Pyrrha Ω - Dealing With Backstep

Bean

[08] Mercenary
As you know, movement in SCV has been improved significantly compared to SCIV (backstep and sidestep). And fighting an opponent who constantly backdashes to avoid your mixups and to create space can be very annoying when you play a short range character like Pyrrha O.

What many players do when they are at disadv. is to use 4~G, it's a backstep that "cancels" into block. By doing that, they will evade any fast pokes with short range, and at the same time be able to block moves with longer reach that are slower (very effective against Pat btw). If you don't know how to deal with this kind of play, it quickly gets very frustrating.

So, lets say that you block a (safe) move/hit them with a poke and get a few frames adv. how do you deal with 4~G? The most obvious thing to do is to run up to your opponent and do your mixup instead of doing it right away. Personally I don't really like to rely on this kind of play since you "sacrifice" your advantage by first running a small distance, and if they anticipate it/like to press buttons, they can hit you with an attack. But of course, doing something like this can be a good way to mixup your opponent if you're not too predictable, and sometimes it may even be necessary.

It is however possible to hit them out of their backstep with certain moves if you pay attention to the frames. When you do 4~G, you are not able to block for 10 frames, which is a lot safer than stepping. This means that,

at +2, AA will stop backstep (very rare situation since almost no moves in the game are +2/-2 on hit/block, I only mention it because 4B is +2 on block, but even then it's character dependent)

at +4 (BB, 6A, 3A etc. on hit), NS B will stop backstep

at +6 or more (AA, 6K, 2A etc. on hit), DNS B and 6K will stop backstep. Also, keep in mind that many of the pokes in the game (AA/BB/2A etc.) are -6 on block, so the same applies if you block any of those.

Of course, throwing out "random" DNS B's is a bit risky, and you should be careful how/when you do it. But the reward for hitting a backstepping opponent with CH DNS B is way too good to ignore.

Also remember that if they try to backwalk, you can just use 66B to hit them out of it, very simple and effective.
 

Belial

King of Hundred Swords
I think most ppl cant get used to new movement system and keep bd bc its the safest way to move. However you cant do much from bd its pretty pointless since u dont really evade anything and cant punish stuff you evade too. So if the point is to drag opponent into guessing game of mixup right away or dash mixup(and try to interrupt if the do the latter) its retardedly low reward and just lame. So ye it is annoying but only as long as you dont see it from math perspective. Id compare it to stopping in the middle of a string to try a mixup or 2A instead of finishing the string. Lame but annoying at low level
 

Suirad

[10] Knight
I've found NS K is a decent choice against backstep, especially since executing DNS B at full speed can be inconsistent. Running at opponent is not as dangerous an option as suggested, because you can cancel forward motion into guard if you see opponent start doing something much faster than for motion in other directions. Taking an opportunity to work their gauge is another viable option, since a lot of Ω's ranged moves have decent break values. If you mix options against backstep they tend to synergize well, for example, if you throw a 66B anticipating a backstep one time, next time they are less likely to attack a run-in since they don't want to get launched.

Also as to belial's point, I think it is still effective from a risk reduction perspective, if you have a life lead you might not care about reward as much as just thwarting opponent's high damage options. Since poking appears more dangerous in V, backstep G becomes the better option by comparison for playing safe. Obviously if you have a nearby ring edge backstepping might be risky in it's own right though.
 

NuProphett

[09] Warrior
I have been having trouble playing Omega against strong players who know how to "effectively" backstep, so I really welcome some of the strategies here. Going to put them to the test.
 

Bean

[08] Mercenary
I think most ppl cant get used to new movement system and keep bd bc its the safest way to move. However you cant do much from bd its pretty pointless since u dont really evade anything and cant punish stuff you evade too. So if the point is to drag opponent into guessing game of mixup right away or dash mixup(and try to interrupt if the do the latter) its retardedly low reward and just lame. So ye it is annoying but only as long as you dont see it from math perspective. Id compare it to stopping in the middle of a string to try a mixup or 2A instead of finishing the string. Lame but annoying at low level


I can agree that if you only look at it from this point of view, the reward is not very good. On the other hand, there are other aspects of backstepping, such as creating space. For a character like nightmare, who has good range and excels at whiff punishing, it is a very good tool to use.

