[Michigan] The Dirty Glove!

[DSBlackfox]

Looking for an awesome Tournament to attend? Enjoy the company of Alcoholics? Fail to qualify at your own Regional? Have friends and family in Massachusetts? Whatever your reason, you should attend the New England Regional Tournament!!!

Come for two days of excitment,adventure and intrigue!!! Regional event on Saturday! Side Tourneys, Gambling, Drinking and Debauchery on Saturday night! Two more tournaments on Sunday! Singles and Team! Your life is hardly worth living if you miss this!GET HYPE!!$#^$@%&

 

[Solon]

http://www.8wayrun.com/f2/digital-ops-monlthy-2-february-22nd-a2-michigan-t2509/

Mine's better than that other guy's cause it's in Michigan :P

Just kidding, just kidding, but you should still come.

 

[ShardZ]

Digital Ops Monlthy 2 -February 22nd- A2, Mich

wtf Dave, what happened to the OMG SF4 SO HYPE *fapfapfapfapfapfapfapfap*? :>
Also, since this isn't at crowpartment, is in a different location, and entry is $10 this DOES have the potential of attracting ppl who aren't 'the usual faces'. The issue then is how much you care about supporting the SC scene as a whole.

 

[BLDave]

Digital Ops Monlthy 2 -February 22nd- A2, Mich

Im still pretty hyped for sf4, but you have to take into consideration my distance.

I drive at least 3x as far as you, upwards of 1.5-2.5 hours, to show up to any of these events. The last digiops tourney I went to there were like 8 players, 6 of which were me, ryujin, and the guys we both brought with us.

For you, that might be worth it, but you don't pay my gas or drive me to tourneys.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, last month soul calibur didn't even happen because of lack of entrants. Why is this month going to be different. Like I said, I'm willing to come, but I'm not showing up for a tourney that may or may not happen.

As far as supporting the scene, I would argue that I've been to more tourneys in Michigan than any other player. I skipped the last digiops one because I thought it wouldent have any players and the weather was shifty, lo and behold I was right. Other than that one I've made it out to everyother one (minus one ). Including the 3 that were 'scrub tourneys' and a waste of time. You didn't even make it to the one me and whit held, in fact, ryujin was the only person who did.

 

[Ravariel]

Digital Ops Monlthy 2 -February 22nd- A2, Mich

Well, when one works 40+ hours a week (including 3-8am shifts and saturdays) and has a full load of classes, there's really only so much I can do. But hey, if you don't want to come, maybe more people will show, thinking they have a chance at the top spot.

This is only the THIRD monthly that Digi has done... the first one being small is no surprise... the second one got snowed out... why are you being such a little bitch about this one?

Seriously, get down off your cross, build a bridge with the wood and get over it. Come or don't come, but quit whining.

 

[BLDave]

Digital Ops Monlthy 2 -February 22nd- A2, Mich

wow, you sound pretty hostile. Are you REALLY that upset that I may not want to make a 2 hour drive to come to a tournament if it isn't going to happen/no one shows up?

Well, when one works 40+ hours a week (including 3-8am shifts and saturdays) and has a full load of classes, there's really only so much I can do.

First of all, i dont remember asking you what your schedule is like. Quite frankly, I dont care. What your business is, has little to no bearing on the topic. Im not talking about you specifically showing up to any events or not, im talking about people in general showing up. You can make it, great, if not, no need to make excuses or post your day to day itinerary.

This is only the THIRD monthly that Digi has done... the first one being small is no surprise... the second one got snowed out... why are you being such a little bitch about this one?

Actually this is the SECOND monthly. The first one was in October as an event on Halloween i believe. That one was small, in fact it was surprisingly so. I remember when AA tourneys had 15-25 people, but that's wishful thinking. The fact is, that at that tourney, Me and ryujin talked about going. We each brought as many people as we could, which happened to be 2 people each. Then we arrived and there were 2 other people TOTAL. We were all disappointed in the turn out, but it sucked double for me because i came from 2 hours away.

The first monthly, if I understand correctly, didn't happen at all. The weather was poor, granted, but its not like tourney people don't make drives in poor weather. Hell, me and the crew drove to chicago and back in the worst snowstorm we've had this year. But why drive in poor weather for a tourney that isnt going to have any turnout.

If you cant understand my trepidation on coming to this third tourney, then I dont know what to say to you.
Am I really being a 'little bitch' because I don't want to make a long drive to come to an event that might have very few people there to play in the tourney I want to enter? Why do you feel the need to name-call like you or me are children? Seems like there's more to this, its almost like you're lashing out at me out of nowhere.

Seriously, get down off your cross, build a bridge with the wood and get over it. Come or don't come, but quit whining.

