noodalls investigates JG (and some GI)

Yes, fully charged.

I am holding G when he begins. When he swings, I release and go for the JG (and hit it). Is this still within your known
tolerances?

It happens again with the unblockable at 2:35. I get up from the ground holding G, release, tap, release. Is this supposed to happen?



I am thinking that JG cooldown does not apply if you do not attempt a Just Guard, e.g. I hold guard for 40 frames, release, tap, release and still achieve Just Guard. No?
 
My understanding is that it refers back to when you started holding guard. Like in the first post where I said

noodalls said:
Noodalls investigates JG and GI

Cooldown is another important aspect of JG. You cannot simply press G multiple times and expect to get JG each press.
If you press G on F0, the next time you will be able to JG is from F29 (holding it for 4Fs, likely that for a single press the earliest would be F32, though I didn't actually test this). If you try to repeat JG from F28 it will not work. Interestingly, it doesn't matter whether you held or released your initial G, you can release it on F28 and press G again from F29-32 and JG will still occur.
Click to expand...
 
Still 29 frames... Hm.

So if I "hold guard early", 29 frames passes, giving the illusion of Just Guarding right out of a regular guard.

... Interesting. That means... I can buffer G into the ends of blocked moves, in order to let the 29 frames expire. Or can I? Do G inputs count when you're already in attack animation? (Perhaps only during the buffer window you mentioned earlier?)

But, if I am not already holding guard (29f) when the move starts, I have to leave myself open to Just Guard.

Huh.
 
noodalls said:
I think then that safeJG is a misnomer. It should be something like safe-failedJG. As I said in another thread, you're basically cheating yourself out of JGs.
Click to expand...

Let me see if I can settle this Safe-JG issue once and for all. Say we have 3 players:

Player A always attempts JG with a single tap of G lasting two frames.

Player B has perfected the rhythm of the "Safe-JG" double tap. Every time he attempts a JG, he presses G for two frames, releases for exactly 6 frames, then presses and holds G again.

Player C also uses a "Safe-JG" double tap, but his rhythm is not as good. He always hits the initial G for two frames, but then releases for between 4-6 frames before pressing and holding the second G. For ease of comparison, we'll just assume the average of 5 release frames between his first and second tap for the rest of this example.

Now, using your example of Natsu's i10 A attack, let's take a look at the all the possible timings to attempt a JG.

If all three players start their JG attempt on F1 or earlier we get the following results:

Player A - Hit
Player B - Block
Player C - Block

If all three players start their JG attempt on F2 we get:

Player A - JG
Player B - Block
Player C - Block

If all three players start their JG attempt on F3 we get:

Player A - JG
Player B - JG
Player C - Block

If all three players start their JG attempt on F4 through F7 we get:

Player A - JG
Player B - JG
Player C - JG

If all three players start their JG attempt on F8 or F9 we get:

Player A - Block
Player B - Block
Player C - Block

Any later than F9, and any of our players are getting hit.

noodalls, can you now see how Player B's Safe-JG double tap succeeds almost as often as Player A's single tap?

Can you also agree that while Player C may get JG's a bit less often than Player A, its reasonable that he may consider that a worthwhile trade-off for the extra safety in case he initiates his JG too soon?

Safe-JG is all about rhythm. With perfect rhythm, it makes a minimal sacrifice in the JG window length to guaranty that the user does not eat the attack if timing is too early. With less than perfect rhythm, its a trade-off, but it certainly doesn't completely ruin your chances of getting a JG.
 
DrakeAldan said:
If this is so, when it comes to Natsu BB, why is it so hard to regular block B, and then Just Guard the second B?
Click to expand...

Read this and replied a little too quickly. Looking into it, there are just 2Fs where you can successfully release G to get JG having blocked the initial hit.

 
Ooook. So it is harder on some strings. That's what it felt like.

Move out in the open, no problem. Block first B JG second, can't do it to save my life.

Thanks. noodalls saves the day again-
 
3g53G Is a Safe Low Just Gaurd.

Use Yoshi doing 214A. or Asta 1AA. Practice stepping/8wayrun into 3g JG. Similar timing.

You can also practice Low Block into Low JG (the first low block can be a S.mid or S.low).

More times you're better of jumping, but if you dont recognize it in time, you can do this.
 
Is there a way to check if the +5 frames of recovery on the attacker is from hitstop? It seems like there is hitstop on guard burst and JG... Any way to test that?
 
BrewtusBibulus said:
Also if you hit G fast it will only cancel the end of the JG window and not eliminate the JG window... right?
Click to expand...
You mean if you press G during the JG window? The window ends if you hit G again. Or did you mean something else?

noodalls said:
Read this and replied a little too quickly. Looking into it, there are just 2Fs where you can successfully release G to get JG having blocked the initial hit.
Click to expand...
So does this mean you can't do JG inputs during recovery animations?

Say your attack finishes frame 20, and you're expecting a counterattack frame 23.

Can you hold G from frames 16 to 20 and get JG? Or do you need to wait until frame 21 to hit G?
 
If you tap G, but aren't in a position to guard, does that mean you can't JG within the next few frames? For example, if I'm trying to stand up quick so I can JG an unblockable, can I tap G to stand and then JG right away? Because I technically haven't guarded... I don't know a different way to stand as fast as possible, except by pushing A+B+K, but I can't get in that habbit.
 
Is it possible to JG CEs? I know it's possible to JG UA's but I can't confirm if it works on CE's.
 
Yeah I haven't been able to do it once. I was starting to wonder if the timing might be like Street Fighter III: Third Strike where you have to type in the parry command the frame BEFORE the Super activates.
 
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