New Talim user. Just a few questions

ChaosxPaladin

ChaosxPaladin

[08] Mercenary
Okay, so Lemme just say I never was much of a SCIV Talim player. Casually she was fun to use, but her moveset was so vastly different from SCII That I just couldn't grasp her play style, and ended up dropping her as one of my mains.

So I moved to Siegfried, got above-average skill with him, and started playing online, looking for tougher opponents. I came across this one Talim player, by the name of twinsbrown i believe.

I gotta say, he was THE best Talim player I have ever seen in my life. I got my ass handed to me faster than I was able to get a lucky hit. I fought him quite a bit, using all my best moves and characters. I never won a round. He used all sorts of mixups I've never seen (not too many Talim players online) and just watching her move around made my head hurt. It was insane, but I accepted the loss with dignity.

But anyway, watching him play like that made me wonder; Was Talim really as bad as I thought she was?

So here I am now, practicing Talim via broken destiny.

But enough of that. As a new Talim player, I have a few questions I wanted to ask (And yes, I did look around the forum before I decided to post)

Should I keep practicing Talim in Broken Destiny? The balancing and stuns are slightly different, and I have noticed I have developed a few BD habits (using certain moves that have sun in BD, but not in SCIV) but I have gotten significantly better thanks to the brutal AI.

I read Talim has many unsafe attacks, and some of those were actually my favorites in SCIV (AAB anyone?) What are some examples of safe poking with Talim?

Last question. Sometimes AI and people online are able to block my usual startups. (Mainly :(6)::A:, :A::A::6:+:B::A:, and :(6)::B:) AS is usually my way of retreating, but what else is there?

Much appreciated, sorry for the trouble, and thanks a bunch.
 
Hey ChaosxPaladin. Your screenname looks familiar for some reason. I dunno if we've ever fought online though. And yes, Twinsbrown has a good Talim. If you like him, and/or want to face other decent Talims there's also Badass99 and ProvesaDark. I don't usually play online all that much, but if you wanted to fight me I can play a few matches.

anyway, as far as safe pokes go, there's not many. I use :6::B:, :(6)::B:, :2::A:, :(2):_:(8)::A: or :(2):_:(8)::K:. Along with your standard AA/BB/K

The thing with Talim is, that even though she's largely unsafe, by using mixups and conditioning your opponent, you can make her unsafe stuff safe. Examples being her :4::B::B: and FC:3::B::B:. if you only do :4::B: most people won't punish you for it out of respect for the second hit. (the second hit stuns on CH.) Same with FC:3::B:. They respect the launch from the second part so this becomes safe.

Experiment with using her full strings, and holding back hits in the strings and there's essentially your poking game. :6::A:+:B: is also a good ranged poke that is good on the gauge if blocked. It's -14 but the pushback usually makes it safe.

As for your question about "retreating" after a blocked move like :(6)::A:, her transitions are ways to try and evade punishment. Not all her transition moves can go into all her stances, but you basically have the right idea of getting out of there when they block. Almost all of her transitional attack are unsafe otherwise.

Hope that helps.
 
Yes, like u both pointed out and im sure is well known by now, talim is very unsafe, thanx to her built-in transitions and blockstun. The thing is, not many ppl hav good knowledge bout talim, therefore dnt know wat to punish or fite her for that matter. imo its easier to fite ppl who kno talim, cause they will actually crouch wen they see AS or WL, making it pssible to hit with AS B+K, making for stronger combo possibilities.

33b6b and 44aa are both good moves. becuz of the rarity, ppl will almost always get hit by the second hit. 6k is good if u know wen ur opponent will strike, as the hit produces a shakeable stun...6b is good, and leaves u at backturned, which, imo, is were u want to be, as she has alot of mixup from there. all the moves that Zero listed r great to...

the key to talim is applying and keeping pressure while not ringing urself out lol. u dnt wat to retreat unless it is needed, as u want to stay on them as much as possible. u dnt want ppl like asty or kilik to space u out, as they can keep u out the whole match once ur out...

i usually strt the match 8waying, to wait for the opportune time to attack, then i do 11b4 or 11k. if i see that opponent likes to strt off rushing me r throwing at an attack, i like to 236b or 6a+b. 66b is also good becuz it can hav decied\ving reach and 2a+b is free on hit.

but yea im always online, so feel free to hit me up. Twins is a good talim, even though he kinda retired (lol) to play tekken 5 and 6 wen it comes out. zero is a good talim too, but he plays more offlin then off (i think). I never got to fite provesadark's talim....

edit: o yea....condintion! its very important! u want to make them start ducking or standing for certain moves!
 
If you don't mind me adding lillte fire. I also think you should foucs on yomi and CFing because those two things are very helpful in the long run. P.S. I need someone to play SC4 online with again. I want to get my flow back:(
 
So I dusted off SC2 for a few minutes to see what changes the characters went through move wise. And surprisingly, Talim didn't really lose as many of her SC2 moves as I thought. A lot of them are just different inputs, and she actually gained a ton of new moves for this game and SC3 despite all the nerfs. Just found that interesting.

and man... FC 3BB was garbage back then.
 
ZeroEffect317 said:
So I dusted off SC2 for a few minutes to see what changes the characters went through move wise. And surprisingly, Talim didn't really lose as many of her SC2 moves as I thought. A lot of them are just different inputs, and she actually gained a ton of new moves for this game and SC3 despite all the nerfs. Just found that interesting.

and man... FC 3BB was garbage back then.
Click to expand...

It wasn't so much removing moves as making them worse that made her a low tier character. WC is the main complaint that most SC2 players have. The change in output of the old 66AA and 66K to 44AA and 66K respectively also came as a negative change from SC2 to SC3. Furthermore, the change to make a majority of her moves unsafe is just ridiculous.

Just my thoughts though :)
 
Oh I know. I wasn't saying she was worse in SC2, just that I was surprised at the number of similarities in the moves sets.
 
The problem is, the moves they DID take away were the core of her mixup game. Seriously, do you get a mixup after BB anymore?
 
Jaxel said:
Seriously, do you get a mixup after BB anymore?
Click to expand...

Blocked BB -> CH 1B -> Blocked 6A+B or some other slow, gauge rape move.
Blocked BB -> CH 1B -> CH 1B (<- love online) -> rape move.

The post was intended as sarcasm, but...
BB 1B (or 1B alone) has become my main anti-pressure tool, and 66B 22K is my main pressure "not your turn yet" tool.
BB 1B works absurdly well, no matter how much it may look like a joke at first sight.

But it's so silly that it can't possibly be viable offline...
Well, what do I know.
 
ZeroEffect317 said:
and man... FC 3BB was garbage back then.
Click to expand...
Must disagree. It was still a great move. You must remember that her options from crouching were WAAAAAY better then. So FC 3BB pressure strings were hella beastly despite the lack of damage from landing CH FC3BB.
 
Possibly. But then, if the rest of her options from crouch were that good, what's the benefit to using FC 3BB? What could you get after it hits?
 
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