IRM
[12] Conqueror
4BA is too slow to catch step, you can step and block low.
Maxi's Top 10 Moves
- Thread starter BlackDragon37
- Start date
Hot Rod Dave
"Saucy saucy minx"
I dont like LO A either. I never have in any of the games. But its no slower than 22KA and does the same effect. LO AK is -10 on block and +10 on hit. So its not gonna hurt you to use it. Though its not a top 10 move IMO.
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Slade
[14] Master
>66A
>> No, it´s not imo.
2 frames slower but still kills step at neutral and is safe, which is the biggie. 6A is AA/CE punishable by almost everyone.
>> 6A+B is almost useless against opponents who tend to backstep all day. The BE version costs meter so you can not throw it out like you want and it´s easy steppable to Maxi´s left.
Stepping 6A+B BE is a crapshoot compared to 6A+B (BE version has a larger hitbox in all directions). If you've found an opponent who knows how to win by doing nothing but backdash and never uses highs, throws, block, any interruptable attack, okizeme, and moves that are -16 or worse on block, then yes, 6A+B is a useless move. 66B and 66A are his backdash killers.
>33B
>> Move is really slow so why shouldn´t it track in both directions?
So if verticals are slow enough they should be reclassified as horizontals?
>22K series
>> Who can consistently block the low version and just guard the K version? The move does really cool guard burst damage too.
There's a seeable difference in animations. Just do the JG for when 22KK's second hit would come out and if you see him transitioning into the low, block low. ez. This move is mostly useful as a tech jump from RO and sometimes as a whiff punish.
>66B
>> Like kAb said, Natsu has a no brainer attack against this move on block like Asta(FC3k) and other chars too.
It's not Pat's 66B, sure, but "high risk" usually refers to launcher punishable on block. Just look at the options the characters you have to worry about backdash against the most have:
Aeon: FC A punish. Nothing else guaranteed or worth doing.
Algol: FC A punish. Ditto.
Cervantes: WR K. 16 damage. :(
Hilde: FC A or CE. CE hurts, I'll give you that one.
Nightmare: FC K.
>44B
>> Move is again really slow, does almost not track at all and it´s follow ups are easy to avoid bycertain characters via backstep. TC and damage ouput are great though.
You shouldn't even be bothering with the followups unless it's a hit confirm or your opponent is free to them. Just make them block it on oki and it'll safely smash their guard in 9 with the added benefit of shutting down wakeup attacks and some rolls.
>WR B+K
>> Not against characters like Cervy, Natsu, Nightmare or anyone else with a good backstep.
I'm not sure what to say. I'm sorry this move has an arguably irrelevant* weakness instead of doing everything for you.
*Whiff punishing WR B+K from outside of its range can be complicated, seeing how you're a considerable distance away from him and also have to take into consideration his various cancel and stance options.
>22A
>> 22A is even slower in most situations since you can´t always do it out of 8way run. And it even whiffs sometimes...
2A+B is so slow the only way you'll really kill step with it is when your opponent steps on wakeup, and after the majority of Maxi's knockdowns you need to run up to be in 2A+B's range, in which case 66~2A is still faster, safer, and more damaging.
>236K, FC AAA, 1B
>> 236K too linear but OK, FC3AAA woth mentioning yes, 1B again shitty range and only 16i "fast" i.e. not good for a poke.
IRM addressed 236K, and i16 is not bad for a safe mid that starts combos on CH and has an ambiguous (and hit confirmable) stance entrance.
Most of your complaints seem to be centered around backdash, which to me indicates you should focus more on running up and blocking or JGing in your matches. The zoning tools you should attempt to JG at neutral (e.g. Nightmare 22A or Aeon 66A) or bait and punish (e.g. Ivy 214B, Cervantes 1AB) vary from character to character, but I'd be happy to provide a more complete list if there are any matchups in particular that are giving you trouble.
Kvasir
[10] Knight
Well, yeah, but stepping is pointless, and loses to LO BK. His range covers ever common counter. Only thing I can think of that beats it out is Cervy back stepping into aB and maybe Mitsu 4Bing at the right range.
