Raphael Wishlist 2.0

A move isn't going to increase in speed by 5 frames, because that would fundamentally change it (it may as well change animation in that case). Safety and unsafety maybe (look at what happened to SE A, a 7 frame change) but the impact frame of the move can't be adjusted without it "hitting" before the animation matches. PrepK being i15 would be the same speed as yoshi's 6K for comparison, so I don't know if you're proposing changing prepK to Raph's current 3K but where he actually realigns or something.


3(B) is now +2 on block , so did Raph get a secret 1 frame buff ? (immediate Prep BB trades with natsu's i10 AA, and prep AB trades with i13 stuff).

All this stuff darkfender is talking about "prep on hit" being unreliable fails to consider this: 3(B) guarnatees at a minimum prepBB in most situations (20 more damage) or even prepAB (30 more damage) and potential further prep pressure.

prepB(B), 6B(B), prepA(B), 44A(B) on hit, pretty much has prepBB BE uninterruptable for 67 damage if the opponent tries anything but TC moves that TC at frames 1-2, or manually crouching and waiting,. Now prepBB is only a NC against those that try to quick-step so maybe that is lacking, and prepAB has range issues which is outside of raph's comfort zone. So no, I don't think prep on hit is an issue outside of hitbox/glitch issues rather than balance issues.


tell me how many damage can come out from a prep BB whiff?
I think your experience is quite different from mine....

We had a similar discussion regarding 4B and other stun chains in 1.01

Raph NEEDS prep to be 100% effective on hit and not to enter another 50% mixup....

The mixup has to be blocking or not blocking.....considering he hasn t safe otion to exit prep.


Manually crouching is what damages raph and that leads to 100+ damage for whiffing a single prepB
The brave edge is a complete joke being easily JG or GI 100% on reaction obviously.


I am not asking the moon i am asking an efficient prep at least to scIV level.....and considering prep was bad at that time figure it how its now....
The difference between me and you is that i think current raph isthe product of an unfinished work and not of a new character design.


After 1.02 its quite clear they wanted old raph to have new tools but keep his game unchanged they just hadn t the time.
We need a reward that isn t a BAD mixup .-. we are not supposed to compoletely outplay any opponent in order to win a match.

P.S: for adapting animations there are MANY ways to do that.....and all of them doesn t require much work but can be done with current patching system.....btw its their work not ours.
 
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Raph NEEDS prep to be 100% effective on hit and not to enter another 50% mixup....
From most prep re-entries, ie prepB(B), prep K is pretty much impossible to interrupt.

I don't know if stances should have low-risk catch all options. I'm thinking comparing to nightmare's stance options, and each single option has a counter (crouching, punishing or side stepping). However, his rewards are enough to justify a little gambling, whereas Raph is dealing with 20 or 30 damage pokes that are just as easy to avoid compared to nightmare's options.

If you are complaining about prep on hit being a bad reverse mixup (because it is currently), then having prep K do better NH damage against crouchers would be an my suggestion for a fix, since crouching and reacting will beat prepBB, prepAB, prepA+B and SE entries. Something as basic as 30damage and a spin stun that actually gives frame advantage (like 22A on CH) or knockdown, but imo the move should remain "unsafe". Not sure if relying on prep4 would be smart, because the meter-less options on drawing a whiff is completely not worth the risk.

The mixup has to be blocking or not blocking.....considering he hasn t safe otion to exit prep.
Yeah this part is a pain, but again entering stance = take a risk for hopefully greater rewards. The whole point of entering stance is generally to apply pressure or mixup, but the risk-reward needs to be adjusted.
I understand that stances generally have 1 great move, a couple of higher risk, decent reward, then 1 not-so-good move that is still useful because it protects against a certain counter.
In prep's case, we have a bunch of low reward, med risk, and a couple of shitty moves plus a few defensive options.
SE on the other hand has quality moves.

Manually crouching is what damages raph and that leads to 100+ damage for whiffing a single prepB
Not all characters can do that. Obviously I don't think easy to do WR combos should do 100+ on NH without meter.
The brave edge is a complete joke being easily JG or GI 100% on reaction obviously.
I don't know if you should be using the BE on NH as a way to train your opponent not to immediately use a FC or WR combo to punish prep re-entry on hit.


