Raphael General Discussion/Q&A Thread

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Party Wolf

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General discussion for Raphael

[notice]Renamed to "Raphael General Discussion/Q&A Thread"

-Mage[/notice]
 
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WuHT

Premium Moderator
The thing that I really want tested is the frames for the B+K and A+K active windows.

Looking at youtube's SC2 Raph command list:


I thought the 214 stance fit his style with 214B/prepI B and prepII B specifically looking like a very typical raphael move.

Lol it looks really strange how his 66A+B doesnt' launch them behind Raph now. Funny how they kept this cancel, out of all the crappy guard-cancels to possibly have.

his 33B looks more like a high attack compared to SC5's 22B

That B+G grab's ringout distance was insane

I swear his sword got shorter in the later series. Looking at SC5's version of moves like 11A and 44A, and you go holy smokes. I can't do a screen shot comparison, but if you compare the 2nd hit of SC5 BB and one of SC2's thrust attacks, you'll see its about 20% shorter in SC5.
 

Real_Bojack

[10] Knight
Active windows for A+K and B+K are like frame 1~20ish or so. The window is quite large but more importantly it isn't out in no man's land frame wise like SCV B+K or 4A+B. Just do it some time before you get hit and you'll be fine and it CAN interrupt a good deal of strings instead of near useless SCV aGI.

33B is a true mid except sometimes during step the characters would sway heavily and it COULD in situations hit high. The trade off is that it goes into his best over all Prep stance and can be done from an advancing 8wr.

Yup, 66A+B, basically trash since day one and it's going the distance in his moveset Rocky style.

Other things to note is that now Raph has a TON of moves that hit grounded.

A2A
1BB
1K
2K
BB
3B
FC3B
66A+B (I think)
3A+B
236A+B
Running slide of course
Prep A A
214 A
11A
1A
2A (yes, only sM 2A in the game that'll hit grounded IIRC)
FC2B
WSB
22B
I might have missed some, you get the point anyways.

Better yet, a couple of those are M instead of relying on 66B+K or 66A+B to hit M and grounded.
 

WuHT

Premium Moderator
good post, thats actually something I didn't think about (considering how much super TC is an annoyance against SC4/SC5 Raph)

Anyways I took some screen captures and I'd like some people hopefully less biased than me to compare (the scale of the game camera to how close of the characters are has changed, but i'm comparing character height (or particular body parts) to Raph's sword blade length.:
Raph SC5.Prep.png
SC2.Raph.prepI.png
SC2.Raph.prepIII.png
SC2.SC5.comparison.Raph.Sword.png

Thoughts?
 

Real_Bojack

[10] Knight
It very well could be that they've shortened his sword. They've done a heap of other shit to hold him back so I wouldn't be surprised.

I'm VERY excited to get A6, 1B, 4A, and 236/214 back among other things. Also 1K instead of 11K etc. I think those who grew up on SCV Raph will find SC2 Raph MUCH easier to handle in general execution wise. Also no QS buffer frames so your 8wr moves will come out much faster.
 

Black_Dog

[09] Warrior
While I do believe they shortened his reach, in both versions of quick parade, the blades look equally long to me. Wouldn't a comparison of SCII AB and SCV 6AB be easier to judge, since the blade is parallel to the screen ?
 

CappuccinoJak

[12] Conqueror
i can't remember which prep it was (i'm somewhat sure it's prep III), but you can hold the B and give it a delay and GI. does the GI hit anything or just mids?
 

Gamegenie222

[10] Knight
You know this thing called Ring Out? Raph can do it. He's not NM or Asta but he can actually RO! And that's just to start!
Thanks man but I need more info homie I got a local tourney with some out of state comp coming in 3 months from now for SCV and SCII so sharing your well of knowledge would be delightful like frame data and such.
 

WuHT

Premium Moderator
While I do believe they shortened his reach, in both versions of quick parade, the blades look equally long to me.
Are you serious? Maybe its just me, but the first pictures of SC5 Raph's prep and SC2 Raph's prepIV/A+K animation makes the sword seem a lot longer in SC2. However, I did both quick parade and the sword only seems barely longer (more above raph's head) in SC2.

I think ring has an awesome thread about SC2 frame data with most of the characters (saved hard work from tharon mortis back at calibur forums). Gotta dig that up.