Raphael General Discussion

I play Amy and Raph pretty similarly - aggressively. Except one is safe, does good damage, has good oki, and has good RO.

The other one is Raph
 
piggy said:
I play Amy and Raph pretty similarly - aggressively. Except one is safe, does good damage, has good oki, and has good RO.

The other one is Raph
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hey raph ...has better SG... range..and er ..er ... thats about it
 
6BB, 66A+B and 33B have pretty good range too, and 3BA and 22B have good SG damage, without the need to enter an advancing, non-cancellable, linear stance.

Don't get me wrong, I love me some Raph...and I'll keep using him, but seriously, let's not get carried away
 
Okay an EMPTY PREP IS how many frames? 21? 23? now my offline session, I've been using alot of empty prep/throws, and they're starting to duck them, so now I try empty prep, 3B...but that can be stepped easy too o_o......

Anyway, how are we using empty preps? You guys get hit out of it usually or is it effective?

Also, you have 20+ frames each time you prep to do something...if you hold your actions and they do a high, you auto-SEA....we already know this, but what about utilizing delayed moves in prep? Instead of activating something like Prep A or Prep SEA ASAP, are we waiting 10/13 frames and THEN doing a prep move? Has anyone found ANY use for this? Set ups? Anything?

Ruiner
 
well since prep advances..following with a grab might be able to beat steppers (or just 2A).

It's just ANOTHER option the opponant must worry about.
 
I posted this here because you closed the other thread without allowing for any real discussion.

11b,3b,ab,236b,22b/22(b), b,

all do a good job of beating yoda
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I don't really think that's enough to beat a skilled Yoda. In this matchup, Yoda has all of his shit, while Raph is stripped of almost all of his already-not-so-good stuff. 11b,3b,ab,236b,22b/22(b), b are all mids/highs, which offer no mixup of any sort. What mixups do you use against Yoda, 2K/2B? Online, Raph stands a chance, but offline, against a skilled Yoda, is another story completely. Unless you actually tested this matchup out, which I doubt for various reasons.
 
WTF are you talking about the only high is AB which is also a low, i didnt mention lows because 33B which soul crushes in 9 is pretty much obvious

if he rolls just 2B, FC3B him out of it

22B spaces

3B spaces hes not gonna get around those...............

hes not gonna step 11B

66B is safe vs yoda at tip

B knocks him out of the air

obviously im not gonna make a flow chart of how to approach an entire match

lets not forget 3B,22B,11B all do SG dmg its CF city

yoda cant step 1BB either double low you know what that means..............

oh btw raph has good stuff its just all verts........

which doesnt matter when your opponent steps Über slow

this is why i closed the match up thread IT WAS NOTHING BUT OPINIONS
 
this is why i closed the match up thread IT WAS NOTHING BUT OPINIONS
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That's all that matchup threads are, since there is no scientific way to PROVE any of these matchups. The discussion is there to explain other opinions and, well, discuss (for instance, the fact that almost all of those matchups were very optimistic).

I played around a lot more with Empty Prep setups last night - if you lock them down with a lot of Prep BB and they fear getting hit with Prep A, you can throw them a lot, and Prep0 2A can help if they step your prep. Sometimes Prep0 G will save you from stepping launchers, but not always.
 
piggy said:
That's all that matchup threads are, since there is no scientific way to PROVE any of these matchups. The discussion is there to explain other opinions and, well, discuss (for instance, the fact that almost all of those matchups were very optimistic).

I played around a lot more with Empty Prep setups last night - if you lock them down with a lot of Prep BB and they fear getting hit with Prep A, you can throw them a lot, and Prep0 2A can help if they step your prep. Sometimes Prep0 G will save you from stepping launchers, but not always.
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agreed. After some discussion/debate...THEN you can draw any form of conclusion. The point of the thread is not to draw a conclusion first, then closing it when people disagree.

And ok ... so Prep0 is the "empty prep" then ... ? Notation wise ? Prep5 ..would be too confusing i suppose :)
 
WuHT said:
agreed. After some discussion/debate...THEN you can draw any form of conclusion. The point of the thread is not to draw a conclusion first, then closing it when people disagree.

