Opinion: Where Do Fighting Games Go From Here?

Japan comparisons don't pertain to this argument, as their standard of FG game play is clearly above everyone else. My rants was directed at international players who hide behind VF (even though they probably suck compared to the japs) because they are not good enough to beat you in 'popular games'. Using the japs as an example, is a crutch, and you know it.

As for balance, where is there a major tournament that has been won by Jeffry, Vanessa, Shun, Goh or Kage??? If so, it'd be a one time aberration I believe. Again, you can only bring up japanese players, because the rest of the world sucks at it, so why are non-japanese players going on about it?

BTW I play VF, and am proficient in it; I play Eileen, and I know I suck, but I am qualified to judge it imo.


cha cha
 
BlackDragon37 said:
You clearly don't have much of an idea of how VF works.

What looks like "70 unnecessary layers" is just simple stuff (apart from the throw breaks, in which case the reasoning behind them is legitimately justified). The only reason they look heard is because you are forced to look past its blandness to appreciate the system. No casual gamer would wanna do that. Yet they wouldn't be able to put their finger on it. So they blame the system's depth.
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I'm of the opinion that no matter what Sega does, the game will be described as bland. After match interactive sex parties? It'd still be considered bland.
 
I didn't even know they still played Virtua Fighter....
I think Budokai Tekanachi 3 should have gotten more attention, imo it was fairly balanced and fun to play.
 
AkazukinChaCha said:
As for balance, where is there a major tournament that has been won by Jeffry, Vanessa, Shun, Goh or Kage??? If so, it'd be a one time aberration I believe. Again, you can only bring up japanese players, because the rest of the world sucks at it, so why are non-japanese players going on about it?
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Jeffry won NYG7

http://virtuafighter.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/223254#Post223254

23 players makes a major tournament for VF, right? (Otherwise, you're just tossing out the results of VF being played at a high level for no reason other than a major US tourney flat out can't be cited which is silly. Game mechanics don't magically change across an ocean.)
 
I actually enjoy watching VF matches more than SC matches, I just couldn't justify putting the effort in for the throw breaks. But the flash doesn't come naturally, some of the more advanced combos look cool, but aren't made apparent, even with VF4's comprehensive training mode.

Interesting article overall, but just judging from a lot of the responses in this thread, I don't think there IS a way to bridge that gap. Problem is, a lot of the players that aren't already interested in fighting games, DO think pulling off a hadouken is hard. This concept seems foreign to us, because we've been doing it for so long. But what if we make it easier to do? We alienate people who want the challenge of learning and practicing a fighting game, and maybe becoming competitive in it.

Street Fighter specific, only thing I could think off the top of my head is a more in depth tutorial mode. The challenge mode in this game that lists off combos is a joke, there's no explanation given on how to perform these. I had to look online to find out that you need to dash cancel after landing a Focus attack to pull off certain combos. I shouldn't have to separate myself from the game like that to figure out a mechanic like that. That's one thing that VF4 did try to do with it's combo training, pointing out mistakes you were making (too fast, buffer this in sooner, etc) and even that fell short in some areas.

If a game makes flashy moves easy to pull off, but doesn't show the player the numerous ways that flash can be formed into a strategy, the experience seems like nothing more than two dudes beating the crap out of each other. I'm sure you've heard this from people before, saying there's nothing to fighting games, you just beat someone up and move on. In order to give these games staying power, they need to provide a way of illustrating the layers of depth to new players, beyond just giving instructions on how to do moves.
 
KDZaster said:
Oh, and VF is overrated garbage.
Any game that needs to needlessly over-complicate itself so god damn much is crying for attention.
Simplicity is the starting step to perfection. VF ran the opposite way.
VF basically just tries to take anything from another game it likes, and ruins it by adding exactly 70 unnecessary layers to it.
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Yes... so lets play SF4, where the "skill" in the game seems to be based on a player's ability to do the inputs, rather than the ability of a player to read Yomi layers. Almost EVERY move/combo in VF is easy to do (except for rare instances of just-frames like Akira Knee and Byakko). The depth to the game comes from the players, not the complexity of the inputs. Virtua Fighter is actually a very simple game... its only on the extremely high-end scale (which as you said, noobs don't care about), where the game actually gets complicated...

Amazing though, for someone who touts "yomi layers" as much as you do... to not like a game thats based completely on them.
 
imo, SC is technically simple and draws almost all of its depth from "yomi".

SF is very different, being technically one of the hardest games out there, thus mind games won't come into play until far later when actual execution of moves when and where you want them isn't as much of a concern. Reading your opponent's mind doesn't matter if you lack the dexterity to take advantage of the opening. In this situation, SF is actually more like reality, but I find SC more fun as a game.

