Raphael Video Discussion

I wrote a lil blurb about how 22A, 4A, 22K and 33A were comparable in that they would all have been unusably bad on any other character.

These moves have some combination of being mediocre in speed, duckable, low damage on NH, possibly (-) on hit, guaranteeing nothing on CH, and being somewhat unsafe.
 
I dont mean all of those moves have all those properties. But each of them has 3 or 4 "bad" properties though which is kinda silly
 
Glad you guys are diving on this subject.

Do you agree 33A is the worst on this list?

The thing is: it's good qualities: (a) Horizontal, (b) Mid and (c) TC are hardly ever applied all at once.

If you really want a TC, you don't go for this move. Even in 8wayrun (especially 3, 6 or 9) you can skip your finger to 4 and perform 4B, or maybe 1K.

So, the TC is really only a bonus, a 'just in case'. The main reason to use this attack is that it is almost impossible to dodge (horizontal mid).

If it at least had a good range it would be a good move to throw when both fighters are moving sideways, on what I call aikido mode. The TC would help against high faster horizontals. And if the guy would try to tech you, he'd probably be screwed, cause 33A is 'undodgeable'. But to be really good at this you'd have to be able to throw it even before your opponent (cause if you were doing some true wait and punish you'd go for a more damaging option). In the way it is, you hardly do it before your opponent, cause teh attack has a lame range and if you do before the guys is likely to block and you're screwed at -16.

So, well, yeah... I think this is Raph's worst move. A decent version of this move is Pyrrha's 66A, an 8WR TC horizontal mid.

The reason it exists is because it is the only horizontal TC in 8wr, and the fastest TC in 8wr.

I think it is no longer a WS move, because they wanted to give Raph his new WS A, a fairly fast, safe and long range horizontal since his 4A and 6A (your main horizontal options from FC) aren't exactly that, one is kinda slow and unsafe and the other is short. So, Violent Blood had to go somewhere else and they figured it would have it's especifities in 8wr, but it ended up underpowered, imo.
 
I'm not even sure 33A has any TC frames at all. At super close range, it is possible for raph to 4A and evade another raph's 33A, but that is rare but I'm just throwing that out there for you to mull over.

Being 16 damage, -16 on block and only +2 on hit seems to be pretty weak for a mid ranged horizontal mid. Two weaknesses minimum seems to be a project soul mandate for raph's horizontals. At least 33A knocks them away some distance on hit, so it does double duty as move to create space.
 
Sorry for saying 33A is TC. I still have the impression that it is. I took a look at the guide, now, and it says it isn't. I'll teste later, when I fix my console or buy a new one (broke yesterday).

For a safe horizontal mid we still have 44A(B), but it's slow as hell. You gotta be on the offense, to use it. Preety much on oki.
 
The -12 on guard for 22A and 66A isn't the end of the world if you use them at tip range. Raph can still punish you with his fast long range i12, but I think most of the cast can't. They tend to go for something slower and you can usually 44B them.

33KB (the meterless) isn't much of an after step punisher, but it's good if you want a fast strike just in case your opponent steps along and try to attack you at the same time you attack him. It's also good as a replacement for close range 22B against characters who have some super TC from 8WR, like Ivy has 22K (which ducks Raph's 22B).
 
At close range, 8wring left against a raph's 33KB seems really hard to do (you can QS or 8wr the other direction easily) so that is food for thought.

22B's combination of safety, reach and damage potential will be missed though.
I can forgo the damage from 65ish to 45ish (if raph had buffs to other weak areas), but its damn annoying if you have to choose between 11BB, A+BA, 66A+B and 1B each time.
 
It would be pretty cool if 33A did Tech crouch. A neat complement to JMP A being a TJ. But at the same time I don't think it's right for the design. I just wish there was a little extra in frames. It is mainly a wussy 22A, tho, and being a bad move makes it more obvious to look for ways to set up those verts.

And I would not call 8A+B low risk. As an initial high, it's fundamentally one of the weaker and riskier moves in the system. Curiously enough, the whole "people can attack between the high and the mid" observation really comes to the fore if you just use it. It's not an absent observation - it really happens, and not on anticipation but dumb luck; or, if we hate to say "luck," then , because it's actually hard to make that not happen. TCs are cheap stock for every other character and it's still hard for (me) to remember.