EDIT: Wait, I was wrong... You can step into ducking and beat the range, but you don't get anything unless they duck LO BK. And both the options I listed need to be spaced to beat LO A.
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IRM
[12] Conqueror
also 236K gets full dmg on Air hit as well, pretty swag.
Also slade dont forget the holy 66K and 66B+K respectively get a honorable mention. 66B+K being imo maxi's 2nd best launcher.
sometimes i swear Slade knows more about maxi than me...Make sure you screen shot this slade.
Also slade dont forget the holy 66K and 66B+K respectively get a honorable mention. 66B+K being imo maxi's 2nd best launcher.
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Hot Rod Dave
"Saucy saucy minx"
holy triple posting batman. A mod should clean that up
JAGTHEGEMINI
[12] Conqueror
>> No, it´s not imo.
2 frames slower but still kills step at neutral and is safe, which is the biggie. 6A is AA/CE punishable by almost everyone.
>> 6A and RO AK against stepping opponent does much more damage plus RO or wall.
66A is just... Meh
>> 6A+B is almost useless against opponents who tend to backstep all day. The BE version costs meter so you can not throw it out like you want and it´s easy steppable to Maxi´s left.
Stepping 6A+B BE is a crapshoot compared to 6A+B (BE version has a larger hitbox in all directions). If you've found an opponent who knows how to win by doing nothing but backdash and never uses highs, throws, block, any interruptable attack, okizeme, and moves that are -16 or worse on block, then yes, 6A+B is a useless move. 66B and 66A are his backdash killers.
>> Like I said, you just CAN´T throw the BE version out like you want. Yes, it is more difficult to step but most of the time you´ll do 6A+B which has certain weaknesses most people don´t seem to notice.
>33B
>> Move is really slow so why shouldn´t it track in both directions?
So if verticals are slow enough they should be reclassified as horizontals?
>> There are even faster verticals in this game which can track in both directions like PAT/Alpha Pat 66B or Omega with DNS B. So why can´t Maxi´s 33B be as good as those moves?
>22K series
>> Who can consistently block the low version and just guard the K version? The move does really cool guard burst damage too.
There's a seeable difference in animations. Just do the JG for when 22KK's second hit would come out and if you see him transitioning into the low, block low. ez. This move is mostly useful as a tech jump from RO and sometimes as a whiff punish.
>> Sounds to me a bit like theory fighting. I´ve had never someone JGied or block the low
constantly in a real match.
>66B
>> Like kAb said, Natsu has a no brainer attack against this move on block like Asta(FC3k) and other chars too.
It's not Pat's 66B, sure, but "high risk" usually refers to launcher punishable on block. Just look at the options the characters you have to worry about backdash against the most have:
Aeon: FC A punish. Nothing else guaranteed or worth doing.
Algol: FC A punish. Ditto.
Cervantes: WR K. 16 damage. :(
Hilde: FC A or CE. CE hurts, I'll give you that one.
Nightmare: FC K.
>> Like I said, high risk high reward, but is that "cool"!?
>44B
>> Move is again really slow, does almost not track at all and it´s follow ups are easy to avoid bycertain characters via backstep. TC and damage ouput are great though.
You shouldn't even be bothering with the followups unless it's a hit confirm or your opponent is free to them. Just make them block it on oki and it'll safely smash their guard in 9 with the added benefit of shutting down wakeup attacks and some rolls.
>> 44B will be to slow in many OKI situations with Maxi to either stop FC2A´s or siderolls.
That ´s my experience.
>WR B+K
>> Not against characters like Cervy, Natsu, Nightmare or anyone else with a good backstep.
I'm not sure what to say. I'm sorry this move has an arguably irrelevant* weakness instead of doing everything for you.
*Whiff punishing WR B+K from outside of its range can be complicated, seeing how you're a considerable distance away from him and also have to take into consideration his various cancel and stance options.
>> I was not talking about whiff punishing WR B+K but rather WR B+K whiffing due to
it´s mediocre range and speed.