Didnt realize i was up on a cross here. Provided that I do in fact, get down off of my cross and build a bridge with the wood, what exactly is it i'm supposed to get over?
Im talking about the potential turnout to a tourney here, and trying to make a judgment call on if its going to be worth the time and money its going to cost me to attend. This has nothing to do with pot size or anything like that, were talking about things like 'Are enough people going to show up to hold a tourny for sc4'
If that's what you consider something i need to 'get over' or whining, then so be it.

But hey, if you don't want to come, maybe more people will show, thinking they have a chance at the top spot.

If that's how you feel, then I just wont come.

 

[Ravariel]

Digital Ops Monlthy 2 -February 22nd- A2, Mich

wow, you sound pretty hostile. Are you REALLY that upset that I may not want to make a 2 hour drive to come to a tournament if it isn't going to happen/no one shows up?

Not at all. What bugs me is this "yall ain't worth my time" attitude. It's starting to look like this isn't about the community to you, it's about the money. You balk at an extra $5.00 like it's going to break your bank... probably because you can run top-2 in any crowtourney you attend, and doing so is more efficient. And ya know what, this tourney might not be worth your time, if that's how you measure it. But don't act like it's the fault of the organizer, or the rest of us that shit doesn't happen. AA hasn't had a "scene" in almost 10 years... to expect it to suddenly rise from the grave as fresh and bubbly as it used to be is asking too much.

First of all, i dont remember asking you what your schedule is like. Quite frankly, I dont care. What your business is, has little to no bearing on the topic. Im not talking about you specifically showing up to any events or not, im talking about people in general showing up. You can make it, great, if not, no need to make excuses or post your day to day itinerary.

You're the one who complained about others not going to events (specifically the one you held)... I'm just illustrating the reasons some of us can't do it every time. I'm not making excuses, here, just letting you know that a lot of us have to very carefully plan our leisure time, and we don't have the luxury of making a trip every weekend, even if we wanted to, no matter how short.

Actually this is the SECOND monthly....

Whatever, my point still stands. Very first AA tourney: wouldn't expect a lot of people. Second one got snowed out. This is the one where we can actually get shit going. If you're going to give up on the AA scene after so little time, the it really is doomed. Because, like it or not, you're a focal point of the Michigan SC community, and if our "top" player decides that AA isn't worth his time, then we're never going to have the turnout you want. So, if you want to stick to the "usual" players at Crow's, or "risk" a similar drive here... it's up to you... but don't be surprised when, without your support, the AA scene completely collapses.

Why do you feel the need to name-call like you or me are children? Seems like there's more to this, its almost like you're lashing out at me out of nowhere.

To get your attention. The success of AA tourney relies in a large part on YOU. Not the general, existential "you", either... YOU, DAVE. Because with you comes Whit... and then RyuJin and ShardZ and Killtz and Crow and others get interested... and then we've got a game. If you decide we're not worth your time... it's likely all or most of the rest will decide it's not worth theirs either. The real problem is, that without a steady high-level turnout, we'll never get the more casual audience to build the community into something to be proud of... something that can survive you not being there.

Im talking about the potential turnout to a tourney here, and trying to make a judgment call on if its going to be worth the time and money its going to cost me to attend. This has nothing to do with pot size or anything like that, were talking about things like 'Are enough people going to show up to hold a tourny for sc4'

That's fine, and understandable... but it's unreasonable to demand from the organizer that he tell you what the turnout's going to be 3 weeks before it even happens. Solon's doing what he can... and so am I, locally... what are YOU doing to make sure that this is going to be an event worth repeating? All I see right now is you casting doubt on the worthiness of it all... and just making it harder for us to drum up the kind of turnout we all want.

If that's how you feel, then I just wont come.

Well, I hope you do, even if it means that I'll be spending $15.00 to play 2 rounds, get my ass kicked, and sit in a stinky room watching other people play for the next 2 hours.

 

[BLDave]

continued from the DigiOps tourney announcement thread.

Not at all. What bugs me is this "yall ain't worth my time" attitude. It's starting to look like this isn't about the community to you, it's about the money. You balk at an extra $5.00 like it's going to break your bank... probably because you can run top-2 in any crowtourney you attend, and doing so is more efficient. And ya know what, this tourney might not be worth your time, if that's how you measure it.

You least of all have ground to argue with me about this community. You are fairly new to it and rather inactive in it.
Its also never been about the money. The pittance I get if I win or take second in any of these local Michigan tournaments never even covers the trip expense for me. Were talking 30$ in gas just to make the drive. Add in Food, tourney fee's and misc. stuff and we get often to near $60, so Ill also be damned if im going to let you lecture me about me 'being in it for the money'.

