Presidential Debate is on!

I wanna hear an ethics questions.

I don't like the fact that they both sound like obvious idealists now. We need questions that actually show their differences more.
 
Is it just me or is the stage they are on kinda blah-ish. I want to hear about Immigration, that would be fun to watch.
 
I actually see a split.

McCain definitely is showing his Realist jacket with that response. This is definitely a Cold War mentality.
 
I dunno about u guys, but Mccain's foreing policy sounds alot like Bush's cowboy tactics. going by this debate.
 
It sounds like 1970s Chile tactics to me.

It seems extremely cynical how he approaches this. I would agree with it more if it were a bipolar world... but I think this will ostracize the US right now.
 
Amazon.com: The Revolution: A Manifesto: Ron Paul: Books

People NEED to buy this book. People don't realise how much of a detriment government intervention is to any country. In the United States, our history classes are designed to teach us that the Free Market is inherintly bad, while supporting our government whole heartedly is good. Meanwhile, these are the EXACT teachings that our country was founded AGAINST. This country was not founded in favor of Democracy, it was founded AGAINST Democracy. The founding fathers had several principals, mainly that our government shouldn't be spying on us, it is us who should be spying on them. But our government lies to us, they violate our civil rights; but because our history teachers teach as they were taught before them, the average citizen in this country doesn't question it.

But going back to the whole Free Market issue... everyone is saying after these past couple of weeks that the stock market crash is proof that the Free Market and Laize Faire system is a failure. But in truth its not, what has been failing is our government's continual need to interfere and try to regulate our Free Market system. Poverty has been universally decreasing in countries that have a free market system without government intervention. Botswana, the freest economy in Africa, is the most prosperous country in Africa. People in Chile have a standard of living that rivals even the richest countries. There are many other examples that prove that the Free Market works...

But let me put it another way... something thats easier to understand. John wants a specific item; Bob creates that item. Without the free market, John would walk over to Bob, shoot him in the face, and then take the item by force. A very violent approach, and everyone loses in the end because John no longer has a source to get said item. With the free market, John would walk over to Bob, offer him some money for the item, and from then they can barter on price. Then in the future, John would have the oppurtunity to buy future items from Bob. Now lets say Jane shows up, she is Bob's boss (ie: government). Jane tells Bob, "you can't sell that item to John, I dont like him". The so called "free" market isn't free at that point and Bob gets shot in the face... Notice that Bob gets shot in the face, not Jane.

Free Market = World Peace
 
wow, so good you had to post the book twice jaxel, lol

after reading that book i'm really against the 700bilion bailout. everyone really should read it.
 
Jaxel said:
Amazon.com: The Revolution: A Manifesto: Ron Paul: Books

People NEED to buy this book. People don't realise how much of a detriment government intervention is to any country. In the United States, our history classes are designed to teach us that the Free Market is inherintly bad, while supporting our government whole heartedly is good. Meanwhile, these are the EXACT teachings that our country was founded AGAINST. This country was not founded in favor of Democracy, it was founded AGAINST Democracy. The founding fathers had several principals, mainly that our government shouldn't be spying on us, it is us who should be spying on them. But our government lies to us, they violate our civil rights; but because our history teachers teach as they were taught before them, the average citizen in this country doesn't question it.

But going back to the whole Free Market issue... everyone is saying after these past couple of weeks that the stock market crash is proof that the Free Market and Laize Faire system is a failure. But in truth its not, what has been failing is our government's continual need to interfere and try to regulate our Free Market system. Poverty has been universally decreasing in countries that have a free market system without government intervention. Botswana, the freest economy in Africa, is the most prosperous country in Africa. People in Chile have a standard of living that rivals even the richest countries. There are many other examples that prove that the Free Market works...

But let me put it another way... something thats easier to understand. John wants a specific item; Bob creates that item. Without the free market, John would walk over to Bob, shoot him in the face, and then take the item by force. A very violent approach, and everyone loses in the end because John no longer has a source to get said item. With the free market, John would walk over to Bob, offer him some money for the item, and from then they can barter on price. Then in the future, John would have the oppurtunity to buy future items from Bob. Now lets say Jane shows up, she is Bob's boss (ie: government). Jane tells Bob, "you can't sell that item to John, I dont like him". The so called "free" market isn't free at that point and Bob gets shot in the face... Notice that Bob gets shot in the face, not Jane.

Free Market = World Peace
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So we have a historian/ great thinker eh? And i think i know what ur getting at Jaxel, next time i got to Barnes and Nobles im going to get that book.
 
I will agree that I need to read it. I personally wanted to read it.

