Natsu Questions And Answers / General Discussion

Force_of_Nature said:
TBH, that's exactly how you're supposed to fight Natsu. She is a CH-fishing character as opposed to pure rushdown. Your job is to bait CH's with WR K being the key move to achieve the desired outcome. If your opponent gets sloppy or impatient, you destroy them. If they're playing a really patient game, you'll have your work cut out for you because you'll be forced to play a risky mix-up based rushdown game if they achieve a life lead.

For me, I play Natsu because of how damn satisfying it is when you hit a CH WR K, an A:6 punish, or a Bomb launch CE combo against someone that doesn't play stupid against her.
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Okay, awesome, cause I've been playing Natsu kind of by ear, and I wasn't sure if I was doing it right, but that's exactly my playstyle. Bait out whiffs and counterhits and let DAT DAMAGE do the rest. In a way, she's a lot like Cervantes I guess, who's been my main since SC2.

FleshMasher said:
4A+B is not guaranteed after you GI someone, it can be blocked, but you can use it to punish a whiffed re-GI.
I think 2A+B can punish a whiffed re-GI too but 4A+B does more DMG.
(unless you can do double CE~Air Throw combo)
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Oh man, when I played more regularly last year, that combo was my FAVORITE. I loved listening to people on mics yell "YOU CAN DO THAT?!"

Now, though, I can't, because my fingers got stupid again.
 
Any suggestions on getting the normal A:6? I can land the PO A:6 fairly consistently now (say 80% of them time), but I can't seem to do the normal one that well (40% success rate tops). I know that if A comes out, then I hit 6 too late, but if A6 comes out, then I hit 6 too early. But if I can do PO A:6, then shouldn't I be able to hit A:6 almost as consistently? (since the timing is the same)..or am i missing something here? :O
 
anyquestions321 said:
Any suggestions on getting the normal A:6? I can land the PO A:6 fairly consistently now (say 80% of them time), but I can't seem to do the normal one that well (40% success rate tops). I know that if A comes out, then I hit 6 too late, but if A6 comes out, then I hit 6 too early. But if I can do PO A:6, then shouldn't I be able to hit A:6 almost as consistently? (since the timing is the same)..or am i missing something here? :O
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The only way to get A:6 consistently is to practise it over and over until your fingers input the command even when thinking about something else like what to have for dinner. How the execution works is to press A then slap on 6 the instant the A comes out. Be sure not to press them at the same time or it won't work. You need to clearly input the A before the 6. Being a JF move, you also can't buffer it and need to be exact when used as a punish or when trying to score a ground splat off of a launched opponent.

If you can get PO A:6 consistently, then vanilla A:6 should be no problem. The timing is about the same in terms of the input spacing between the A & the 6. A practice exercise you can do is to pick Pyrrha's stage and practise the combo: A:6~A:6~6A+B4~PO A:6~3KKK in a corner. This will train both A:6 and PO A:6.
 
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Hmmm... wouldn't I have to hit the 6 in vanilla A:6 a bit later than the 6 in PO A:6 since regular A is i10 and PO A is i7? even though only 3 frames = .05 sec later.... idk if that's going to make a difference though... (I recently checked Natsu's frame data)
But thanks a lot! I'll definitely be hitting the training stage soon to try that A:6~A:6~6A+B4~PO A:6~3KKK
 
Well, remember this: In just about any situation you use PO A:6, it's in a combo where you have control over the situation and aren't in a pinch as far as exectution windows.

A:6 on the other hand is frequently useful in frame tight combos and punishes, and it's having to get the :6 input out of a buffered A that is messing up your timing. The attack coming later than you press via buffer vs. the attack coming out the moment you press the button will interfere with your muscle memory for getting JFs out of said moves. The best advice I can offer in these cases is to learn JF inputs by sight. Practice something like 3B A:6, CH 22_88A A:6, or punishing Pyrrha's 66A on block with A:6. These are all setups with varied timing that are frame sensitive and rely on A:6 coming out of buffer to realistically do. It's a similar issue with using Pyrrha stabs to punish various -14s and up, where to get the JF AT, you more or less have to respond by eye to when your attack comes out than rely on muscle memory.
 
Ryoka said:
Well, remember this: In just about any situation you use PO A:6, it's in a combo where you have control over the situation and aren't in a pinch as far as exectution windows.