But don't act like it's the fault of the organizer, or the rest of us that shit doesn't happen. AA hasn't had a "scene" in almost 10 years... to expect it to suddenly rise from the grave as fresh and bubbly as it used to be is asking too much.

Do not put words in my mouth. I never said it was anyone's fault nor have I ever said I expect a large turnout, or any turn out at all. I simply asked if the tourney was going to happen this time. Its not unreasonable of me to expect an announced tourney to have at LEAST enough people to actually run said tourney. You seem to be making this out to be some sort of personal attack on the AA community or the soul calibur community or you or whoever. It isn't and it never was.

You're the one who complained about others not going to events (specifically the one you held)... I'm just illustrating the reasons some of us can't do it every time. I'm not making excuses, here, just letting you know that a lot of us have to very carefully plan our leisure time, and we don't have the luxury of making a trip every weekend, even if we wanted to, no matter how short.

Again, your facts are skewed and youre putting words into my mouth. Stop that, its pretty irritating.

What i said was :
You didn't even make it to the one me and whit held, in fact, ryujin was the only person who did.
which was in response to shardz talking about me choosing to 'support the community or not'. I dont like my support of the community called into question, because ive bent over backwards in most cases to make it to events.
In any case, i wasnt complaining about him or anyone not showing up, I was simply trying to show the irony of him making claims against my dedication to the community. I know he didn't mean anything personal by his comment, and i meant nothing personal by mine. You're the one that jumped in and assumed meaning behind my words and started flinging the insults around.
Also, as ive stated before, i don't care about the reasons that you or whoever cant make a tourney. I dont care about how much freetime you have and how much you cant have the luxury of making a trip whenever. Either you come or you dont. No one ever said anything bad about you for not being able to make it.

Whatever, my point still stands. Very first AA tourney: wouldn't expect a lot of people. Second one got snowed out. This is the one where we can actually get shit going.

That's an assumption. If it does, great, But if it doesn't, Me, not you, is the one stuck with a multi-hour drive.

If you're going to give up on the AA scene after so little time, the it really is doomed. Because, like it or not, you're a focal point of the Michigan SC community, and if our "top" player decides that AA isn't worth his time, then we're never going to have the turnout you want. So, if you want to stick to the "usual" players at Crow's, or "risk" a similar drive here... it's up to you... but don't be surprised when, without your support, the AA scene completely collapses.

Thanks but my ego is big enough as it is, i don't need you to stroke it for me.
For the record though, when did i say i was 'giving up' on AA scene. I never even insinuated it. The only thing I ever said was that if no new players are going to show up, then whats the point of any of us going for sc4, because we can have the same thing minus the hassle of downtown AA and a venue fee at our bi-weekly's.
Also, the 'risk' of crows versus an AA tourney is no comparison. Even if the only person to show up at a Bi-weekly was me (and crow, because he lives there) We could still have a damned good time playing some casuals, maybe checking out some music or a movie/mst3k or getting something to eat or WHATEVER. Just hanging out, because Me and crow and everyone that comes to the bi-weeklys are friends. We can relax and do things the way we want. This just isn't the case at an AA tourney. Not to say that we aren't all friendly, but its not even remotely the same situation.

To get your attention. The success of AA tourney relies in a large part on YOU. Not the general, existential "you", either... YOU, DAVE. Because with you comes Whit... and then RyuJin and ShardZ and Killtz and Crow and others get interested... and then we've got a game. If you decide we're not worth your time... it's likely all or most of the rest will decide it's not worth theirs either. The real problem is, that without a steady high-level turnout, we'll never get the more casual audience to build the community into something to be proud of... something that can survive you not being there.

This is just stupid, and not even worthy of me responding. Even I don't have the arrogance to assume the community will wither and die without me, and i'm pretty god damn arrogant.
I like the tactics though, insult me to get my attention and then stroke the fuck out of my ego once you have it. I may have a place for you in the company son, provided you go through with marrying my daughter. I know she isn't much to look at, but she'll make a fine wife.

That's fine, and understandable... but it's unreasonable to demand from the organizer that he tell you what the turnout's going to be 3 weeks before it even happens. Solon's doing what he can... and so am I, locally... what are YOU doing to make sure that this is going to be an event worth repeating? All I see right now is you casting doubt on the worthiness of it all... and just making it harder for us to drum up the kind of turnout we all want.

You know what. I really am getting tired of typing 'I didnt say that' and/or 'dont put words in my mouth. Did you even READ my post? Where did I demand to know what the turnout is going to be like. The most I asked was are we going to have enough people to actually HAVE a tournament.
Jesus, you seem to be hell bent on making me out to be this bastard that sits here and casts judgment down on events going 'silly fools, this event is FAR beneath the likes of me' or 'you had better make this an event worthy me' when thats not the case at all.
Again, the only thing I ever asked was, is the tournament going to happen. I think im pretty fucking justified in asking it too, because the last one DIDNT happen and the one before that wouldnt have happened had i not showed up and brough 2 people with me, there just wouldnt have been enough people.

