Natsu Questions And Answers / General Discussion

To do the PO A:6, you have to wait until you are in full possession. Basically, after 6A+B, wait just a little, then press A and 6 really quickly after. If this doesnt work, you can try and read the forum on natsu's most difficult moves.
 
UntaintedSoul said:
To do the PO A:6, you have to wait until you are in full possession. Basically, after 6A+B, wait just a little, then press A and 6 really quickly after. If this doesnt work, you can try and read the forum on natsu's most difficult moves.
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Nvm! I can do it:)
I just had to tap my foot during PO then do it
ty!
 
UntaintedSoul said:
What are other punishers that could be used if there is too much spacing?
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For a better understanding of this post:
i10 etc. means impact frames, means the smaller the number the faster the attack.
+10 etc. means recovery frames: +is advantage for you, - is disadvantage.
Don't forget i10 AA it can work where A:6 will partially whiff and leave you unsafe, -14.

YES A:6 is UNSAFE on partial hit: -14.

A and AA are both +2 on hit.

Other fast punishers:

i8: 2bA and 4a+bA, range roughly equals A, +4 on hit. 4a+bA can be done from crouch.
i10: AA, easy +2 on hit.
i10: A:6, hard to do as i10, good damage, unsafe on partial hit, see above.
i12: FC 2A, +8 on hit but crappy range.
i13: 2A same as FC 2A but 1 frame slower from standing.
i13: KK has a bit more range than A, +3 on hit.
i13~i14: WS K for punishing 1Ks or 2Ks, i.e. generic low kicks, +5 with huge pushback.
i14: 3K has good range and gives +4 on hit and is -8 on block, 3KK is a bit worse: on hit +2, on block -10.
i14: 4B has about the same range as KK. Gives knockdown and guaranteed 1A.
i14: FC 2B, surprisingly good range, +2 on hit and leaves you in crouch for WS K.

Other good but slower punishers are:

i15: 1B, same as FC 2B but 1 frame slower from standing.
i16: FC 2A+B for punishing lows, +11 on hit allows A:6 on the edge or wall for RO or Splat. Safe on block.
i16: 6B, +6 on hit
i16: 3B good damage and RO on close hit with A:6 combo but quite unsafe with -18.
i16: 6A+B, good range and speed, works good against some lows with pushback
i17: 2BA okay damage, +2 on hit, a safe way to test if a move is unsafe to:
i17: 66B DAT DAMAGE
i17: 66K, best range.
i20: A+B, safer than most other punishers.

For Side Ring Out:

i15: BK also short range though. RO to Natsu's left.
i17: 6AK also left. good range.
i22: 8_9A, rather slow with i22, RO to Natsu's Right.

Note 1:
Keep in mind that you lose about one frame or so when punishing on tip range.
Meaning some moves are unsafe to certain attacks but only at close range, at tip range they can block your attack.

Note 2:
Some combos, when used for tip range punishment, can have the first attack hit but the second will whiff depending on range and character:
Examples:
AA: rarely
A:6 : quite often
KK: rarely
6A+B, PO A_K: rarely on some, always, even at close range on some characters like Ivy
 
It has huge hit stun on normal hit, it's +11.
But it also has huge pushback so you can't combo with AA or A:6
Unless your opponent's back is to the wall or edge, then AA and A:6 are guaranteed.

It also stuns on CH for guaranteed 3KKK~ K2 i think.
Also Galen Posted this in the Natsu 1.04 Discussion:
Galen said:
Well, here's the thing with CH FC a+b. Some of the cast falls to their right and some fall to their left. That's why you can ALWAYS get a combo with either 6a+b or 3b BUT 6a+b is character dependent and anything that 6a+b doesn't work on 3b does work.
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I myself haven't tested that yet, but it makes sense.


If you mean the ground stun into guaranteed 44KK, that's gone, sorry.
 
is natsu best played as a defensive or offensive character? what are some good moves to get in with? im having a tough time with siegried and viola. I dont know if theres a MU chart, all that I know is that apparantly Pyrrha beats natsu. What are some of her bad MU's?
 
Not sure whether these characters are bad matchups for Natsu , butI have a tough time with Viola, Pyrrha Omega, Maxi and, to a lesser degree, Ivy. I used to have trouble with Sieg, but after getting some experience, he wasn't so tough anymore.
I also suck vs Voldo, Dampierre and ZWEI, but that's just lack of MU knowledge cause nobody plays them and the first two are plain weirdoes. (If I see a low-spamming Voldo or ankle-throw spamming Dampierre one more time...... all of my rage)
 
@ STB:
Offense, defense? I think she needs both:

A good defense always helps, i could use more of that too.
Natsu is really good at punishing on block, but some characters can play very safe if they so choose.
So you have to JG, GI or evade predictable attacks, as you also don't want your guard bursted.