The difference between me and you is that i think current raph isthe product of an unfinished work and not of a new character design.
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Yes that is where you and I disagree. I think a complete overhaul will be too much (and frankly unlikely) whereas just a few hard buffs on certain properties is about as realistic as project soul will give in the near term.
Here's what i'm not happy about though: The patch is trying to make Raph more like leixia, in that they give him nerfs but give him the same leixia playstyle buff: "Try to make CE combo after everything" I don't like that approach from Raph at all.
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Here is a big problem for buffing prepBB and prepAB's damage:
The move doesnt' scale down in damage in 3(B)'s combo, so it may end up too powerful for a i16 punish. Obviously changing 3(B)'s damage or adding scaling would be a quick fix, but I just want to lay that out there.
 
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Most characters' 3B launchers are i17+. The punish specialists obviously are in a different class (having 60+ dmg with JF at i14/i15).

I'm going to repeat I do not like having the current approach where they make new stuns where they think its a buff because it creates a stun where CE can connect.
 
regard your vision of prep mixup...

Prep on block = HEAVY punishment
Prep on HIT = Heavy risk and probably low reward, blocking is often unsafe also is vulnerable to step and duck at least 66,6% for opponent

In a game where most character can 50% you for half bar risking nothing does it seems fair to you?

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Most characters' 3B launchers are i17+. The punish specialists obviously are in a different class (having 60+ dmg with JF at i14/i15).

That is when even i25 TC moves can be a threat expecially with lack of a decent safe mid (i currently use 3A like a mad but its not that good, on NH is really bad instead).


I'm going to repeat I do not like having the current approach where they make new stuns where they think its a buff because it creates a stun where CE can connect.
cnnot agree as said you can easily see that stun chains are put to reproduce scIV stun chains but with meter requirements....

Prepatch 4B for example wasn t even a move and being one of raph staple moves its a clear proof.

Also leixia has:
-huge tracking
-traps and huge damage on grounded opponents
-an improved guard damage
-his game is based on mids not highs (most of her scIV highs now are mids O_o)
-its a noobkiller having deadly mixup on blocks that require diffcult reactions or JG to be shut down otherwise she has unsteppable advantage (even at high level play this makes difference because at advantage she can use those tools).

I can see why they nerfed her....probably they did it wrong but considering that differently from raph she has plenty safe attack options without risking to be ducked/stepped and heavily punished i think there is not even a comparison.
 
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regard your vision of prep mixup...
Prep on block = HEAVY punishment
Lets not exaggerate. Prep is an inferior stance to SE, but the issue is, should it be slightly worse or significantly worse ?

Your opponent generally will have to take risks in order to deal damage, and prep4 (70 damage with BE) and SE (85ish) do exist so its not entirely a freebie for your opponent.
However: More often than not they'll use their TC mid move that is
1. TC under prepBB BE
2. Just slow enough so prep4 has to be delayed or else the aGI window will end and you eat damage
3. Just fast enough so prep K BE is too slow and will get CH'd.
4. Just long enough range so prep A+B won't evade it.

That is the "hole" in prep, and unfortunately a lot of characters have their high damaging combos that start with moves that fit in that property (random TC, i18ish, decent range)
Prep on HIT = Heavy risk and probably low reward, blocking is often unsafe also is vulnerable to step and duck at least 66,6% for opponent
I don't know about that.
It feels like project soul wants non-prep entries to be punishable only by guessing an immediate response, which is fair as long as Raph gains some benefit from them not immediately reacting.
Looking at the frames, a lot of non-prep entries is the magic -14 on block, which means sometimes a random pyrrha 236B (that would lose against prepBB BE, prep4, or SE) would hit you even though you are "playing safe".

I believe that is project soul's intention, so imo the only benefits to actually not entering prep stance would be to increase the push-out on block (noticeable nerf on 3B from SC4).

Personally, I would like to see moves like 3(B), prepB(B), 6B(B), 4(B), all have reduced freeze time on Raph and the same reduced freeze time on the opponent on block. Having your opponent have different timing to input his moves between guesisng 3B and 3(B) could be annoyingly good and pressure them to input the wrong decision. I think this was noticeable in SC4 with 3B and SEA B vs 3(B) and SEA (B), in that the timing to step after the move was slightly different. Additionally, it mitigates one of raph's biggest problems because he is SO easy to punish when he whiffs.

I'm not even talking about the frequency of whiffing, but that Raph has such an exaggerated whiff animation (plus absolutely minimal chance of weapons hitting in the side, due to his narrow hitbox), that is super easy for the opponent to input their big launcher.
An example, is if you compare moves like algol's 2A, which, even if it whiffs, may be hard to punish because he recovers so much faster compared to other 2A.
When I think I sidestep mitsurugi's verticals, I have to take my time to enter my punish because I dont want to accidently run into his katana, so that I may actually miss my timing. Evading Raph has no such problem so it makes it easy for your opponent to always choose the biggest hardest punish.