I will admit that I personally have a problem with a free market. Without maintenance, I think society would mirror nature. In nature, species tend to die off. I think the beginnings of our government fail to predict the nature of large corporations and the nature of multi-billion dollar monopolies.

Maybe reading this book would change my mind. I am personally against government intervention in a time of prosperity, but I believe that that we can attribute the economic issues of the late 19th century and the early 20th century to a problem with a free market. I am sure that Ron Paul probably addresses those claims.
 
Ron Paul is against any government intervention, he is pretty much a libratarian/pre neo-con republican. Best example is last week when he spoke against the bailout.
 
This reminds me of how the USA took the Philippines. We need underhanded tactics to defeat our enemies again. Against the Islamic there, we soaked our bullets in pig grease to get them to give up. That is the kind of tactic to lessen morale to fight.

I forget what about it is bad for Islam, (someone can fill that in), but I do remember that it had something to do with not going to heaven if any peace of pig was in them when they died.

I have an idea what Ron Paul's basic arguments are, but I would like to read the book to see how he believes his opinion in contrary to the US history around the time of the Great Depression. Most Historians would disagree with that approach, and I am interested to see what kind of argument he makes.
 
divinechaos97 said:
The Indians, the ones that are actually from India. Isn't it banned in their country or is it some other middle east country that banned bacon?
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I think religions that forbid pork products can all make an acception for bacon. Once upon a time Catholics weren't allowed to eat meat on fridays year round, then Jon Paul II changed that.

Think about it, when was the last time you were angry enough to wage war after eating a piece of bacon?

btw if we decide to adopt my bacon policy the UN would have to start it off by nuking Canada off the map for their abomination they call bacon.
 
McCain is really pissing me off in this debate... He's constantly falling back on the "The United States is the greatest nation and we will survive on that simple fact" bullshit statement. Its a political statement and I'm going to post a simple quote by an EXTREMELY FAMOUS PERSON that explains why these statements from McCain are bullshit.

In Freedom and Federalism, Morley quoted FAMOUS PERSON as saying that "a powerful national government may encroach considerably upon the liberty of individuals as well as the different States, and assume the responsibility for it, without weakening the Empire idea, if only every citizen recognizes such measures as means for making his nation greater." Morley then elaborated on what FAMOUS PERSON meant:

In other words, the problem of empire-building is essentially mystical. It must somehow foster the impression that a man is great in the degree that his nation is great; that a German is superior to a Belgian; an Englishman to an Irishman; an American, to a Mexican; merely because the first-named countries are in each case more powerful than their comparatives. And people who have no individual stature whatsover are willing to accept this poisonous nonsense because it gives them a sense of importance without the trouble of any personal effort.
Click to expand...

Meanwhile, McCain is going on and on about the greatness of America, and how we need to stand behind the greatness of America in the hopes that we can stop a future Nazi regime. I wasn't going to mention who said this famous quote, I wanted to let people guess at it. But as I was writing this post, McCain used the Nazi word in his speech and further expaned, "The great honor in my life, was to always put my country first". So according to this famous person, poisonous nationalism leads to giving undue power to government and leads to disaster...

So who said this? Why, none other than the leader of the Nationalist Socialist Party (NAZI)... Adolf Hitler.

whitey said:
Ron Paul is against any government intervention, he is pretty much a libratarian/pre neo-con republican. Best example is last week when he spoke against the bailout.
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I've never seen anyone who hates neo-conservatives more than Ron Paul. He calls himself an "Old Right Republican", not a Libertarian.
 
Jaxel said:
McCain is really pissing me off in this debate... He's constantly falling back on the "The United States is the greatest nation and we will survive on that simple fact" bullshit statement. Its a political statement and I'm going to post a simple quote by an EXTREMELY FAMOUS PERSON that explains why these statements from McCain are bullshit.



Meanwhile, McCain is going on and on about the greatness of America, and how we need to stand behind the greatness of America in the hopes that we can stop a future Nazi regime. I wasn't going to mention who said this famous quote, I wanted to let people guess at it. But as I was writing this post, McCain used the Nazi word in his speech and further expaned, "The great honor in my life, was to always put my country first". So according to this famous person, poisonous nationalism leads to giving undue power to government and leads to disaster...

So who said this? Why, none other than the leader of the Nationalist Socialist Party (NAZI)... Adolf Hitler.



I've never seen anyone who hates neo-conservatives more than Ron Paul.
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Why did i see that coming? I mean all the NAZI mentions i had noooo idea that was coming.
 
... Nationalism.

This is the tool of Fascist government, and though people do not want to admit it, the United States government had almost a fascist control on us from WW2 until the end of the Cold War. McCain is speaking from an era that promoted American Exceptionalism as an alternative to fear of the Soviet Union.
 
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