"NO NO!!" "NO NO!" "NO NO!!"

[Kalas]

It feels strange to see such posts from you, even though you're saying the truth.
I hope I haven't infected you with the Leixia-sucks-fever too much.

 

[Therenovator]

i would like to see proof of her meter gain being the best. it looks like to me that your just on here say the fact you based this fact on you having two bars before round 2 says it all.
im just sick and tired of people who have spent one day with her come out and say she not bad seriously.
the main point is anyone who knows leixia or the match up.
will find beating her fairly easy, she had problems even pre patch 1.01 she wasn't that good then either.
i think you may want to spend a bit more time with her against good players, or even at a tourney before coming here arguing with players that know her in and out.

 

[LP]

Lol

 

[FallenAngelII]

She fast and evasive

Except her "evasive" attacks do little damage and do not combo.

And, unlike X she has a good bb

1 frame faster, slightly better frames on hit (but worse on block) and slightly more damage. But I think Leixia had better range.

has the fastest meter gain in the game

Are you still playing 1.01 or something? I don't even think that was true even back then.

has stepkill second only to Natsu

Wait... what?

Leixia's stepkillers:
* AA - i11, 20 damage.combos into AA BE for 49 or so damage on CH. If you don't want to waste meter, AAB does 34 damage. That's it. High. Also, kinda shitty range. Moves that are -11 or more are sometimes safe against Leixia because they have too much pushback.
* 1A+B - Shitty range, i17, 34 damage. Mid.

That's pretty much it. Her other stepkillers are either slow, gimmicky or do very little damage. Her only low stepkiller is an 8wayrun move (11_77A, which inflicts only 14 damage). None of her stepkillers combo into anything except AA, but AA BE is blockable on the last hit unless on Quakestun. None of her stepkillers combo into CE. None of her stepkillers wallsplat or can comob into a wallsplat.

I can name several characters whose stepkillers inflict more damage, can combo for more damage, can combo into CE and/or wallsplat or combo into a wallsplat.

has three of the best launchers in the game (two of which OTG)

Except 3B is unsafe and all three launchers are highly linear and steppable. WR B BE also takes meter and scales like Hell. And FC 3B is so slow you should never use it OTG unless the opponent just whiffed a slowass move that doesn't hit OTG.

has really good pokes

That inflict no damage, don't combo and often puts her at -frames on hit... unless they're mid-mid-mid!

I don't understand how she could possibly be bad.

No damage. Ever.

Also, I wasn't even referring to wr B BE.

Fine, then it's 22_88B you mean? It doesn't hit OTG, it cannot come out of OTG, it's also unsafe and can be grabbed out of. Also, if you weren't taken about WR B BE, then what's her 2nd OTG launcher?! She only has WR B BE and FC 3B OTG. Also note that none of her launchers hit OTG.

Beyond that, I promise, if Thugish does drop her (he likes Viola, apparently) and Mick drops her, I will play Leixia in tournaments as the only reason I didn't play her before was because Thugish was playing her and I really don't like having the same main character as my brothers.

Have fun not winning.

Meter Gain - Just look at how quickly she gains in relation to other characters over the course of a round. I've had near two bars after the first round sometimes with her.

How, are you playing Special Needs patients who constantly block aB feints?

Stepkill - I would easily put her stepkill above probably all of those characters except maybe Cervy and Natsu. You also forgot 44a, wra, and that one high where she steps on one foot.

WR A doesn't combo unless on CH and even then only for little damage unless you want to CE from which you have, like, 3 frames to hit confirm. Also, i18, pretty slow. 44A is friggin' i25, only inflifcts 20 damage, doesn't combo unless on CH and only then for pathetic damage and is -13 on block. Why would you ever use it as a stepkill unless it's also used as a "whiff-punisher" or you think they're about to bust out a High?

I think you're the first person I've ever seen advocate the use of 44A as a stepkill.

Launchers - Her launchers don't give as much damage, but they are much more multipurpose and all give good wakeup.

More "multipurpose"? Because 1 of them techcrouches? 1 of them can be done out of 8wayrun?

Guard Break - This is a more delicate subject to me. Like you said, a lot of her GB stuff has holes in it. Like what I said below (I wrote that before this), I'd rather discuss that in PM though. I mean, it's not super secret stuff or anything but it'd help you to see the way I view the game playing and whatnot...if not, it'd be a nice talk.