Well, I hope you do, even if it means that I'll be spending $15.00 to play 2 rounds, get my ass kicked, and sit in a stinky room watching other people play for the next 2 hours.

Ill do you the favor and not show up, that way more people might enter thinking they have a shot at the top spot. Thats what you said isnt it?

 

[ShardZ]

Dave - I didn't mean to accuse you of anything, just saying how it is. It'd be hypocritical of me to EXPECT anything of you re: supporting the SC scene considering I've already said I'm pretty much done doing that.

Rav - I think you got the wrong idea, Dave's done plenty to support the SC community and has been an integral part of it since SC2 came out in arcades back in 2002. Plus I think it should be restated that the man drives ~2 hrs on a pretty regular basis just to play this game. So goddamn, stop pointing fingers like he's THE SCOURGE THAT WILL BRING THE DOWNFALL OF THIS SOUL CALIBUR TOURNAMENT.

I apologise for unintentionally sparking this argument. Can we take it down a notch and be a bit more civil plz? <3

 

[BLDave]

Dave - I didn't mean to accuse you of anything, just saying how it is. It'd be hypocritical of me to EXPECT anything of you re: supporting the SC scene considering I've already said I'm pretty much done doing that.

I apologise for unintentionally sparking this argument. Can we take it down a notch and be a bit more civil plz? <3

I didnt take you as accusatory. What you said was true, there MAY be new faces there and ultimately it is my choice to support it or not.

I would just ask that you be a little more understanding, being its not like its a pop on down to the game place to see if anyone showed up for me. I have to commit a minimum of 2 hours there and 2 hours back, just to find out if enough people showed up. That's why its a judgment call, and looking at things logically, DigiOps has a history of tourneys with very poor support. Thats all really.

 

[ShardZ]

I *do* understand that, but I guess I didn't really get that across. mah bad, davesy.

 

[Ravariel]

Do not put words in my mouth. I never said it was anyone's fault nor have I ever said I expect a large turnout, or any turn out at all. I simply asked if the tourney was going to happen this time. Its not unreasonable of me to expect an announced tourney to have at LEAST enough people to actually run said tourney.

Except you ask, in a brusk "is this going to be worth my time" way practically on the eve of the announcement of the event, before people have the chance to RSVP or even check their schedules. It's like the kid who goes on a road trip and starts asking "are we there yet?" before the parents are out of the driveway.

That's an assumption. If it does, great, But if it doesn't, Me, not you, is the one stuck with a multi-hour drive.

Indeed... but have the decency to ask if we're going to have enough people maybe, say, a day or two before the EVENT? Instead of the day after the announcement of the event?

Thanks but my ego is big enough as it is, i don't need you to stroke it for me.

I'm sure it is. I'm not stroking, I'm telling the truth as I see it. As an outsider, these sort of social connections may be easier for me to see, I don't know. Is it fair? Probably not, but thems the breaks.

For the record though, when did i say i was 'giving up' on AA scene. I never even insinuated it.

Your continued doubting of the ability of our venues to successfully pull off a turnout you consider "worth it" sounds a whole lot like such an insinuation to me. I ask again: What are YOU doing to make it worth your while?

This is just stupid, and not even worthy of me responding. Even I don't have the arrogance to assume the community will wither and die without me, and i'm pretty god damn arrogant.

Believe it or not, I don't see it as such a stretch. Especially because with you comes Whit and his protege... which, even in a 15-person tourney, is a SIGNIFICANT percentage of the players. Once we lose those three, then others start deciding it's not worth their while (PerfectLegend comes to mind), and all of a sudden, what could have been a great event is 6 or 7 people (not that that's necessarily bad, per se).

Where did I demand to know what the turnout is going to be like. The most I asked was are we going to have enough people to actually HAVE a tournament.

And what is "enough" people to you? 4? 6? 8? 12? Is a round-robin-sized tourney "not enough"? Does it have to have enough people to do a good double-elim bracket?

Jesus, you seem to be hell bent on making me out to be this bastard that sits here and casts judgment down on events going 'silly fools, this event is FAR beneath the likes of me' or 'you had better make this an event worthy me' when thats not the case at all.

Prove it. Prove it by helping make the tourney happen. Prove it by coming down and 3-0 ing me in the first round.

Or prove me right by staying home. The choice is yours.

Again, the only thing I ever asked was, is the tournament going to happen.

Well, we're TRYING to make it happen... and you're not helping. Once we get closer to the event, we might actually be able to answer that question. But asking now is detrimental to getting the answer you, I hope, want.

