Raphael Frame Data Discussion

Well arn't a lot of stance transitions vulnerable to natus's AA ?

Im' not familiar with nightmare's i9 NSS K, mitus's i9 MST B or seig's i10 SCH K, but not all their stance entries are + on block.
 
The frame data guide has 1B listed as a TC. When does it TC? I haven't re-read the whole thread to see when it does but I don't think I've ever TCed something with it (granted I think it's a lousy move so I don't do it often).
 
Pre-patch 1B used to TC but I guess they determined it a glitch. It wasn't too great a choice for a TC anyways.
 
Yep. 1.02 patch removed the TC from 1B. TC started around i18 or something iirc. Don't know why they even bothered to remove it. It was useless anyway.
 
I guess that lets us know that Namco doesn't actually attach hit boxes to the character model because 1B never actually crouches. How that could glitch if they have the models set up properly is beyond me.
 
Hurtboxes and hitboxes are separate from the actual rendered layer (character models, etc) that you see. It's especially noticeable with moves like Astaroth's 44A, which has bullshit phantom range that extends a good foot past the tip of his axe.
 
Ok maybe its not relevant, but looking at the frame data, I actually think that prepBB and 6BB are the same speed (i12) but the discrepancy is actually prepAB is 1 frame slower than 6AB (i16 vs i15). Obviously this doesn't matter as much, because either prepBB is faster than normal 6BB by 1 frame, or prepAB is 1 frame slower than 6AB, so you'll just have to adjust the stance entry frames by +1 or not if you want to undersatnd how to use this information.


For more relevant news, after messing around with JG, it appears that 66(B) when jG'd is at least -20, since you can tag 2p raph with a 66K before he can SE evade the high. As long as jG'd 6AB is -5 , (or below) its the earliest prep entry that can actually prep4 AGI raph's 6BB (i12 so the aGI starts at frame 7!). Tested the -5 by inputting jG into grab vs 6A(B)~prepBB, which means the i17 grab trades with the i12 prepBB.

So to sum it up, prep4 aGI is rather slow for an aGI but its tricky to balance because the aGI is considered too "early" for most of prep on block, and yet its too slow if you whiff a prep entry. For example, how many times have you whiffed 3(B), and inputted prep4 hoping that i'll save your butt from an opponent's 3B ? If the aGI frames started earlier it may be the difference.
 
prep 4 aGI wouldn't be tricky to balance at all, if they'd give an extra huge gi-window, covering the entire animation, it only gi's mid B's so it wouldn't be too strong imo.
 
Evil_Zutus said:
prep 4 aGI wouldn't be tricky to balance at all, if they'd give an extra huge gi-window, covering the entire animation, it only gi's mid B's so it wouldn't be too strong imo.
Click to expand...

Actually it gi's high mid AND low verticals but I do agree that they should give it a very big frame window. I was also thinking of making Prep 4 aGI high and mid horizontals and maybe giving up low verticals but Im not sure. WuHT, your opinion on this would be greatly appreciated.
 
WuHT said:
If the aGI frames started earlier it may be the difference.
Click to expand...

As usual Namco dropped the ball on this because if they're quick enough they can get their 3B (and why the hell do SOOOOO many 3B's seem to TC?) in before P4 will work. So even if you KNOW they will do it you can't use p4 to retaliate based upon the setup. They have to be late in their retalitory 3B or Raph gets hurt even if he "guessed" right. p4 should be available from frame 1 and work for like 10 frames at least given the risk Raph has to incur to get it.
 
Real_Bojack said:
p4 should be available from frame 1 and work for like 10 frames at least given the risk Raph has to incur to get it.
Click to expand...

AND, you have to remember that all you get is prepAB after an AGI (30 damage big whoop!) or prepK BE if you burn meter. The rewards aren't exceptional, unless you get a prepK BE wallsplat. If raph's rewards are low to mediocre, then the risk for prep4 should be really low (early and long lasting aGI window). I totally agree
 
WuHT said:
AND, you have to remember that all you get is prepAB after an AGI (30 damage big whoop!) or prepK BE if you burn meter. The rewards aren't exceptional, unless you get a prepK BE wallsplat. If raph's rewards are low to mediocre, then the risk for prep4 should be really low (early and long lasting aGI window). I totally agree
Click to expand...

PA+B won't connect before they can block?

One thing they can do is make it aGI everything, I do mean everything like regular GI. Give it a fast start up and generous window but make it so Raph cannot follow up after it in prep and give him perhaps a + 2 or 3 advantage so he can push their attack to the side and still press advantage w/o getting damage because then attacking Raph during prep becomes problematic to land damage and gives Raph various outs and set ups and helps him get breathing room to get into SE or prep loop or other shit he might pull.

Namco won't do this though............ ever.
 
Prep A+B is guaranteed after Prep 4 aGI. It's definitely worth taking the Prep K BE though when you have the meter.
 
Slade said:
Prep A+B is guaranteed after Prep 4 aGI.
Click to expand...
Generally true. If you catch them with the later aGI frames, you can get Prep A+B guaranteed (even SE A). However, if you get them with the earlier aGI frames, they can actually block Prep A+B.

You can test with jG against prepA(B)~prep4 using raph's i12 6B (prepA+B after prep4 aGI is blockable) while i16 3B (prepA+B after prep4 aGI is unblockable).

Just evidence of poor testing on raph. Should at least design prep4 to guarantee prepA+B everytime (by simply reducing the recovery frames of prep4 rather than increasing the aGI stun on the opponent.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom