Raphael General Discussion/Q&A Thread

CappuccinoJak

[12] Conqueror
so i've been trying out some air combos and i was wondering what's a better move in the air, 4A+B or A+B A? A+B A does more damage, but i'm pretty sure it's air-controllable.

i'm really liking raph in 2, think i might just backseat talim to make him my main lol.
 

Fendante

[10] Knight
I thought the 214 stance fit his style with 214B/prepI B and prepII B specifically looking like a very typical raphael move.

I miss that retreat step too.

his 33B looks more like a high attack compared to SC5's 22B.

It was a mid as Bojack said but if you look closely the animation was very weird and different than SC4, 5 22B. The current animation is much better imo.

I swear his sword got shorter in the later series. Looking at SC5's version of moves like 11A and 44A, and you go holy smokes. I can't do a screen shot comparison, but if you compare the 2nd hit of SC5 BB and one of SC2's thrust attacks, you'll see its about 20% shorter in SC5.

Glad Im not the only one who suspected this. I want his SC2 sword length back!! Btw if you notice in some of the screen shots and the SC2 movelist (thanks for doing them btw), Raph's limbs were longer back then too. That's why moves such as K and 8K have even less range in SC5.

Yup, 66A+B, basically trash since day one and it's going the distance in his moveset Rocky style..

Hey 66A+B is still one of his core moves that isn't significantly negative on block, good on wakeup, techs left, and eat away at guard.
 
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Slade

[14] Master
Hey 66A+B is still one of his core moves that isn't significantly negative on block, good on wakeup, techs left, and eat away at guard.
No guard damage in SC2, so there's not much use for big, slow verticals in SC2 unless it gives big damage on hit. Not to mention 66A+B was worse on guard in 2 than in 5 (-9~11) and is in the same ballpark as 236B and 236A+B (-8~11 and -9~10 respectively), both of which gain guard crush during soul charge.
 

Fendante

[10] Knight
No guard damage in SC2, so there's not much use for big, slow verticals in SC2 unless it gives big damage on hit. Not to mention 66A+B was worse on guard in 2 than in 5 (-9~11) and is in the same ballpark as 236B and 236A+B (-8~11 and -9~10 respectively), both of which gain guard crush during soul charge.

I understand. I was focusing SC5 66A+B. Yeah I loved the soul charge 236 moves back then (even 236AB had guard crush). Btw do you know the frames on 1K in SC2?
 

Slade

[14] Master
I understand. I was focusing SC5 66A+B. Yeah I loved the soul charge 236 moves back then (even 236AB had guard crush). Btw do you know the frames on 1K in SC2?
i22, -18 on block and +4 on hit.

2K is i15, -11 on block and +5 on hit also. Lol.
 

Real_Bojack

[10] Knight
It was a mid as Bojack said but if you look closely the animation was very weird and different than SC4, 5 22B. The current animation is much better imo.
.

I was reminded tonight that 33B and 99B have different animations. One Raph swings the sword in front of him, the other, behind him.

Also, the A in 22_88A comes out differently if you do 22 or 88, the 2nd might also but since the first A tends to jail them there's no real reason to worry about it.

OMG for the first time in a decade Bojack has BRAND NEW Raph tech! Brand new, and I'm not even gonna use any five dollar words to talk about it either.

Prep IV B causes Raph's sword to glow yellow or green (I'm color blind, no I don't see in grayscale thanks for asking) and he will slowishly pull the sword back to neutral after the stab. Here's the interesting part, if, at ANY time the sword is still glowing, pressing 2 or 8 will cause Raph to go into Prep spin back to Prep II. Even if you press the button for a single frame and don't wanna go back into Prep AT ALL. The interesting part is that you can delay the spin for quite a few frames. So I guess Prep IV B2_8 is officially a newly discovered move.
Not Earth shattering but brand new. Ten years later and I'm still learning SC2 Raph quirks.