Ill do you the favor and not show up, that way more people might enter thinking they have a shot at the top spot. Thats what you said isnt it?

Actually it is. Granted, I did it to get your back up... and it seems to have worked. Now we'll see if I judged you correctly. Will you be the kind of fellow who gets competitive and motivated by smack-talk... or will you be petulant and take your toys and go home?

Who do you want to be?

Rav - I think you got the wrong idea, Dave's done plenty to support the SC community and has been an integral part of it since SC2 came out in arcades back in 2002.

I know that... that's why I think his hesitation to support the scene here in AA will be harmful if not lethal to it. Even if it's something as sacrificial as 4 hours of driving for no tourney, and a few casuals... if only to say to everyone else "where were you motherfuckers" to the rest of the community, which can motivate them to actually show up in the future... it might not be fair to Dave to want/expect that, but as a pillar of the SC community, he's one of the only people in a position to do it. He has access to networks that me and Solon just don't have, and the standing to get events happening. And with Regionals going on all over (I'm considering going to the one in Chicago, myself, though I'm the longest of longshots to place), don't we want as many large events as we can muster?

And something tells me that if this or the next Digi Ops tourney doesn't pull some people, they'll stop bothering with the SC4 altogether, and stick with the SF2/4, GG, TvC, and Brawl. At which point, the Crowtourneys will be all we have.

And maybe this will quell number fears somewhat: I may be able to convince a couple more local people to come. because it's on a Sunday, my buddy who runs the comic shop where we were having our casuals before the first tourney can probably make it (it's a question of his motivation), and I recently met another person who's into the game, and I can probably convince to come... so including me and Solon, that's 4 local players possible right now. If Dave, Whit and his apprentice (whose name I keep forgetting) show up, and 3 or 4 from Detroit... and 2 or 3 from Ohio... and hell, even the Chi-town crowd... we're looking at the yummy prospect of a 12-16-person tourney.

So... who wants that to happen?

 

[RyuJin]

It would seem that our number of players for michigan tournaments has dropped. I love playing with Dave, Crow, Shardz, and etc but I'd like to see a few more players. It seems as we maybe getting two more players (Simseeker and Mail_Box_on_Fire) at one of our next events which is great. Does anyone have any idea as to what can be done to help us gather more players?

Is the entry fee to high or low? Character bans or unbans a problem? Not enough smack talk or to much? Maybe we could get together and get a few five dollar pizza's and pops for the next Crownationals. I cant pay for it all but I'm willing to put in for quiet a bit if I we could get some others to help out as well.

 

[BLDave]

Ive had about enough of this back and forth. Ill respond briefly and then im done with it.

Except you ask, in a brusk "is this going to be worth my time" way practically on the eve of the announcement of the event, before people have the chance to RSVP or even check their schedules. It's like the kid who goes on a road trip and starts asking "are we there yet?" before the parents are out of the driveway.

Bad analogy, any tournament organizer that posts a tourney on a public forum has at least an idea of the turnout when they do so. They can get surprised either way, but there is always going to be SOME idea of the amount of people going to show up.
Granted, the further we go along the better idea he is going to have, but given DigiOps's history of poor turnout for sc4, I feel justified.

Indeed... but have the decency to ask if we're going to have enough people maybe, say, a day or two before the EVENT? Instead of the day after the announcement of the event?

Right, how inconsiderate of me. I should probably go ahead and clear my schedule for that day, and then wait around to see if this tourney is actually going to happen. I mean its not like I have anything better to do on that day, right?

Your continued doubting of the ability of our venues to successfully pull off a turnout you consider "worth it" sounds a whole lot like such an insinuation to me. I ask again: What are YOU doing to make it worth your while?

Again, your making it seem like im demanding some sort of major turnout or im not going to bother. That is not the case. I never said anything about this being 'worth it' or not, the only thing i require for me to come out to a tourney is for said tourney to actually happen. That really isn't too much to ask.

Believe it or not, I don't see it as such a stretch. Especially because with you comes Whit and his protege... which, even in a 15-person tourney, is a SIGNIFICANT percentage of the players. Once we lose those three, then others start deciding it's not worth their while (PerfectLegend comes to mind), and all of a sudden, what could have been a great event is 6 or 7 people (not that that's necessarily bad, per se).

Actually, Whit and Wayne more than likely wont be attending any more events. The dont really play the game anymore. Also, if other people decide to not attend an event because I dont (not saying they will) is their fault, not mine. You cant pin the blame for a poor tourney turnout on one person.

And what is "enough" people to you? 4? 6? 8? 12? Is a round-robin-sized tourney "not enough"? Does it have to have enough people to do a good double-elim bracket?

Would you drive 2 hours on one of your free days for a 4 person tourney? How bout a 6 person one? Why should I be expected to do that?

