuz she's trying to make you whiff so you just have to be more careful and pay attention to your movement to get into ideal range
 

Uber1337

[10] Knight
Cervantes Realy rapes Maxi in this game. (Dont look at my avatar i am a Maxi player :P)
His aB is Rediculus, interapts EVERYTHING (No 6A , no 1B, no 44B if Cervy blocks the first hit he just interupts with aB) and although is punishable on Block you have to be kissing Cervantes in order to punish it, the pushback doesnt let you do shit.
His Ground slam att (2B+K) also zones out Maxi excellently.
Cervy aB loses to RO A after a 44B, so that move is still totally usable. It does kinda suck that he can beat 1B, but whatever, I barely even use that move. 6A is still gonna be worth throwing out because it kills step and pays off. I would recommend using more 4B strings instead of 1B's.
 

Uber1337

[10] Knight
I noticed the other day that Asta can't really punish LO B safely. His only real option to punish LO B is bullrush most of the time, but if you throw the K after LO B and he bullrushes, it will go over Asta's head and allow for a free BT B+K 2kB.
 

ZeroKirby

[08] Mercenary
I've messed with Asta a time or two.

Astaroth's most powerful tools are his ranged, hard hitting attacks and his throws. In order to get this match up in your favor. You need to be making him block you and attempt throwing Maxi around like a ragdoll. Granted, better Maxi's will be sniffing for ways to interrupt. Maxi likes to be mid to close. Any Maxi smart enough knows being close to Astaroth will result in unfriendly hugs. Thus, they may try to space WAY back and make you attempt whiff something so they can run up and smack the shit out of you.

I dunno what Astaroth players are doing but here are some tips from personal history...
1. GI: If Maxi is giving you a rough time, try and time a GI. Yes it uses meter, but it can be a DEADLY momentum stopper. Astaroth's post-GI throw/mid hit game is great here. REMEMBER! GI now covers ALL areas, Highs, Mids, and Low. If you have not been doing much of this with your meter. Now would be a great time to start.

2. Throws: Make heavy use of your throws and mix them up. Yes, they can be broken. BUT they will still take something in damage either way. Also, you have crouch throws in your arsenal to help train them. These are your best damage if they are slow on the breaks. but using them to train your opponent once they are forced to block, opens up doors to hitting them with your mids.

3. Close Quarters: K is your friend. Bullrush, Delayed Bullrush, Bullrush BE, 3K_3[ K ] series, 4K_4KK, 6K. All kinds of mid hitting Ks. These kicks are great because A. They hit mid. B. Fairly Fast. C. They are kicks. Meaning that if Maxi wants to play the GI game using his any stance auto gi, they will stuff it.

4. Ranged: Maxi's idea of playing this game with you is having you whiff something and running up to punishing you for it. His 4B is one of his best moves to punish from just beyond his favorite ranges. Play this area smart and try to find a way back in. If the Maxi is dancing about (whiffing moves, to enter stance/stance shifting to bait you in) either A. Stay back and swat him. This option is great if you can ring him out. B. Give him what he wants and Throw down some Bullrush and begin those throw Mix ups.

Break his momentum anyway you can(GI/Poke/throw/etc...), force him to block(choose moves wisely and pressure him), mix throws and mids for the mindgames(once you have him blocking), If he runs away. Watch him. Bait with bG cancels and movement, when he attacks swat at him from a distance and/or charge back in there and get in his face. Make him block you.

my 2 cents...
This
 

hotnikkelz

johNNy blaZe
I am having hard time against Nightmare. Any tips?
Be patient and 2A is your friend vs GS. In order for NM to damage he has to force you to make a mistake, or try chipping at you with his 1K and crouch throw and throws. That's about it basically.
Beware of his aGA as it gives adv on block. Beware of his spacing game, he has awesome back step and his stance attack evades plenty. When he has bar, beware of his CE autoGI :)
Matchup hasn't changed much
 

ZeroKirby

[08] Mercenary
Be patient and 2A is your friend vs GS. In order for NM to damage he has to force you to make a mistake, or try chipping at you with his 1K and crouch throw and throws. That's about it basically.
Beware of his aGA as it gives adv on block. Beware of his spacing game, he has awesome back step and his stance attack evades plenty. When he has bar, beware of his CE autoGI :)
Matchup hasn't changed much
Thanks
 