Natsu's good evasive moves help her to keep offensive pressure even at disadvantage.
But be careful not to get counter hit too much.

I think a mix of fast moves, evasion and G could be good.
So they have to either turtle up and get pressured, attack with fast tracking moves that are mostly unsafe and get punished, or whiff/get countered.
It's a gamble though.

She can also combine defense and offense with Evasion on reaction, for example if you block the first attack of pyrrha's 66B BE, you can Tech Step and punish the second attack with your own 66B BE.
Instead of blocking it and taking Guard Gauge Damage and Disadvantage.
You can do the same with 66K and other Tech Jump Attacks against predictable lows.
Or with 66B and other Tech Crouch Attacks against highs.

Getting in:
Advancing can be hard, but useful to overcome range safety and range Frame Traps, and sometimes just necessary if your opponent has the life lead.
Best option could be Advancing Step~ G
If you step to the side at far-mid range wrongly you'll eat all kinds of horizontals, like Sieg's WS AA, and even tracking mids like Pyrrha's 66B.
Because Side Step is so unsafe, and mids seem to track better at far range.
Advancing Step can be cancelled to Guard much earlier i.e. is much safer.

Getting hit during sidestep also hurts more because of sidestep counter. i think +10 percent damage added +whatever Counter Combo your opponent can do.

Getting hit during Advancing Step, jump, POR, Wind Roll or Stalker does not grant your opponent CH.
So those can be better than Sidestep.
Although being aired or in a special movement like POR still gives +5 percent damage added when getting hit.
But no Counter Combos.

POR, WR and Stalker can leave you at a disadvantage, depending on when you use them, so don't always attack from or after them. Use POR Cancel, G. Or G after WR or STK. Also serves as a nice bait for Block Punishment.

Another thing is using unsafe but rangy attacks like 66K.
Even though they are unsafe, doing a shorter move and whiff can be even more unsafe.
Also many of Natsu's attacks become less unsafe on tip range.
And if the opponent Back Steps and you hit him, Back-Step-Counter adds 20 percent damage.

Sorry for the wall of text.
 
I tend to spam 66B, 4A, HOV mixups, 66K, AA, AAB, A+B, and 4A+B. Are there other important moves that I should add to my arsenal to improve my game?
 
@ Untainted Soul:
This thread might give you an idea:
http://8wayrun.com/threads/natsus-top-10-moves.10506/
I didn't participate in that though because i think one should know the whole command list.
That's a bit scrubby i know.

@ STB: It's -4 so a rather great disadvantage on hit.
I mostly do it for the 40 Damage and range.
You can still attack on hit but that can be dangerous, see my post about offense and defense above.
And it also depends on your opponent character.
Some can rape you for attacking at disadvantage.
 
66k isn't really an attack to spam (and I overuse it) but the combination of TC, TJ and great range does make it a solid move that often catches people with a tasty counter-hit -- either via dodging through a whiff or catching step (it's great against Mitsu's 3b, actually, but that's a punish situation). The -16 on block does make it risky, though (and -4 on hit isn't fantastic for Natsu's pressure game, either -- though you can probably reset nicely with a 2Ba or 4A+BA in most situations).
 
Thanks for all the info about 66K. It seems that 66B hits way more then other moves, but its a mid, so what low moves should i mix it up with? I use 4A into HOV or other PO moves but the transition from 4A into PO puts me in danger sometimes even if i use PO K, and PO A whiffs alot. I use it mainly to end a round. 1A is VERY slow and bomb is even worse. Should i stop worrying about lows and just grab instead?
 
11A, 4A, 1K are you go to lows. each has a different purpose but i believe these are her best aggravation lows. 2K/2KK is something to use as well.

dont forget about just using 214 B+K at advantage as well.
 
UntaintedSoul said:
Is the -4 on hit for 11A going to affect how i should follow up?
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I have -5 on hit for that one. Do you have some testing data or was that just a typo?

UntaintedSoul said:
I tend to spam 66B, 4A, HOV mixups, 66K, AA, AAB, A+B, and 4A+B. Are there other important moves that I should add to my arsenal to improve my game?
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A:6's! A:6's everywhere. :D

mneme said:
66k isn't really an attack to spam (and I overuse it) but the combination of TC, TJ and great range does make it a solid move that often catches people with a tasty counter-hit -- either via dodging through a whiff or catching step (it's great against Mitsu's 3b, actually, but that's a punish situation). The -16 on block does make it risky, though (and -4 on hit isn't fantastic for Natsu's pressure game, either -- though you can probably reset nicely with a 2Ba or 4A+BA in most situations).
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Also use it after blocking Mitsu's BB, because every single one of them follows up with 4B (The scrubby ones anyway). (Though in that case it's probably better to dash in with 66B).
 
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