Prove it. Prove it by helping make the tourney happen. Prove it by coming down and 3-0 ing me in the first round.

Or prove me right by staying home. The choice is yours.

I dont need to prove anything to anyone, you least of all.

Well, we're TRYING to make it happen... and you're not helping. Once we get closer to the event, we might actually be able to answer that question. But asking now is detrimental to getting the answer you, I hope, want.

Quite frankly I just dont care. I understand you are trying to make things happen, but once again, you cant pin people showing up or not on me. If me asking if were going to have enough people to run the tourney causes people to not show, then this tourney was doomed before it was announced.

Actually it is. Granted, I did it to get your back up... and it seems to have worked. Now we'll see if I judged you correctly. Will you be the kind of fellow who gets competitive and motivated by smack-talk... or will you be petulant and take your toys and go home?

Who do you want to be?

This isn't competition spurring smack talk. This is literally saying 'i think the tourney will do better if you don't show' which is a total contradiction to most of what you've been saying. Im not some child you can reverse psychology into doing what you want.

I know that... that's why I think his hesitation to support the scene here in AA will be harmful if not lethal to it. Even if it's something as sacrificial as 4 hours of driving for no tourney, and a few casuals... if only to say to everyone else "where were you motherfuckers" to the rest of the community, which can motivate them to actually show up in the future

All I can say is wow.
This is so inconsiderate I can actually feel it sucking the life right out of me. How can people be like this.

and hell, even the Chi-town crowd... we're looking at the yummy prospect of a 12-16-person tourney.

So... who wants that to happen?

Oh, im sure the chi town crowd would love to drive 4-5 hours to attend a 4-10 man tourney. I know i sure would.


This conversation has been little more than me asking if this tourney was going to have any support behind it, and then you acting like a prick, putting words into my mouth and quite frankly just making things up as you go.
To expect anything of me you aren't willing to do is hypocritical of you, and quite frankly I don't see you as willing to do too much.
Would you Drive 2 hours to a tourney that you aren't sure is going to happen? Somehow i doubt it. I mean out of the last 12 tourneys ive been to, ive only seen you at 2 of them.
Again, i don't care what your schedule is like. It doesn't bother me that you cant make events all the time. However, you don't see me lecturing you on how you are affecting tourney turn out and so forth.

 

[BLDave]

It would seem that our number of players for michigan tournaments has dropped. I love playing with Dave, Crow, Shardz, and etc but I'd like to see a few more players. It seems as we maybe getting two more players (Simseeker and Mail_Box_on_Fire) at one of our next events which is great. Does anyone have any idea as to what can be done to help us gather more players?

Is the entry fee to high or low? Character bans or unbans a problem? Not enough smack talk or to much? Maybe we could get together and get a few five dollar pizza's and pops for the next Crownationals. I cant pay for it all but I'm willing to put in for quiet a bit if I we could get some others to help out as well.

Well theres a few reasons here. Whit and Wayne no longer play. Sean and Brett dont seem to play anymore. The twins still play, but they were out of town for the last tourney.

Im down for anything like that too, assuming its cool with crowy.

 

[Ravariel]

Couple more points then I, too will let it lie.

Granted, the further we go along the better idea he is going to have, but given DigiOps's history of poor turnout for sc4, I feel justified.

Well, if you know the "history" of SC4 at DO, you know nearly as much as the organizer does. And 2 tourneys is hardly a "history". 3 will be, and that's what I'm trying to avoid.

Also, if other people decide to not attend an event because I dont (not saying they will) is their fault, not mine. You cant pin the blame for a poor tourney turnout on one person.

Can I blame you for others' actions? Of course not. But it's naive of you to think that your enthusiasm (even if it's faked and you have other plans in reserve), or lack thereof doesn't marked effect on the enthusiasm and probability of attendance of others. All I'm trying to get you to see is that your attitude effects the outcome. So far, you've been dismissive and doubtful... which is counterproductive to the effect you claim to want. How is that rational?

Anyway, the bell can't be un-rung and the damage has probably already been done, so I suppose we'll see. Luckily there are others (props, RyuJin) who are actively trying to rustle up people.

Would you drive 2 hours on one of your free days for a 4 person tourney? How bout a 6 person one? Why should I be expected to do that?

4-person? Probably not. 6-person? Would depend on the day it was held and who was there...

Oh, im sure the chi town crowd would love to drive 4-5 hours to attend a 4-10 man tourney. I know i sure would.

Why do you think I'm trying to make it a 10+ man tourney?

Would you Drive 2 hours to a tourney that you aren't sure is going to happen? Somehow i doubt it. I mean out of the last 12 tourneys ive been to, ive only seen you at 2 of them.