In a game where most character can 50% you for half bar risking nothing does it seems fair to you?
I don't know anyone that doesn't think Raph could use a damage buff. How much, and which particular moves are the point of this discussion. I think we're beyond the point of QQing about low damage in general.

PrepAB imo is the weakest move in Prep intentionally, but I see no reason why prep K has to be so bad. PrepA+B is the required noob-beater, and it actually does pretty good damage on NH (though no one will ever use it as a mid/low mixup).
 
Lets not exaggerate.

i have a different experience regard prep answers....but repeating it won t make it more clear if i failed before to explain my point of view :(

for me prep is strongly disadvantaged in hit chances paired with strong disadvantage in risk reward

making the stance really bad.
Its almost useless against any player with STRONG antiraph knowledge and character is not even that important.

The point is i really met few players with strong antiraph knowledge....Its a pity that few scrubs can achieve same results with ignorance XD
Instead you can be more effective against players that shows too much respects to raph, that think how to not be hit rather than thinking in terms of pure math and how they can ignore risible damage from many mixup options.



But the point where i strongly disadgree is when you are overanalizing raph balance when the game is clearly based on STRONG unreactable mixups.
If it wasn t so atsroth that is the iconic 50% character, would be broken.....instead its mid tier.
Viola, Zwei, yoshi just to tell some all can use their 50% stuff to get their 60-120 dmg.

Most character can force you in 50% mixups whenever they take advantage.
Also many of them have tracking stuff that only JG can stop (making them strong against moving opponents).

Raph instead should get weak conditional mixups?
 
it seems that i was right ._.

google translate really struglles but from what i understood in the new interview the game was rushed and patch 1.02 was planned even before the release....

That would prove raph was clearly unfinished and still is.

Also SE is not an alternate stance...
SE is part of the prep...is a mixup you can enter as a reward for having cnnected a prep AND having taken risk to entre the stance...

Unfortunately reward is not there....

@fendante i would prefer prepK to track on hit and not on block...but being hitconfirmable
that is achievable automatically reducing prepK frames because step requires frames to start and 14-10 leaves only 4.

The point is BE has to be hitconfirmable........


A sad thing is that most character have strong unreactable mixups on block while raph is risky on hit.
 
Wait there is a difference between tracking on hit vs block?? Did I say something wrong??? Sure the BE hit confirmable part is very important. Prep KBE is basically one of our big rewards but we can only depend on luck for the whole move to hit. Otherwise, we lost meter and the second kick is ducked and Raph gets whooped. Even with the nice 0 on block, it's too risky and unreliable.

that is the point:

Your reward for entering prep on hit should be an unavoidable prepK with an hitconfirmable BE.
@-14

that because ANY player having a decent raph knowledge knows that is so convenient blocking a prep entered on hit (there is NO risk because SE is slow)....so they can react any mixup expecially if they have a decent fast move from crouch.

The amount of damage you suffer from a prepKBE blocked is so high you will stop to use the move as soon as you see opponent blocks leaving him free to step afterwards because risk reward is too against raph to risk a prepK,BE if they can reliably punish it.....

In this situation prep is not even a stance....unless your opponent is 90% predictable.

PrepK BE hitconfirmable @-14 (prep K not the BE) would balance the thing......but this is a MINIMUM requirement.

Considering as i said this game is balanced to rewarding aggressive mixups, often 50% -12/+X mixups ON BLOCK for most of the cast wherever raph has 25-30% with risk of WHIFF on HIT.

Its so wrong it doesn t even makes sense.....


Yet because we want a BAD character i can accept that i have to be punished if i entered prep on block so prepK from a bloced stance is fine as it is....unless they want raph to have a strong stance like other characters.

P.S. also if i understod correctly some techsteps can evade prepK on hit @_@ making it even more of a joke.
 
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1st order of business:
Risk vs Reward. I'm saying that while Raph's frames on block are "mediocre to average" he does have better than average pushout on block on a majority of his moves plus a few excellent tip range pushout. However, Raph suffers a lot from whiffing for 2 key reason :
A) Because of his lack of re-alignment, narrow hitbox combined with Raph's long animation recovery time means that he will be reliably punished. There won't be this "Oh the 2nd hit of the opponent might nick me so I better hesitate and wait until it's completely safe", because if you stepped raph, 9/10 times the opponent is clear to retaliate which maximizes their punishment against Raph.
B) he's very easy to cause to Whiff, so it'll occur more often then against other characters.