>22A
>> 22A is even slower in most situations since you can´t always do it out of 8way run. And it even whiffs sometimes...
2A+B is so slow the only way you'll really kill step with it is when your opponent steps on wakeup, and after the majority of Maxi's knockdowns you need to run up to be in 2A+B's range, in which case 66~2A is still faster, safer, and more damaging.
>> 22/88 A wihffs occasionally against stepping opponents. 2A+B never does and it´s not that easy to block 2A+B during quick step. And 22/88A is even from running only 3 frames faster. I have never seen any decent Maxi player using that move even about 3 times in a whole fight.
Most of your complaints seem to be centered around backdash, which to me indicates you should focus more on running up and blocking or JGing in your matches. The zoning tools you should attempt to JG at neutral (e.g. Nightmare 22A or Aeon 66A) or bait and punish (e.g. Ivy 214B, Cervantes 1AB) vary from character to character, but I'd be happy to provide a more complete list if there are any matchups in particular that are giving you trouble.
>> Uhm, Maxi´s biggest problem in this game is the the backstep of certain characters... I would like to see some match videos of you. I want to know how you overcome Maxi´s weaknesses in a real fight. Giving tipps and help is fine, but in the end I prefer video proove.
2 frames slower but still kills step at neutral and is safe, which is the biggie. 6A is AA/CE punishable by almost everyone.
>> 6A and RO AK against stepping opponent does much more damage plus RO or wall.
66A is just... Meh
>> 6A+B is almost useless against opponents who tend to backstep all day. The BE version costs meter so you can not throw it out like you want and it´s easy steppable to Maxi´s left.
Stepping 6A+B BE is a crapshoot compared to 6A+B (BE version has a larger hitbox in all directions). If you've found an opponent who knows how to win by doing nothing but backdash and never uses highs, throws, block, any interruptable attack, okizeme, and moves that are -16 or worse on block, then yes, 6A+B is a useless move. 66B and 66A are his backdash killers.
>> Like I said, you just CAN´T throw the BE version out like you want. Yes, it is more difficult to step but most of the time you´ll do 6A+B which has certain weaknesses most people don´t seem to notice.
>33B
>> Move is really slow so why shouldn´t it track in both directions?
So if verticals are slow enough they should be reclassified as horizontals?
>> There are even faster verticals in this game which can track in both directions like PAT/Alpha Pat 66B or Omega with DNS B. So why can´t Maxi´s 33B be as good as those moves?
>22K series
>> Who can consistently block the low version and just guard the K version? The move does really cool guard burst damage too.
There's a seeable difference in animations. Just do the JG for when 22KK's second hit would come out and if you see him transitioning into the low, block low. ez. This move is mostly useful as a tech jump from RO and sometimes as a whiff punish.
>> Sounds to me a bit like theory fighting. I´ve had never someone JGied or block the low
constantly in a real match.
>66B
>> Like kAb said, Natsu has a no brainer attack against this move on block like Asta(FC3k) and other chars too.
It's not Pat's 66B, sure, but "high risk" usually refers to launcher punishable on block. Just look at the options the characters you have to worry about backdash against the most have:
Aeon: FC A punish. Nothing else guaranteed or worth doing.
Algol: FC A punish. Ditto.
Cervantes: WR K. 16 damage. :(
Hilde: FC A or CE. CE hurts, I'll give you that one.
Nightmare: FC K.
>> Like I said, high risk high reward, but is that "cool"!?
>44B
>> Move is again really slow, does almost not track at all and it´s follow ups are easy to avoid bycertain characters via backstep. TC and damage ouput are great though.
You shouldn't even be bothering with the followups unless it's a hit confirm or your opponent is free to them. Just make them block it on oki and it'll safely smash their guard in 9 with the added benefit of shutting down wakeup attacks and some rolls.
>> 44B will be to slow in many OKI situations with Maxi to either stop FC2A´s or siderolls.
That ´s my experience.
>WR B+K
>> Not against characters like Cervy, Natsu, Nightmare or anyone else with a good backstep.
I'm not sure what to say. I'm sorry this move has an arguably irrelevant* weakness instead of doing everything for you.