A:6 on the other hand is frequently useful in frame tight combos and punishes, and it's having to get the :6 input out of a buffered A that is messing up your timing. The attack coming later than you press via buffer vs. the attack coming out the moment you press the button will interfere with your muscle memory for getting JFs out of said moves. The best advice I can offer in these cases is to learn JF inputs by sight. Practice something like 3B A:6, CH 22_88A A:6, or punishing Pyrrha's 66A on block with A:6. These are all setups with varied timing that are frame sensitive and rely on A:6 coming out of buffer to realistically do. It's a similar issue with using Pyrrha stabs to punish various -14s and up, where to get the JF AT, you more or less have to respond by eye to when your attack comes out than rely on muscle memory.
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Hmm..Interesting, most people say use muscle memory for learning A:6, so this is the first time I've heard a "learn it by sight" suggestion, but the reasoning makes sense, so I'll try it as well! Thanks Force_of_Nature and Ryoka for tips on landing vanilla A:6! Hopefully I'll be able to improve it!
 
Ch 22a a:6 isn't that tight. Kkk is guaranteed so you have a 3 frame window with which to land a:6.
 
Ryoka said:
... punishing Pyrrha's 66A on block with A:6...
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Just to avoid misunderstandings:
66A is unsafe to A:6, BUT you only get the Partial Hit (the later part of A:6 whiffs) leaving you unsafe.
So in normal play i'd rather punish with AA.
Although the 10 frame window is perfect for practising A:6
 
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Flesh, there only on max range block do you get the partial hit. Close to midrange block, a:6 connects fully. It's a judgement call and hard to discern in the heat of battle so aa is a smart option if you aren't sure.
 
The tip about FCA+B with the opponent at a wall/edge into A:6 is interesting... I forgot that move was +12 on hit since no one seems to use it ever, lol. I'll have to try that sometime for ROs/wall combos.
 
It really only works as block punishment or ducked throw punishment since they would literally have to not be touching guard to get normal hit by it since its special mid.
 
Does Natsu even really have any good FC or WS punishers? WS K is low damage, unsafe, linear, and pushes back on NH. WS AAA is not a combo on NH, and unsafe besides. WS B4A+B is ALSO not a combo on NH, but it's at least safe. Unless they jump.

What I'm trying to say is, I got no idea what to do when I block a punishable low.
 
You usually have to resort to 6a+b, 66b which I find hard from crouch unless you have a big window, or 4b as your punishes from crouch.
 
If you block Mitsu's 2KB, I think you can WR K after you block the 2K. If they did 2KB your WR K will interrupt and give you CH, so you can follow up with 6A+B4~A:6~3KKK etc.

EDIT: 4a+bB can be done from FC, is only i8, and puts you at +4 advantage, but hits high, so it might miss some moves that tech crouch
 
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Punishers not yet mentioned that i like:
A:6 (vs whiffed throws you have enough time to stand up and do A:6)
FC 2A+B (low damage but +12)
6B
WS B4a+bA into 66B, generally not guaranteed (Air Controllable) but can be guaranteed near edge.

The 4B kAb mentioned is really good because it can combo into CE on Normal Hit, 4B is high though.
 
I'm getting quite a bit of mileage out of 22A right now. Just wish I had something better to follow up with after the AAB on CH. Seems like all I can really do is block and wait for them to do something then try to reset the position with another mixup.
 
After aab you have options. Aab beats all but 2a's and fast tc moves. a+b beats 2a, step and backstep. Make some reads, step, gi, or do nothing.
 
There's nothing guaranteed that you can followup with after hitting a CH AAB, it's a pure mix-up in your favour. However, pretty much no one attacks after getting tagged by a CH AAB so feel free to use moves such as 2KK, 6KA, 6B, BB4A+B~A, 214B or 8A+B (both a little slow and vulnerable to quick pokes or step attempts, but net the best Guard Damage), for example or go for a throw.

Feel free to continue whoring out 22A it's amazing. If you score a hit, you can attempt A:6's for a nice knockdown though it takes quite a lot of practise to get down.

Edit: What kAb, it's essentially a read on your part.
 
Seems like a lot of people I play will often try to 2A after I hit them with a CH 22A AAB combo so i'll try doing A+B to see if it will stop them. It looks like most of Natsu's basic options would be 13frames (BB, AA) and as such just a smidge too slow to stop someone from just mashing 2A. Or i'll try to work in a 6A since it hits mid.
 
6A is a high. SCIV Taki 6A is mid. Try using 8A. 3A is a mid but to slow to beat 2A's. If you'te talking about A:6 then I think it still loses to 2A's.
 
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