Raphael General Discussion / Q&A

44K has way less range than i'm comfortable with. TJ's about the same as 6K, but I doubt you're jumping lows on reaction. It doesn't have that lucky clipping thing where it can hit someone 8WRing as often as the SC4 version so i've kinda put that move in the forget pile.

88~4(B) is a pretty good answer that beats everything except if the seig waits and does a delayed SCH B.
 
As I thought, both of those TJ kicks don't TJ as early anymore. Nah I don't and cannot jump lows on reaction...too risky to take a guess too. I can only TJ lows if the low is slow enough or is part of a string with which I am familiar.
Lol I miss that clipping effect (44K was also 11_77K too so that might be why). I used to think 44K tracked but it doesn't. I like Delloso's idea of using it to get away from a wall though.

Reptile said:
Why is Raph so good?
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Cuz he's Raphael Sorel!!
 
WuHT said:
3 moves i need to consider more, is A+BA, 6B+K and 44K outside of known combos. I pretty much never have a slot for these moves outside of A+BA combo enders.
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I've seen situations for A+BA. They're mistakes. If the tiny backstep and extremely late crouch can actually matter, the spacing is so bad in the first place it's not really the move itself that did anything good. (I could have 22B, or done 3(B) to Prep something, or tried iFC B, or poked with 33B.) Flipside, it's not like you can lure anyone into getting beat up by A+BA.
And A+BA certainly doesn't pressure anyone on its own. It is heavily punished.

44K comes in when I lure people to get close to me when they think I didn't think they would follow my backdash. Then I 44K which comes out fast and they're doing something to beat "panic G" or to maneuver hesitation frames, which don't arrive, to their advantage.
The TJ just becomes insurance against dash up 2K, I suppose. But I do not ever recall jumping anything with 44K.

However, I don't know what it is I do that sets people up to get hit with this. I don't know how to psy-ops my opponent into thinking in the situation like the above; I just hope I am seeing what I think I'm seeing.

My entire arsenal, really, is just constantly picking out what move must be the last thing on the opponent's mind, and timing it like an interrupt. Then you just have to pepper good combo starters in there often enough to be the main damage worth worrying about so that none of your attempts at deeper advantage can be scoped out profitably.

Is that how mixups work? Did I just define mixups?
 
Sometimes I accidentally pull out a A+B (like when it whiffs as a combo finisher) and try to fool the opponent into thinking the full A+BA is coming out. You can get good advantage with this when they try to block it. Of course, I was probably facing crappy opponents when it worked, and any TJ moves would render this useless, but it's possible nonetheless.
 
Leonyx said:
Sometimes I accidentally pull out a A+B (like when it whiffs as a combo finisher) and try to fool the opponent into thinking the full A+BA is coming out. You can get good advantage with this when they try to block it. Of course, I was probably facing crappy opponents when it worked, and any TJ moves would render this useless, but it's possible nonetheless.
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I tried using A+BA baits and feints to try and make something of it but it's just not in the cards. Players bad enough to fall for it never behave predictably enough to make it work right. Players good enough to NOT fall for it will likely screw you for doing it, at least after you've pulled the stunt once or twice.
 
Fendante said:
Good points. What's the difference between 22Bing Sieg's 3(B) and QS and 4Bing it? I know 22B beats everything except SCH A but does 4B beat all options?
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Yes it beats SCH B, K and A. I also like the reward much better.
Dont forget that he still has other options besides SCH A, B and K though, like canceling his stance or switching into SBH.
 
So um using 2 or 8 B+K after stepping a vertical seems kinda legit. i did it once by accident and it might be gd for when you dont have meter for 33kBE. neone else mess w this?
 
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It feels more reliable after some time, despite me not feeling like I do anything different. When I started using needles, they felt clumsy as FUCK.

Not something I spam to this day. They do teach you a much higher level of positioning though. The angles that the two players stand at is fundamental to their use. After some time, they teach you to be more aware of these angles than before.
 
it looks like raph really gets paid for stepping verticals in this game combine that with his dominance of the 2d axis things are looking up for him
 
youngfox said:
it looks like raph really gets paid for stepping verticals in this game combine that with his dominance of the 2d axis things are looking up for him
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I know, I got this whole other thread devoted to 33KB BE and like 90% of it comes from stepped verts and trashing the opp for letting me step something.
 
seriously he can get paid very well for taking guesses between sidestep and backdash. now im mad he is considered the worst in the game cuz people are retarded
 
it weird that those who actually know their characters have vastly different opinions from the rest. like how hates was saying cery is mid high and how i find raph to be mid tier

EDIT: then again apparently his placement is based on the work of anticsrus who i never seen play this game
 
I dont know how much of that is downtalking your own char syndrome though (which happens A LOT).
I think, as you imply, one needs to main a character to understand him completely, however that also means that no one is really in the position to evaluate how much better or worse the rest of the cast is.
 
I was more or less just ribbing my old buddy bojack. He could certainly be mid tier for all I know. I've faced a few competent Raphs but no great ones.
 
ChaosK said:
I dont know how much of that is downtalking your own char syndrome though (which happens A LOT).
I think, as you imply, one needs to main a character to understand him completely, however that also means that no one is really in the position to evaluate how much better or worse the rest of the cast is.
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thats why in every other game but this it is done solely on matchups. if top players of each character can agree on a MU split than its way easier to tier w/o drama or personal opinion fucking things up. for example most sieg players will admit raph is probably at advantage in that MU and most raph players will agree. same how most raph players probably think the pyraah MU is not in a favor and most pyraahs will agree
 
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