And ok ... so Prep0 is the "empty prep" then ... ? Notation wise ? Prep5 ..would be too confusing i suppose :)
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Something like 3~Prep BB would be a normal notation, so I think something like 3~Prep* would be community acceptable for an 'empty prep', as an asterisk signifies 'neutral'.
 
HolyForce, remember awhile ago, when you talked about how easy prep is to get around? left step or duck after any blocked prep entry move?

Remember when everyone ignored you like you didn't know what you were talking about, or you were exaggerating how bad prep was

....remember that?

YOU WERE RIGHT. YOU ARE RIGHT, WE DIDN'T LISTEN.

Just thought I'd say o_o.....Raphael blows.
 
I don't think anyone had any illusions about prep. It's what he does and you either learn to apply it or go play someone else. Algol is a good pick.
 
Prep is a good tool - you just have to be careful and use it smart.

Raph doesn't have any fantastic, easy go to options. If you can't out-play your opp you need to either learn to play, or pick a better character.

And I picked Prep0 as "Prep Naught" just based on the old PrepA, B, C, D etc from SC2 - use whatever makes sense :-p
 
How do you guys use it then? Because you can't hit check whether you go into prep or not, you know? Off CH it's okay...but even then I usually just take the guaranteed damage of 3B prep BB and either end prep, Prep A, or VE and hope they don't interrupt.
 
i use prep A to make people fear interrupting my stance shifts

prep is a gamble with the risk reward in your opponents favor

but SEA,SEB,VE all have said risk reward slightly in raphs favor
 
prep is a gamble with the risk reward in your opponents favor
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Disagree - Prep puts risk reward in Raph's favor because it puts Raph in Control. Opponent is forced to commit to step because otherwise you lock them down completely, then is when empty prep, or not entering prep will begin to make a difference. If they sit there and try to trade with you you will get them .

Prep would be dominant if he had some low option out of it (prep K doesn't count), but it can still be used to lock-down and dictate how the opp must play.
 
Every prep transition move WITHOUT ENTRANCE INTO PREP is very bad on block(-14 for 3B, worse for 6BB, and let's not even discuss why the fuck you wouldn't go into prep on 4B....)44AB isn't too bad...and forces FC....but that move is hard to get off that often so I really can't consider that.

Can still be used to lock down and dictate how the opponent must play piggy? Lol.....every single time you commit to a prep and the prep entrance was blocked, you can either get left stepped for HUGE PUNISHMENT(except for the few anti-step prep options which are TOO FUCKING SLOW but hey, they can work...)....or....and this one to me is actually worse because it COMPLETELY shuts prep down IMO...they just sit there and duck.....

If you Prep A them out of the duck...it's only a NH. Prep A on NH does 10 damage, and leaves you at -6.

Prep SEA/VE is 2A'd on reaction(this is FC 2A mind you, even FASTER then 2A) Prep BB goes right over their head, Prep K:K is guarded(and unsafe) Prep A+B can easily be seen and guarded on reaction...Prep is FUCKED.

This isn't some great, advanced, C.I.A code: Ninja shit piggy.....this is something that any opponent with even limited reaction ability can adapt too and learn. The only reason you don't see everyone destroying prep(which you will eventually) is because it's Raphael: we're rare. If Kilik or Mitsu had prep, you'd bet your ass it'd be shut down faster then a crackdealer in a Police Station.

The only thing you can do with prep is off CH's, you can either do Prep BB for guranteed damage, or do another prep option(SEA/VE) instead for a possible mixup. after they block/react to the mixup however, if you did a prep extension via Prep BB or SEA B, be prepared for the same exact situation: Duck or be left stepped.

I'm going to try the shit where I just rarely go into prep..see how that works out........I'm still evolving as a Raphael player so I'm not losing all hope yet.....

DOES ANYONE HAVE VIDEO'S of Raphael's that do constant prep entry moves without prep? Does it work out well? I don't know of any in the video thread so I'm asking here...o_o...
 
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