KrayzieCD

[11] Champion
I noticed the other day that Asta can't really punish LO B safely. His only real option to punish LO B is bullrush most of the time, but if you throw the K after LO B and he bullrushes, it will go over Asta's head and allow for a free BT B+K 2kB.
You guys hear this? I know this was meant for Astaroth users for help against Maxi but the way I see this matchup, Astaroth is the one at the advantage here so we need all the help we can get. Dave and I found this little tidbit out through a series of matches he and I had, myself as Asta and him as Maxi. Usually when he'd do 4B,B he would stop after the B and I would just bullrush immediately after the second B knowing that my bullrush would TC the high kick. The bullrush would hit him during the recovery of LO B. Later on, he started doing the entire 4B,B,K string and found that my immediate bullrush would go all the way under the K and completely miss. Not only that, but then he would get a FREE BT B+K plus 2K,B for some good damage. So at that point I had to stop bullrushing and waiting to see if he would do the K meaning I couldn't punish him for LO B unless I wanted to guess. So unless there is some other TC option for Asta that is fast enough to both punish LO B and hit him out of the flying K, that point is a complete guess for Asta. Also, once he starts waiting on the kick, you can even throw out RC A,B after 4B,B on block and it'll be fast enough to stuff his options unless he is seriously on point after that LO B. Basically once you get inside you can play some nasty mind games on Asta.

If you guys find any other options that make this particular situation different, post up please.
 

twiggywales

[08] Mercenary
i still really struggle with backstep moves like mitsu 4b i need assistance

lastnight i fought someone that used that move every couple of moves. steping didnt really work nothing seemed to reach him to hit him and its nearly imposible to punish. sooooooo frustrating :(
 

hotnikkelz

johNNy blaZe
Yep i know EXACTLY how you feel. Dash foward a lot and get rdy to guard. I know it doesn't sound good, but it's less vulnerable than stepping for gaining distance. Randomly mix 66Ks into your flow even at close range. It isn't as slow as you might think, and start using 6A more. Gotta be careful vs Mitsu. He is quite dangerous.
 

Uber1337

[10] Knight
if you can anticipate a Mitsu 4B, 22A is a fun move to throw out.

Against Nightmare, I like to use 236K a lot when Nightmare goes into a stance
 

7r17r1

[08] Mercenary
44K beat mitsu's 4B easily, you can for example throw 1B then go for a 44K, if Mitsu try to 4B after your 1B he will get hit
And it's force crouch and +2 on guard, so I think it's pretty good (WS B+K is fun there :D)
Of course, Mitsu can step and punish
 

hotnikkelz

johNNy blaZe
44K beat mitsu's 4B easily, you can for example throw 1B then go for a 44K, if Mitsu try to 4B after your 1B he will get hit
And it's force crouch and +2 on guard, so I think it's pretty good (WS B+K is fun there :D)
Of course, Mitsu can step and punish
That's some good stuff. Will try it out after some pokes and see. It's linearity bugs me so I've been doing 66K instead...but that's high so maybe a mix of both
 

7r17r1

[08] Mercenary
I never thought of 66K, I thought it may just impaled Maxi on Mitsu' 4B (should be critical hit lol), I'll give it a try

For Cervantes, his aB seems powerfull against RO stance, but if you attack him at max range with 1B or 44B, you can interrupt RO and backdash out of Cervantes' aB. The move seems to have a huge whiff that allow you to punish with 66B LI A on reaction
Anyway, the aB lose to 4B LO B, 44B RO A, 4B LO A (no counter so no LO A K guaranteed), WS B+K BL A and 22(B) RC A B
It cleanly beat 22A LI K and 22A LI B and aGI though... x)
After a well spaced 6A you can cancel RO and directly go for a 44B (do a little back step while doing the 44B) that will whiff punish Cervantes' aB for "some" damage :]
You can also do 6A PSL 2 RC A B, will whiff punish Cervy's aB, put pressure if he steps or freezes (be wary of backdash) and punish some stuff. Be carefull cause the RC A will whiff if Cercvantes freezes (I don't think he can react to, but if he knows this mix up Maxi is in trouble)

Then
Blocking Cervy's aB grants you free 4B LO B for a good RC mix up and 40 free damage, be carefull if you block it at the tip of the range cause LO B may whiff... 4B may whiff aswell if you are really really at the tip of the hitbox
If you are close enough to block the two hit of Cervy's aB you can always punish with 6A+B BE
And ofc you can punish with CE


I need to test some other stuff I m thinking of :p
edit : added some stuff


Knowing this stuff I think it's fair enough between Maxi and Cervantes, stopping Maxi's mix up is always a little risk (and no reward), but it's true that we have to change our pressure against Cervantes.
 

7r17r1

[08] Mercenary
I tested again and I picked Mitsurugi to try to punish, Cervantes' aB is punishable by B+K wich is i18, but not 4A wich is i19

I think 4B is our best option if we are not sure about the distance here and we lack of CE