What in the world?

Playing solid and outplaying someone are one in the same to me, so I can't comment much on that.

What I think he meant was both players playing solidly, not having the opponent simply playing a shitty game.

I'm not even very good, but in mirrors, despite sucking at them, I'll outread my opponent if they try to pull bullshit on me, even in Laggy Online matches, because I simply know Leixia so well. All of her feints, all of her aborted string BS, frame traps, tech traps, all of it, I'll simply outread them at every turn and punish.

I onced played someone who liked to 6[A] (he used it, like, 4 times in 10 matches). Every friggin' time he 6[A]'d, he ate a punish from me on reaction despite it being online and 3-bar because my brain just automatically said "Look, guaranteed damage!". Needless to say, he stopped using 6[A] after the 4th attempt (and 4th punish).

Likewise, my Leixia opponents never fall for my frame traps. Because when you know the match-up, 90% of Leixia's "evasive moves" and "mix-ups" fly out the window. Leixia mirrors turn into a poking war and whoever accidentally eats a 3B/22_88B/FC3B/WR B BE first due to whiff or being stupid loses.

Even still, almost ever attack in the game has holes in it, but that's why you cover them.

Except Leixia's options for covering her holes are very limited.

Tell me, could you please a single character in the history of fighting games that is like Leixia (fast, safe, poky, shitty damage and combos) that's been any good? And by good I mean "Above Mid Tier".

I would go on to say how I completely disagree with the idea that Viola has some of the best stepkill, but that's something I'd much rather discuss away from prying eyes (lest I want to destroy the status quo!).

What the...?!

but I I honestly don't think she's the worst character in the game and certainly not unplayable.

Name 1 person in this thread who's said that.

but I don't think you'll all see the instantaneous improvement you think you will...

Who said anything about instantaneous?

 

[FallenAngelII]

Not to mention that "What about guard crush?". If she crushes your guard, she gets a decent combo with 1 full bar of meter or 1.5 bars of meter. The same amount of damage some characters can get with hit-confirmable BE combos off a single misread mid.

 

[ZeroEffect317]

Not to mention that "What about guard crush?". If she crushes your guard, she gets a decent combo with 1 full bar of meter or 1.5 bars of meter. The same amount of damage some characters can get with hit-confirmable BE combos off a single misread mid.

44[A] combo is still decent for only one BE.

 

[FallenAngelII]

44[A] combo is still decent for only one BE.

I didn't say her combos off guard break suck. I said that it doesn't really much that Leixia can easily guard crush since the damage she can pull off from a guard is pretty much consistent with what a lot of other characters can get off normal combos (or CH combos).

So basically, when she pulls a guard crush off, she nets a combo that's comparable to most other characters' off normal CHs or combos. Yay!

 

[FallenAngelII]

Leixia needs one strong BAAAM-combo.

She needs strong combos besides Launcher into CE, period.

 

[Kayane]

Who cares about a good guard break when you know Leixia only has around 75 damages guaranteed after it, which are the damages of a normal combo for some competitive characters like Viola, with 3B as a starter!
Why would she need to guard break to make a normal damages combo ?! That's no sense because her best moves to guard break (with the feints) are easier to step moreover...also, you just have to be used to JG otherwise, then it's big punishment.

Who cares about a good meter charging ?! When you know her brave edges are not that as useful than before. :
WS B BE leads to around 55damages instead around 80...
AA BE B+K : less chances to be close enough to the opponent during earthquake to guardcrush. No AA guaranteed anymore.
CE : So you keep 1 bar to have around 75 damages. It's a joke compared to characters who make around 90-100damages with only one brave edge.
You want to use the CE after 66B B ? In competitions, players are trained to step or JG if it's not in counter, trust me. I don't even talk of a character like Ivy who doesn't care and just has to 3B to avoid each of 66B B B options.

I think that Viola and Mitsu for example are muuuuuuuuch better for meter charging than Leixia. Just by doing a 44A or 3B combo, Viola can charge around half meter...lol and Mitsu with a 2K B BE, he's charging very fast too. So using a brave edge to gain another chance to brave edge again...that's what I call a REAL GOOD meter charging. Especially when it leads to mix ups like Mitsu, or when it leads to the "fear" against Viola. You don't want to whiff any move because of her 44A so you limit your game...and this can be a nice mind "killer".