P.s. disclaimer, it is entirely possible some one else noticed this too years back, or hell, even yesterday.
 

crow_winters

[11] Champion
Might as well go ahead and address this now so that we are prepared right out of the gates- the majority of your movelist is steppable to the enemy's left in this game/raph's right. This includes your godlike 2K AND your grabs. It's hard for me to lab much harder right now until HD comes out, but here's some stuff I was able to.. well, relearn, I guess, by myself.

After +2 HS from a single B, your ways to beat step G are-
1K
11A
wait THEN grab
and there's various things that you can do that "cover" that side but don't actually punish since step-G like 2A/etc. (although, if you remember Tharon's glorious posts on force block mixups, that in itself isn't a bad thing since we have 22AB/22A Prep mixup)

Both 11A and 1K are ass on block but they do real good things for him on hit and if anyone can test to find out how much frame advantage you need to make 2K unsteppable to the right it'll paint a better picture.
 

Black_Dog

[09] Warrior
his 33B looks more like a high attack compared to SC5's 22B
It's supposed to be a mid, but it gets easily TCed by some moves. It happened with Taki and Mitsu. I guess it was intended to be a high but turned into a mid during the creation.
 

Real_Bojack

[10] Knight
I just wanna add here that 33B is force crouch on block since no one seems to be talking about it very much. Seems like a good way to set people up for shenanigans and parlor tricks.

Also, 214B push back on block is ridiculous. I may end up using it to punish whiffs instead of 236 B (we should call 236 B thrust now because he yells it when he does it) now or something.
 

Real_Bojack

[10] Knight
Ok so for some reason some one closed my Raph counter thread. So I figure before it fades into forced obscurity I'll at least repost the explanation of his crouch dash counter,

--=CROUCH DASH COUNTER=--

How does his 236 counter WORK? Easy as pie is how it works!

Most people think it just comes out against H attacks. Well, it WILL do that but why? An astute Raph will also notice that at times it comes out when no H's have been used. So WTF Namco?!?!!

Ok, when Raph is in the middle of his crouch dash, he gets a smattering of "ghost hit boxes" and for some reason when Raph is able to rub these hit boxes against an opponent in "cool down" (BOJACK HATES THIS TERMS WE HATES THIS HOBBITSSSESSSS BUT IT SERVES US NOW IT SERVES US) after whiffing basically any attack, the counter will come out. Naturally since he is in crouch dash it will trigger vs. H's since well, he's in TC and the H whiffs. The whiff frames from the opp are the important part here.

The counter looks just like SCV FC3B for those of you keeping score at home but isn't quite as fast and doesn't knock down if I recall.

There's a chance I'm wrong and it's some other mechanic but from my testing ten years ago this was what I remember about this. I had to test it a bunch to figure out how to keep it FROM coming out because it's fairly ass, although it does have a good deal of knock back on CH and it may even track decently, perhaps on ring edge it may have better use.

Also, this means Raph is the only character in the game to my knowledge who can beat some one using stick alone.................. neat!
 

Mage

I'll make you submit!
Ok so for some reason some one closed my Raph counter thread. So I figure before it fades into forced obscurity I'll at least repost the explanation of his crouch dash counter,


Snip.
I closed the thread because I thought it would be best for it to be simply a read-only thread and if people wanted to then they could inquire or comment in this thread instead. There is way too many threads when it could all be condensed into one Raphael Strategy Thread or something of the sort.

You don't need to repost that "Crouch Dash Counter" paragraph if it already exists.

If you would like me to create such a thread and merge all of the existing "strategy" or "tips" threads then I will be happy to do so. Otherwise when a moderator is named for this forum it will be cluttered with so many threads for them to sort. Let's keep it clean and presentable.
 

Ninjaguy446

[14] Master
I have a question. What are Raph's best moves in this game? I'm guessing 6BB SCC, 3B, A+K/B+K, 11B, 11A, 1A, 11K and 44A?

Ack, I messed some of the notations up. I meant 1K instead of 11K and 22B instead of 11BB.
 
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