FleshMasher
[13] Hero
k2 could also work vs 2As.
I wonder if a fast 2bA (i8) would beat a 2As tech crouch.
I wonder if a fast 2bA (i8) would beat a 2As tech crouch.
Natsu Questions And Answers / General Discussion
- Thread starter IdleMind
- Start date
orangeislands31
[13] Hero
Hello people I know I haven't commented at all around these parts of 8 way run, but I'm having a slight dilemma using natsus 88/ 22 B then catching the foe with her 66b Be. I just can't do it, I luanch the foe in the air and try to hit them with the BE but it just wiffs over them... I guess why this happenes is because I execute her 8wr BE to slow but I've tried even the fastest of inputs to no avail. Normally I would not ask questions on here but this is really putting a damper on my natsu gameplay.
Slade
[14] Master
Are you familiar with buffering? During any time when your character is "frozen", such as after they block a move and are in blockstun, get hit by a move and are in hitstun, or do a move and are recovering, there's a window of about 20 frames during which you can buffer inputs, which results in whatever move you inputted coming out immediately after your character recovers. Try going into training mode and doing 22B, and while she's still putting her daggers away tap 66B.
Also, why wouldn't you ask questions here? That's what these forums are for.
orangeislands31
[13] Hero
I've heard of buffering but never knew what it was about. Now I understand and with some practice I should have it down so thank you :) I've just never felt the need to ask questions becuase the question I previously asked was the only thing I've ever had trouble with. But with how quickly and accurately my problem was solved I definately will not hesitate to ask next time I need to know something on natsu.
Force_of_Nature
[12] Conqueror
That sounds like a good policy to me! You'd be surprised how helpful the Natsu mains can be in here.
orangeislands31
[13] Hero
Have any of you guys found a good use for natsus 3A? I'm not sure if this has already been discused in this thread or not but I'm curious on to whether the move is viable. It gives stun but not enough to combo off of. Maybe it can be used to follow up with Po mix ups but I guess I would have to check out how much negative impact it is on hit. Do you guys find yourselves incorporating this move in your games at all?
orangeislands31
[13] Hero
Now that I think about it 3A is most likely
to kill step. Still I have no idea what to follow it up with :/
to kill step. Still I have no idea what to follow it up with :/
Harry
[10] Knight
3A on CH gives you a mix up between a throw or a mid (usually 66B+G or 66B.) Like KAB has previously explained, it's a good move to use against Leixia and Ivy in situations where they are likely to use one of they're tech step moves (usually WR B in Leixia's case and 3B and 214B in Ivy's case.)
kAb
[12] Conqueror
I've got another situation for it as well. When you jg Xiba 6b. It jg punishes raw 6a and ch 6bk in the back for back throw/mid mixup. A:6 does not work on 6bk.
orangeislands31
[13] Hero
That helps me so much thank you guys. Natsu has too many tools to mix people up, Ive had many of my oponents state that they just can't guess right everytime which is just great xD lol
Force_of_Nature
[12] Conqueror
Don't forget orangeislands that 3A TC's so it's essentially a move you can throw out at slight disadvantage and not really from pure neutral. The 66B-Throw mix-up is all you need off the stun. From close-range~ neutral, A:6 will interrupt most of the opponents actions including stepping. However 3A also has the benefit of being safer.
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Harry
[10] Knight
3A is -13. Not what I would call safe.
Force_of_Nature
[12] Conqueror
Well safer than A:6. I usually get punished harder for misusing A:6 than 3A.
thenewperson
Fighter
I've found -13 stuff much harder to punish than -14 stuff. Not really sure why too.
Force_of_Nature
[12] Conqueror
That 1 frame can be quite crucial. -13 usually just leads to AA punishes (with Natsu's own A:6 and Cervantes' aB for instance being common exceptions). However, you still need to beware of the i13 or better CE's from characters such as the Greeks (Both Patroklos' and both Pyrrha's for example), though their timing needs to be spot on for -13 (except Alpha). As for -14, pretty much any character can punish it, with the punishment specialists (such as Pyrrha) being the most dangerous.
As for Natsu you're going to be using A:6 to punish as much as you can from -10 to about -16 or -17 when you can start to use 6B's, 3B's and 66B's. A big issue of course is the amount of pushback from the blocked attack. And Natsu's crouch punishment is another story. I've been trying to work 66B or WR B4A+B~A for the "Death on Block" lows but don't know what to do after connecting the WR B4A+B~A due to the opponent air controlling.
FleshMasher
[13] Hero
66B is the best attack here because it tracks best (every AC except 1 and 7 IIRC), in the right angle to corners or ring edge it's guaranteed or RO.
Variable recovery of 66B also gives the opponent something to think about even if it misses.
Force_of_Nature
[12] Conqueror
Yeah I usually default to 66B or 66B BE due to the damage and it being guaranteed in corners. When not in a corner 90% of my opponents air control out of it. Thinking about dropping a nice bomb for them when they land...