I've found NS K is a decent choice against backstep, especially since executing DNS B at full speed can be inconsistent. Running at opponent is not as dangerous an option as suggested, because you can cancel forward motion into guard if you see opponent start doing something much faster than for motion in other directions. Taking an opportunity to work their gauge is another viable option, since a lot of Ω's ranged moves have decent break values. If you mix options against backstep they tend to synergize well, for example, if you throw a 66B anticipating a backstep one time, next time they are less likely to attack a run-in since they don't want to get launched.

Yeah, NS K also works to a certain degree, too bad it hits high. Regarding DNS B, you need to be able to buffer it fast enough to make it i16, which I agree can be a bit difficult. It's definitely something you should spend time on in Training to get it more consistently. The reason I don't like running up and blocking is not because of the (rather low) risk, but rather because you give away your initiative to your opponent, without being able to capitalize on it. But like I said earlier, it can be good to use depending on the situation, and sometimes it's necessary.
 

Subjective

[08] Mercenary
I'm now thinking this is a big problem for Omega-- getting in on an opponent that is stepping at long range. Her best long range moves are 66B and DNS B, but they're both extremely linear. DNS A just isn't that effective either, and running K can only be used in certain situations. Any other suggestions?
 

Paragon049

[10] Knight
I'm now thinking this is a big problem for Omega-- getting in on an opponent that is stepping at long range. Her best long range moves are 66B and DNS B, but they're both extremely linear. DNS A just isn't that effective either, and running K can only be used in certain situations. Any other suggestions?
Running in and blocking is a lot better than you might think. It's pretty much the only "safe" way to close distance.
 

jay_simon

[08] Mercenary
dns a is very effective, just don't do it from full screen lol. its definitely her best move to thwart predicted stepping from a distance, the hitbox is huge.
 

Suirad

[10] Knight
haha belial. More like we need to replace the contents with the obnoxiously slow anti backstep possibilities available now. Even 66B and 66B+K appear legit options.
 

Zekki

[10] Knight
Lol. At least I still get to backstep when you get into my range at first, hopefully throw out a 3(B) b:A on dat ayuss!
 
what's killing me is that 236K and people sidestepping it. there aren't many kicks that can be side stepped at close range that i know of by P.O. seems to be pretty bad. especially against natsu or leixia. maybe it's just bad luck. i don't know.
 

Suirad

[10] Knight
I wouldn't use NS K much post-patch. If you need to nail backstep there should be a number of options for most situations available now
 

WetJuiceBoxx

[08] Mercenary
NS K is pretty fast to catch someone from backsteping when your in their face, but im sure there are other moves that can do that aswell.
 

geejay008

[09] Warrior
NS K is pretty fast to catch someone from backsteping when your in their face, but im sure there are other moves that can do that aswell.

...or just DNS B:4 instead of NSK if you're looking to catch backsteppers... its safer...

I only really use NSK for RO or wallsplat... hell, NS B4 is better for wallsplats tbh... just that NSK is easier to spaz in the heat of the moment so to speak... >_<
 

WetJuiceBoxx

[08] Mercenary
...or just DNS B:4 instead of NSK if you're looking to catch backsteppers... its safer...

I only really use NSK for RO or wallsplat... hell, NS B4 is better for wallsplats tbh... just that NSK is easier to spaz in the heat of the moment so to speak... >_<

Well if they are trying to move back from you they really cant block fast enough in the middle of walking back and its fast. But NS B4 is also good too, and DNS B4 can actually be seen and blocked if the opponent is smart enough.
 

geejay008

[09] Warrior
Well if they are trying to move back from you they really cant block fast enough in the middle of walking back and its fast. But NS B4 is also good too, and DNS B4 can actually be seen and blocked if the opponent is smart enough.

Framedata-wise, NS K is just as fast as DNS B... but the fact that DNS B covers more range AND it hits mid imho makes it a better choice for countering backsteps... I'd only really use NS K over DNS B either if its RO/Wall behind opponent... or for the 'surprise' factor.

NS K is still a good fail-safe option for RO/Wallsplat compared to NS B4 though... at least until you get them JFs down... =_=
 

WetJuiceBoxx

[08] Mercenary
Yea i suck with my framedata in this game, dont feel like studying for some reason. but with that said i guess i will stick to DNS B, but i do love to use NS K for those wall splats over NS B4. But thanks for the framedata info on NS K=DNS B
 

geejay008

[09] Warrior
lol! im not good with actual frame data either tbh (ive already got WAAY too many numbers to remember as it is >_<)... i just had a feeling they're the same speed. SA wiki just confirmed it... ^_~