Once you say "It won't be used often; it won't be a component the opponent can say 'Ah! I will adapt to that'," then that's pretty much conceded the point.
The only thing left to say is that conservativeness can only go so far. Belial told me 'every time you use a move you take a risk'. If your opponent is going to gank himself, then being conservative can win games. But if the timer is a threat to your life gauge because there is a guy on screen making you eat hard mixups actively, then everything you do which is not a strong chance at winning that game, can be compared to making you lose that game.

That said, as a minor point, the nerf to backdashing may help 8A+B, which I felt suffered from the use of backdashing.
 
Heh, all this talk about 33A, and it's probably the horizontal I use the most. So tired of people stepping and then ducking under 22A; now that's a move I consider garbage.

22K is the winner for me, though. It's funny how this move is actually pretty terrible especially with the lack of Prep BBB stun after it, but I'll take the BE and say at least it's not sucky like 22B lol.
-DC:sc5nm1:
 
I tend to play people who do a QS into a TC mid, and 33A puts a quick stop to that. 2A doesn't have the range I would like against people like Xiba and NM, and 22A, as stated, is high. If 33A did something on CH it would be a great move, but unfortunately I just have to deal with getting the effect of discouraging step TCs.
-DC:sc5nm1:
 
I literally dreamed of us asking for a buff and PS giving it. lol

Well, I tested (again, I think) 33A and it is indeed TC. It may not seem like it cause the TC is a little late. And it might be a little late because of the quick step. Even being TC, I think it is the weakest of Raph's moves.

And here are a few more fights between me and my friend Zorrito:



 
Yup. That's anti-Raph game 101.

I don't trust wrA much as, a step killer, cause it only tracks one side. A also tracks just one side. 4K is probably the most basic step killer Raph has. It tracks both sides and can be used either standing or from FC.
 
I think I'm on my way to "prevent" anti-Raph game. I feel I need a good session vs a very good Mitsu player, when I'm warmed up and having a good day. Just wanna Prep K the crap out of them until they start eating my SEs. Mitsu (and Pyrrha, I think) seem to be the toughest match ups for me, so far.

And here are some new videos. Prep 4 stuff. Second fight ain't great, but has a very special GI :) You may wanna skip the other rounds (of the 2nd video).


 
This might be a dumb question, but is there a way to save footage on the game, as a replay and the replay on 8wayrun? Cause I have some good matches, but dont have a program to get them on here.

Sorry, I just check the 1st post. Mybad. Well now Ima show off my Raphael.
 
New raphael community youtube channel. My original understanding of this undertaking is that it was going to be public raph access where we collectively upload videos. We're going to need more contributions guys (unless you wish to use your own private account i have no problem with that either). PM me if you want the password even though I think you guys may be able to guess it.

Online match v. Viola
Egg. Dropped 66(B)~combo costed one round. You will notice my anti-viola is very weak.

Online match v. Pyrrha
Random 236B to steal a round from moneymuffins. Holy smokes I was just tossing out moves on whiff deliberately like crazy, guess I was a bit intimidated by his rush down.
 
so uh, would anyone mind if I posted videos of my super-scrubby Raph for critique? I've only just started to watch my replays and while I can pick out general mistakes (my fundamentals are pretty poor, I fall back on like the same 5 moves all the time, I don't adjust to what my opponent is doing...) I don't really know how to go about correcting those mistakes.

the videos posted so far are just so good, I'm kind of self-conscious about posting my aggressively mediocre ones. ^^;
 
well you won't know until you tried. Just link the youtube in your posts and specifically ask for "critique" in the posts.
 
janejana said:
so uh, would anyone mind if I posted videos of my super-scrubby Raph for critique? I've only just started to watch my replays and while I can pick out general mistakes (my fundamentals are pretty poor, I fall back on like the same 5 moves all the time, I don't adjust to what my opponent is doing...) I don't really know how to go about correcting those mistakes.

the videos posted so far are just so good, I'm kind of self-conscious about posting my aggressively mediocre ones. ^^;
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Off topic I love your sig janejana. :P
 
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