For one who "doesn't care" why I can't do a lot of traveling, you do like to point out events I haven't attended, and my apparent lack of action within the community...

Jabs aside, it would depend on when I became unsure. If during the week of the tourney, there was still a lot of uncertainty, I probably wouldn't break any plans, but I'd keep my options open... and I certainly wouldn't broadcast the fact that I thought the venue was unable (or "had a history") to attract a large crowd, sabotaging it before it even began. Nevermind three weeks before it was even supposed to happen. As a relatively prominent member of our local Warhammer scene, I would never belittle another's tournament by saying "We have a group of 6-12 people that do [monthly tournaments here at the Labyrinth] where there is no venue fee. Why should we show up and play [40k] there with a venue fee, if its going to be only the usual faces?" I consider that to be EXTREMELY disrespectful, and that's specifically the line in your original posts (nouns modified to fit the example) that really pissed me off, because it directly sabotages the result the organizer is going for.

But hey, if this one doesn't happen, then it's likely that it'll be the last SC4 event for a long time in AA... and then it'll be a non-issue... and everyone'll be happy, right?

 

[BLDave]

Can I blame you for others' actions? Of course not. But it's naive of you to think that your enthusiasm (even if it's faked and you have other plans in reserve), or lack thereof doesn't marked effect on the enthusiasm and probability of attendance of others. All I'm trying to get you to see is that your attitude effects the outcome. So far, you've been dismissive and doubtful... which is counterproductive to the effect you claim to want. How is that rational?

My attitude was neither dismissive or doubtful. I only want to avoid an instance where i drive multiple hours for nothing. Like I said, if people want to not show up because of that, then chances are they weren't going to show up in the first place. Either that or they are a complete flake. Either way, i dont really care.

For one who "doesn't care" why I can't do a lot of traveling, you do like to point out events I haven't attended, and my apparent lack of action within the community...

I don't care why you cant make it to events. But I do care when you you start talking down to me because i may not want to attend a tourney that i'm not sure is going to even happen.

I consider that to be EXTREMELY disrespectful, and that's specifically the line in your original posts (nouns modified to fit the example) that really pissed me off, because it directly sabotages the result the organizer is going for.

Then you're a moron. None of us play calibur for any greater good or any bullshit like that. We go to tourneys that are good and skip ones that are going to suck. DigiOps is in this to make money, so if they want to attract players that already hold private events that are nearly exactly the same, then they need to do something above and beyond.
Normally, the prospect of a bigger pot for the winners due to an influx of new/unknown players would be this, however DigiOps has shown that they have trouble getting any new faces at all. Not to say that they never will or cant, but I can only go by what i've already seen unless i have reason to believe otherwise, and I don't.

But hey, if this one doesn't happen, then it's likely that it'll be the last SC4 event for a long time in AA... and then it'll be a non-issue... and everyone'll be happy, right?

we'll i for one know I will be happy. Hell, i hope SC4 dies out everywhere so I never get to play it again! Is that what you want to hear?

 

[Ravariel]

My attitude was neither dismissive or doubtful.

Bullshit.

"history of poor turnout" isn't dismissive and doubtful? What dictionary are you using?

Then you're a moron. None of us play calibur for any greater good or any bullshit like that. We go to tourneys that are good and skip ones that are going to suck. DigiOps is in this to make money, so if they want to attract players that already hold private events that are nearly exactly the same, then they need to do something above and beyond.

Unbelievable. Remember that sinking feeling you got when I said that as a pillar of the community, you should sacrifice for it? I got that when I read this. At least I had the honesty to say that it wasn't fair. Yet you think I'm a moron because I think it's important to support and respect other venues that are trying to embrace and expand the community you claim to enjoy!?

Pff, if that's the case, I'll ride the short bus for life, and be proud of it.

Because, when I'm a pillar of a community (and I have been now and again), that's the shit I do. I embrace new involvement, and nurture it through it's sucky first steps. I'm the guy who'll front the room and board for my band on a trip to Toledo or Chicago or New York to play a gig that pays a pittance of what it costs to go. I'll be the one getting up at 6am after getting home from a show at 3am to book new shows... who'll book shows in new venues for free to help them get their feet. Who pays for studio time and cleans out his basement for a rehearsal area, who scouts new members, and lovingly woodsheds those who need it, and who nurtures them through their time in the woodshed.

But if this is the attitude of the SC "community"... fuck it, I want no part of it.

we'll i for one know I will be happy. Hell, i hope SC4 dies out everywhere so I never get to play it again! Is that what you want to hear?

The only thing I want to hear from you is enthusiasm for new chances, people, and venues in which to play, and a little respect for those trying to launch them. But it's obvious you don't really give a damn about the community at large, just as long as you and your little circle can do your thing. At least some of them seem willing to give new shit a chance.