The question becomes, do you want a game that's more realistic or more fun?
 
No man, 4D. Then, like, you'd get sprayed with water when you get knocked into a puddle and your chair will shake when you get hit into a wall combo.
 
Where fighting games go from here, is totally dependant on where you are in the world.

Here in the US, Im gonna make the assumption(feel free to swat it down if any of you believe I am wrong)Smash, Tekken, and Street Fighter are the 3 franchises that do extremely well here, they have the flash and the sales which only add to the hype.(not gonna talk about Smash, the game creeps under alot of other fighting gamer's skin and pisses them off. For the record, I consider it a fighter) Doesn't matter weither the games balenced or what not, I mean SHIT Tekken 4 had people playing it (Although I wasn't around the SC scene then, would anyone care to agree, that T4 being a shitpiece in people's eyes then may have turned them to SC2?)and Jin was a name you saw in more top 5s than a fanboys blog.

Street Fighter has legacy behind it. Its a household name. SF2 started something big. And not to mention the Alpha and Vs. Series. (The VS being EXTREMELY popular, MAHVEL anyone?) I mean shit Super Turbo just got a facelift and MvC2 is STILL played today.

So where does it go from here? Well as sad as I am to say and admit it, for the mainstream to give a flying fuck so it doesn't live solely off of fan support(both the casual and hardcore). Online play on these games are gonna have to up their shit. Double time. With great examples of Online play, SF4 showed us online play could be amazing, HDR showed us you could have great online play WITH a lobby system, and VF5 showed us, a 3D fighter online, could have a solid netcode. Arcades are more successful in other countries(like, Japan) so isn't really an issue there (plus, fiber fucking optics yay). Here in the US, most arcades are gone...FUCKING GONE! Hell, your lucky to spot a fighter in lobby, breakroom, or movie theater for the most part. And online play is making leaps and bounds with every fighter that gives a fuck, but the ones that don't and have a solid name under their belt. That's what hurts.(*coughsc4cough*)

Alot of series get dumbed down for 2 reasons. 1)To attract a new crowd, create a larger fan base(so they'll fall right into place and buy expansion after expansion or sequel after sequel(right there with all of us <3).) 2)Online Play.
When it comes to fighters it really hits when the casual and hardcore collide, and I along with just about everyone on this forum has seen it. And usually it is never pretty, resulting in arguements, name calling, alot of GTFOs and STFUs over trival shit such as which character or what CONTROLLER. But the bread winner is telling them that playing online is garbage, its right here when the casual says "Fuck this." and we, as a whole lose competition and attention.(possibly a fanbase, word of mouth spreads quick)

As truthful as that comment is to SC4(the online, really is pure garbage) we have come to the conclusion that it is a part of the game and this very site acknowledges that with Online Ranking tournaments. Which brings me to my next point, the community is what keeps the candle lit, long after the smoke, mirrors and flare have worn off. And we as loyal fans of the series, be it casual or hardcore, we'll try to do Namco-Bandai's dirty work again with their next title in the series. Pulling them into the next installment, cause we love the game.

So where do fighters go? Where ever WE, the Fans. Decide to take it.

ALL THIS, is just one fat guy's opinion.
 
Jaxel said:
Yes... so lets play SF4, where the "skill" in the game seems to be based on a player's ability to do the inputs, rather than the ability of a player to read Yomi layers.
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Right, because heaven forbid there exist TWO people that are competent at execution...
 
I played SF4 and I got two impressions.

A. Nostalgia helps that game far more than any of its fans are willing to admit.

B. It fucking hard to do inputs for SF with the 360 controller.

Cammy's ultra will just refuse to come out in that game, no matter what I do. Oh sure I can do 3 iGDRs in a row and Kilik's festival of the damned has been done so many times I don't even have to thin kabout it.

But SF4 is apparently much MUCH pickier than SC when it comes to what constitutes a quarter circle.
 
There are some things I do agree with on Sirlin while there are many things I disagree with. However, I do think Capcom should be called out for claiming they made this game to be user friendly and simply for people to get into when it clearly isn't.
 
Marginal said:
The only real issue there is that it raises the entry level bar for no real reason.
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Hmm, the execution is in general a lot more lenient than ST, and for high level play, it isn't really that big of an issue. No matter how you look at it though, execution has nothing to do with yomi. And two people who haven't invested the time to learn combos can still play a game with plenty of yomi, so I find all this complaining to be quite stupid.

Is it accessible to play at a high level? No way, since the average player would just be so far behind in damage output. Can someone pick it up and have fun and play with mind games? Yes definitely.
 
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