*Whiff punishing WR B+K from outside of its range can be complicated, seeing how you're a considerable distance away from him and also have to take into consideration his various cancel and stance options.
>> I was not talking about whiff punishing WR B+K but rather WR B+K whiffing due to
it´s mediocre range and speed.
>22A
>> 22A is even slower in most situations since you can´t always do it out of 8way run. And it even whiffs sometimes...
2A+B is so slow the only way you'll really kill step with it is when your opponent steps on wakeup, and after the majority of Maxi's knockdowns you need to run up to be in 2A+B's range, in which case 66~2A is still faster, safer, and more damaging.
>> 22/88 A wihffs occasionally against stepping opponents. 2A+B never does and it´s not that easy to block 2A+B during quick step. And 22/88A is even from running only 3 frames faster. I have never seen any decent Maxi player using that move even about 3 times in a whole fight.
Most of your complaints seem to be centered around backdash, which to me indicates you should focus more on running up and blocking or JGing in your matches. The zoning tools you should attempt to JG at neutral (e.g. Nightmare 22A or Aeon 66A) or bait and punish (e.g. Ivy 214B, Cervantes 1AB) vary from character to character, but I'd be happy to provide a more complete list if there are any matchups in particular that are giving you trouble.
>> Uhm, Maxi´s biggest problem in this game is the the backstep of certain characters... I would like to see some match videos of you. I want to know how you overcome Maxi´s weaknesses in a real fight. Giving tipps and help is fine, but in the end I prefer video proove.
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IRM
[12] Conqueror
i guess im not a decent maxi i whore 22_88A all the time. Maxi has pretty good range idk where you get this misconception that his range is mediocre. if your opponent is constantly backstepping you should, since that seems like what you're so hung up on then enjoy your free 66B. i wish people would backstep vs my maxi. they just stand there adn block LOL
CappuccinoJak
[12] Conqueror
i always thought it was weird, but i constantly see people let their guard down during B+K JF. even if i don't get them all, quite a surprising amount people just stop blocking after 2 or 3 hits lol. (granted these people seem to be newbies/beginners though).
- Moderator
- #70
Dr. Hates
Jerk.
Namco should patch the no-range, ultra-bad version of Maxi into the NTSC version of the game.
Kvasir
[10] Knight
My top 10.
1.6A+B (Look at me. I duck AND function like BB, but more dmg, guard pressure, a KND and a BE with GB)
2.44B (Punisher from step. Great dmg, ROs, guard dmg, even provides safety and mixup options from block. Broke)
3.WR B+K (Good tech step, TC, ROs, great dmg, great tracking, guard pressure, okay on block)
4.66A (i19 step catcher with great range and good frames on hit and block. 99/33A version has guard dmg too)
5.1K (The reason people stand up when you can't forceblock. It's a solid down K, doesn't push out awkwardly)
6.66B (Punisher, backstep catcher, OTG hits)
7.B+K BBBA (Timing is awkwardly lose into one tight JF, but it's dmg is too good for the utility)
8.6A (i17 step catcher/interrupt, easy CH dmg, ROs)
9. Right side throw (90 dmg RO throw with advantaged force blocks? Why isn't this higher?)
10. 66K (Good range, guard pressure, block frames)
1.6A+B (Look at me. I duck AND function like BB, but more dmg, guard pressure, a KND and a BE with GB)
2.44B (Punisher from step. Great dmg, ROs, guard dmg, even provides safety and mixup options from block. Broke)
3.WR B+K (Good tech step, TC, ROs, great dmg, great tracking, guard pressure, okay on block)
4.66A (i19 step catcher with great range and good frames on hit and block. 99/33A version has guard dmg too)
5.1K (The reason people stand up when you can't forceblock. It's a solid down K, doesn't push out awkwardly)
6.66B (Punisher, backstep catcher, OTG hits)
7.B+K BBBA (Timing is awkwardly lose into one tight JF, but it's dmg is too good for the utility)
8.6A (i17 step catcher/interrupt, easy CH dmg, ROs)
9. Right side throw (90 dmg RO throw with advantaged force blocks? Why isn't this higher?)
10. 66K (Good range, guard pressure, block frames)
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GOLD Lopez
[08] Mercenary
I agree with JAG. On paper Maxi is a good caracter. But in real game situation he seriously lack range..