"Waah, I have to drive 2 hours and spend $15.00 when I usually only drive 2 hours and spend $10"... buck the fuck up. I've driven farther, spent and done more for far less, and felt privileged to do so. You don't really have much of a choice as to whether or not you are a leader in the SC community... but you do get to choose what kind of leader you are. If it weren't for RyuJins enthusiasm I would give up on y'all completely. Look at what he's doing... learn from him. That's how you be a leader in your community.

Blah, and I said I was going to let it lie... fuck it, I'm done.

 

[BLDave]

Bullshit.
"history of poor turnout" isn't dismissive and doubtful? What dictionary are you using?

Like it or not, facts are facts. You can call them any names you want. I wasnt saying 'history of poor turnout' to try and dismiss or cast doubt on anything, i was saying it because its the facts.

Unbelievable. Remember that sinking feeling you got when I said that as a pillar of the community, you should sacrifice for it? I got that when I read this. At least I had the honesty to say that it wasn't fair. Yet you think I'm a moron because I think it's important to support and respect other venues that are trying to embrace and expand the community you claim to enjoy!?

Pff, if that's the case, I'll ride the short bus for life, and be proud of it.

So dramatic. I got no sinking feeling being called a pillar of the community. what I felt was the need to laugh. You seem to think were playing out some grand epic here, when its really just guys playing games.

I think you're a moron for trying to condemn me for being wary of an event when every shred of evidence points to the fact that its probably going to have a very poor showing. If you cant realize this then you already were on the short bus.

Because, when I'm a pillar of a community (and I have been now and again), that's the shit I do. I embrace new involvement, and nurture it through it's sucky first steps. I'm the guy who'll front the room and board for my band on a trip to Toledo or Chicago or New York to play a gig that pays a pittance of what it costs to go. I'll be the one getting up at 6am after getting home from a show at 3am to book new shows... who'll book shows in new venues for free to help them get their feet. Who pays for studio time and cleans out his basement for a rehearsal area, who scouts new members, and lovingly woodsheds those who need it, and who nurtures them through their time in the woodshed.

Oh yeah, im totally that guy too. You know, as long as all i have to do is make baseless claims on the internet. If this is the type of guy you are, man up and prove it. Lets see you start hosting some tourneys/game days on your dime. Damn, I would even settle for you showing up to a few events.

But if this is the attitude of the SC "community"... fuck it, I want no part of it.

Please, you barely are a part of it. You've been to what, 2 tourneys?

The only thing I want to hear from you is enthusiasm for new chances, people, and venues in which to play, and a little respect for those trying to launch them. But it's obvious you don't really give a damn about the community at large, just as long as you and your little circle can do your thing. At least some of them seem willing to give new shit a chance.

What i dont feel enthusiastic or respectful about are people like you. People who get up on their soap boxes and try to preach. ESPECIALLY sense you may be the single least active member of the Michigan soul calibur community.
You cant possibly tell me i don't give new shit a chance when Ive been to more of the events in michigan than anyone else. Even the weird rules tourneys they had in lansing i went to when no one else did, because they had some guys there who seemed genuinely interested in playing.

"Waah, I have to drive 2 hours and spend $15.00 when I usually only drive 2 hours and spend $10"... buck the fuck up. I've driven farther, spent and done more for far less, and felt privileged to do so.

Its not about the venue fee, or the tourney fee and it never was. I think ive already said this. Ive driven farther for NO tourney before. Hell, me and shardsy drove like 7 hours one way to play some blazblue with a couple of the cool canadian guys. Its not like this is some meet and greet at someones house where a few cool bro's are going to be hanging out and playing. This is 1 tourney out of like 7 or 8 at a place who's only interest is making some money. A tourney which may not even happen because the support has been terrible in the past and i don't really see people signing up in droves.

You don't really have much of a choice as to whether or not you are a leader in the SC community... but you do get to choose what kind of leader you are. If it weren't for RyuJins enthusiasm I would give up on y'all completely. Look at what he's doing... learn from him. That's how you be a leader in your community.

The fuck I dont.
ahem.

I am not a leader in the SC community, nor am I interested in becoming one. By choice, necessity, popular opinion, or any other reason you'd like.

There, see how easy that was?

 

[MAILBOXARSON99]

blarghlez.

I know this might be fairly awkward timing, but I was wondering if anyone would be willing to head down to Oakland County for some tourneys in the future. The last time the Chill Zone held a tourney in Auburn Hills, only me and some Sophitia dude showed up. I was also thinking of holding some tourneys in Rochester, at the Rochester Hills Public Library, with no venue fees or bans. Opinions?

If you're interested, my own attendance would be 99% guaranteed, and there are some others near me, possibly even Simseeker, that might be interested in joining.