 

[TiZ]

This thread is seriously depressing. I would love to make it work like ZeroEffect wants to, but all this talk makes me more sure every time I come here that it's impossible. I have fun playing Leixia, sure, and I do like her playstyle, but I want to actually win matches. I can't be content with losing.

 

[Therenovator]

i think an urgent SOS message needs to be sent to namco, to avoid this character becoming useless. i feel once players realize her weakness, it will become impossible to win with her at a high level.

 

[FallenAngelII]

Option 2 leads to more than 'measly' damage, and option 3 means they eat minor damage and they still have a critical Soul Gauge. And if you correctly predict option 1...

* A red gauge doesn't guarantee a guard crush from a 1 single 3B. Also, it's pretty measely unless you sacrifice 1 bar or 1.5 bar. Unless it ends the round, you can afford the damage. And if it doesn't end the match, losing the round by Leixia sacrificing 1 bar or 1.5 bars is pretty acceptable (3B guard crush doesn't give 44[A], Leixia's strongest combo starter, BTW).
* And? They eat, what, 10 damage? And of course they still have red meter, and? Again, average damage. And most of Leixia's guard crushes are very linear and steppable.

Getting your guard crushed by Leixia isn't really a huge thing. You'll eat a combo that most characters can dish out through a single CH.

 

[Reptile]

Pretty interesting discussion taking place here. Also, I really like your philosophy/attitude Zeroeffect.

Honestly I don't know what to think about Leixia anymore. She has a lot of useful tools, but she is damn hard to win with anyway once they know the matchup.

I haven't played in tourney yet. But against the really strong offline players that I usually play, I get more wins with Raphael than Leixia.

 

[JustinAkatsuki]

Pretty interesting discussion taking place here. Also, I really like your philosophy/attitude Zeroeffect.

Honestly I don't know what to think about Leixia anymore. She has a lot of useful tools, but she is damn hard to win with anyway once they know the matchup.

I haven't played in tourney yet. But against the really strong offline players that I usually play, I get more wins with Raphael than Leixia.

hmm sounds like when I play with zwei and against people who know the matchup...a damn uphill battle for me.

 

[optymuss]

Yeah when I use voldo its hard if they know the match up. I mean whats the point of a challenge in competition?

 

[Therenovator]

Yeah when I use voldo its hard if they know the match up. I mean whats the point of a challenge in competition?

oh i see, well im sure everyone knows the mitsu match up, doesn't stop him running train on people.
there a difference between a challenge and out right torture.
i dont think you can draw comparison, based on match up knowledge.
knowing the match up with zwei ,voldo just means come up with new tech.
im not sure leixia has the same flexibility in her move set.
so its nearly impossible to win with her vs someone with equal skill and match up knowledge.
playing this version of leixia at any notable tourney, is just playing with the handicapped function enabled.

 

[Therenovator]

i will compare leixia to any other characters, its only fair to do so,since she competing with the rest of the cast except in mirrors.
anyone who mains leixia with a realistic expectation of winning, will not be contempt with this version.
unless of course you don't like winning or just attend tourneys for the experience.

 

[optymuss]

i will compare leixia to any other characters, its only fair to do so,since she competing with the rest of the cast except in mirrors.
anyone who mains leixia with a realistic expectation of winning, will not be contempt with this version.
unless of course you don't like winning or just attend tourneys for the experience.

I think before comparing characters you should compare the players....

Can I has dat list?

 

[FallenAngelII]

I'm so sick and tired of non-Leixia players waltzing into threads and claiming Leixia's really good. Some idiot over at the Xbox Forums (I don't know why I ever wandered into that forum) has been claiming Leixia's 44[A] is really good and that pre-patch you had to JG it in order to stand a chance at winning against Leixia. Now he's also claiming that Leixia has "monstrous oki".

 

[Therenovator]

I'm so sick and tired of non-Leixia players waltzing into threads and claiming Leixia's really good. Some idiot over at the Xbox Forums (I don't know why I ever wandered into that forum) has been claiming Leixia's 44[A] is really good and that pre-patch you had to JG it in order to stand a chance at winning against Leixia. Now he's also claiming that Leixia has "monstrous oki".

its quite funny because, the majority of those that do haven't even picked her up once.
its quite ironic that there all none leixia players, no one who has leixia as a main will agree thats she fine no way.