DopeDojo
[09] Warrior
I find myself over relying on BB 4A+Ba. Usually they duck the A and punish. Kinda sucks that both 4a+ba and Bbk end in high moves which can be ducked, but its good reason to use them as mix ups more then anything, a simple BB will usually suffice.
kAb
[12] Conqueror
Couple things to go over.
As you said, to a wise opponent bb4a+ba is nothing a duck into a quick ws move will beat out every option. That said, bb4a+ba is a NC on standing opponents and can be hit confirmed so as long as you aren't using it for pressure it's ok.
Tossing out bb4a+b once in a blue moon can catch people sleeping especially on bb hit.
Bbk is NCC on a standing opponent and can also be hit confirmed. This is good on its own but really shines as a ring out option to your right.
Something people might not know or have forgot is to use and abuse natsus left and right RO/wallsplat options. interesting to note is that on small breakable walls such as conquerors colosseum underground or the gong stage, a:6 wall splat will break the wall but will not allow another a:6 for the RO. Ch bbk to the right, 8a to the right, and 6ak to the left will all wallsplat, break the wall, and allow a:6 to RO. BK does as well, but Its not one I use often and could stand to work it in more, I forget which side for this one as well. These are great for post gi or fishing near the ring edge especially bbk since it can be ch confirmed.
I'm sure everyone knows the power of gi a:6 near a wall/ring edge. It must be re GI'd immediately and for a long time I was using Ag to bait the re gi. The problem was that if they didnt bite your opportunity was wasted. I've remedied this through some testing and found out that if you use a small dash forward to bait the re gi and they don't bite you still have enough time to land a:6 in the gi window. Too good.
Finally, I actually have a question. I saw omegaxcn using 33k a ton in recent vids at summer jam. I don't generally like this move as its utility is reliant on opponent ignorance. If it hits a ducking opponent the the 2nd hit won't connect, it doesn't jail on block and is slow at 20 frames as a whiff punish. It's sole purpose to me is to have the 2nd hit blocked near a wall/ring edge and try to ro with a:6 or a+b to beat 2a attempts.
Somebody mentioned they using it to stop ground rolls so I thought that's why omega was using it so much but after going in to practice mode. Hitting the CPU with a knockdown and having them roll to the left and right I couldn't get it to connect even 1 time. Is this on bigs only, or what am I missing here?
As you said, to a wise opponent bb4a+ba is nothing a duck into a quick ws move will beat out every option. That said, bb4a+ba is a NC on standing opponents and can be hit confirmed so as long as you aren't using it for pressure it's ok.
Tossing out bb4a+b once in a blue moon can catch people sleeping especially on bb hit.
Bbk is NCC on a standing opponent and can also be hit confirmed. This is good on its own but really shines as a ring out option to your right.
Something people might not know or have forgot is to use and abuse natsus left and right RO/wallsplat options. interesting to note is that on small breakable walls such as conquerors colosseum underground or the gong stage, a:6 wall splat will break the wall but will not allow another a:6 for the RO. Ch bbk to the right, 8a to the right, and 6ak to the left will all wallsplat, break the wall, and allow a:6 to RO. BK does as well, but Its not one I use often and could stand to work it in more, I forget which side for this one as well. These are great for post gi or fishing near the ring edge especially bbk since it can be ch confirmed.
I'm sure everyone knows the power of gi a:6 near a wall/ring edge. It must be re GI'd immediately and for a long time I was using Ag to bait the re gi. The problem was that if they didnt bite your opportunity was wasted. I've remedied this through some testing and found out that if you use a small dash forward to bait the re gi and they don't bite you still have enough time to land a:6 in the gi window. Too good.
Finally, I actually have a question. I saw omegaxcn using 33k a ton in recent vids at summer jam. I don't generally like this move as its utility is reliant on opponent ignorance. If it hits a ducking opponent the the 2nd hit won't connect, it doesn't jail on block and is slow at 20 frames as a whiff punish. It's sole purpose to me is to have the 2nd hit blocked near a wall/ring edge and try to ro with a:6 or a+b to beat 2a attempts.
Somebody mentioned they using it to stop ground rolls so I thought that's why omega was using it so much but after going in to practice mode. Hitting the CPU with a knockdown and having them roll to the left and right I couldn't get it to connect even 1 time. Is this on bigs only, or what am I missing here?
DopeDojo
[09] Warrior
All good points. To be honest I forgot Natsu even had a ring out game aside from BE A+G and a 66b BE near the corners. I'm starting to try and utilize A:6 more as a means of punishment. Hardest part is hitting the JF in an actual battle as opposed to training mode, which I'm sure will come with experience.
As far as 33k, I don't really use this one too much. I do 3kk more because it's safe. 33k however I may occasionally throw out to see if the opponent is sleeping. I put the move in the same category as 3A which I also find kind of useless. But maybe someone here has the inside scoop.
As far as 33k, I don't really use this one too much. I do 3kk more because it's safe. 33k however I may occasionally throw out to see if the opponent is sleeping. I put the move in the same category as 3A which I also find kind of useless. But maybe someone here has the inside scoop.