In most MU all you do is run toward the oponent triying to get up close.
He lacks good fast mid attacks. When i say good i mean nice range and good recouver.
When you play against someone who dosen'st know the MU its fun and free.
In other cases it's a lot different.
This caracter is so damned easy to punish !!!
In most MU all you do is run toward the oponent triying to get up close.
He lacks good fast mid attacks. When i say good i mean nice range and good recouver.
When you play against someone who dosen'st know the MU its fun and free.
In other cases it's a lot different.
This caracter is so damned easy to punish !!!
Kvasir
[10] Knight
We should try to keep this discussion on topic. The topic of Maxi's moves, and which are best.
I'd like to discuss everyone's problems with Maxi, but it should be in General or a thread of it's own.
I'd like to discuss everyone's problems with Maxi, but it should be in General or a thread of it's own.
IRM
[12] Conqueror
Lol the European meta and EU meta is completely different when it comes to this char lol
IRM
[12] Conqueror
Kvasir I gotta disagree with 6A and sub in 1B not as a step catch but as a better like in general. It also leads to bigger dmg off hit confirm.
Also wtf no 3k love that's like his best hori IMO
Also wtf no 3k love that's like his best hori IMO
Kvasir
[10] Knight
No way, man. I've been loving 6A since SC4 were it was still AA punished and only CH combo'd into RO A. I think you would like it better if you used it more in space as a 50 damage interrupt that happens to catch step, after 6A blocks around tip range RO A beats out most punishment attempts. And in the Apat MU I found a workaround to it whiffing vs his quick step: You just need to side step into 6A quick (like 256A or 856A).
And I don't get much use out of 3K. That's my fault and not the moves though. It's nice when dealing with evasive nonsense and it's block frames are better than most everything else. But I like 33K, 2A, and 2B a good deal more.
And 1B I've never been sure about. I sometimes wonder if it is worth it at all in throw/6A+B/poke mixes.
And I don't get much use out of 3K. That's my fault and not the moves though. It's nice when dealing with evasive nonsense and it's block frames are better than most everything else. But I like 33K, 2A, and 2B a good deal more.
And 1B I've never been sure about. I sometimes wonder if it is worth it at all in throw/6A+B/poke mixes.
- Moderator
- #77
Marginal
Chikara Sashimi
3k does have the advantage of going through most aGI's. (Which 2B and 2A can suffer against. Also can't be jumped as easily as 2A.) +4 on hit's better than a 33K knockdown in a lot of situations too.
Also people looking for a solid horizontal mid for Maxi should try playing around with wsA more. Easy throw on CH. When they start ducking, 44B... tends to terrorize them.
Also people looking for a solid horizontal mid for Maxi should try playing around with wsA more. Easy throw on CH. When they start ducking, 44B... tends to terrorize them.
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JAGTHEGEMINI
[12] Conqueror
@ IRM
I never saw you using often 22/88A in your videos. I must have seen the "wrong" videos
@ GOLD Lopez
Nice to see ya joining the conversation. ;)
@ Marginal.
WSA... I don´t know. Move doesn´t give you anything on hit/CH... and the range is not so good :/
I never saw you using often 22/88A in your videos. I must have seen the "wrong" videos
@ GOLD Lopez
Nice to see ya joining the conversation. ;)
@ Marginal.
WSA... I don´t know. Move doesn´t give you anything on hit/CH... and the range is not so good :/
- Moderator
- #79
Marginal
Chikara Sashimi
22/88A is strange. Only combos at tip. I have caught IRM with it more than a few times though.
wsA gives you a mixup which can be rather useful.
wsA gives you a mixup which can be rather useful.
- Admin
- #80
Party Wolf
Administrator
I would like to point out in the first video that 44B killed WR B+K's tech step at 2:45