I'm comparing nightmare (not due to the tier difference, but I feel they have similar range and ability to deal increased damage if you enter stance). If you compare "risk" from nightmare vs raphael, obviously raphael has much safer frames on block. However, I can guarantee you that Raphael whiffs a lot more than nightmare because his moveset is just that much easier to evade. In fact, this can be noticeable to the point where Raph can be seen as just as risky as NM for example. Now considering "rewards" and its crystal clear who is better in this regard.

What is the point of this rant fendnate ? The point is that while Raph whiffing more than other characters is probably intended, so to compensate he should be more difficult to punish even if he whiffs.
This may be accomplished by reducing the recovery animation of Raph so that he enters prep faster in real time but must be compensated so that the opponent recovers from blocking Raph's 3(B) at the same change. This means that if you whiff 3(B) or prep B(B), having a reduced recovery animation means that there is a chance SE or prep4 might save your butt. So basically this is what I mean by having the recovery frame on prep entry moves reduced, but the same amount reduced on the opponent so the relative +/- frames on block are the same.

2nd order of business:
An entire thread could be devoted to prep K, which imo is Raph's most intriguing move that could have multiple angles of buffing. Assuming all stupid pushback problems are fixed (where the 2nd hit will whiff even if the opponent just stands there due to dumb pushback)

Decision 1: Prep K better tracking, or only PrepK BE has 100% tracking ? Prep K imo does track well at range, but it seems to not have any hitbox up close to Raph's side, sort of like 66A. I hope project soul doesn't think that there is a conflict with prepAB and decide to make Prep K suck up close for this sole reason.

Decision 2: Prep K being safer on block, but less pushback ? (-14 vs -16). I'd rather prep K be a higher risk, higher reward move, so I'm probably thinking keep the -16.

Decision 3: Prep K knockdown into something that actually combos outside of 2B/2K or CE? This one is tricky, because if Prep K knocksdown and guarantees full A+BA, then it is really good. I'm cool if only 2B and 2K connect, if prep K already does 25+ damage on its own.

Decision 4: Prep K more damage on NH, but keeps them standing ? Back to 28 damage, but +4 on hit ? I don't like the pushback on HIT, because pre-patch you can't even 2A or grab them unless you dash forward and Raph has a pretty piss-poor forward dash. I'm thinking knockdown even on NH is the right choice over standing and + frames, provided you get a net 35ish damage reward for landing prep K on NH. Main reason is because Raph already has a ton of moves that leave him at 0 or minor frames advantage on hit (yet pushback far enough so 2A and grabs are outta range) so why not diversify ?

Decision 5: Prep K faster ? At most from 21 frames to 20 frames imo. Else this could be achieved by having 3(B) be +4 on block instead of +2 on block (which means prep K should then beat bullrush) but this change will improve all prep moves obviously (and change the prep4 aGI window). Prep A(B) on block technically should be something like +5 on block, since the 2nd hit should have been duckable if you block the first, but imo prepAB's biggest problem is the 1st hit has shitty range as opposed to the 2nd hit being useless if the 1st is blocked.

Decision 6: Prep K BE hit confirmable ? If this is the case, then the first hit of prepK BE and prep K will have to be identical, unlike moves like maxi's LI A BE vs LI A or even our very own 33K BE vs 33K. If this happens, the move will be like mitsu's 3B BE where the BE is used to protect the "unsafety-ness" which is added utility.

Even 2 outta 6 changes here can make prep K the strongest move in prep, aside from entering SE (not a major accomplishment considering the competition lol)


Strictly discussion facilitating proposals:
Prep K has a built in tech-step ?
Prep K is chargable like maxi's RO A [K] ??
Prep K rings out or guarnatees only a 1A due to knockback distance?

One thing I want to mention: A buffed prep K will compete with prep 4 and SE as the techniques used to counter opponents who are trying to counter prepBB pressure basically. SE and prep 4 rely on evading , while prepK just hopes for the CH. Obviously SE is handsdown the strongest while Prep 4's biggest problem is that it basically sucks on whiff or meter-less responses (30 damage? thats 2 whole damage more than mitsu's AA!)
 
i agree on pont 1 but i really think that a comparison should be made with cervantes, mitsu, maxi, patroklos or yoshi...
Nightmare is opposite to raph in all aspects...

His stance is easy to punish but with really few damage...on the other hand a good guess can net nightmare long RO, or 100+damage.....

He also tracks a lot and has a long aGI, and a scary antistep that is AG:A to limit opponents mobility....
On the other hand his moblity is really weak out of stance excluding backstep.


2nd) i wouldn t say shadow evade is so effective at evading...on the opposite is reactable by half cast...
a sakura twister or a bullrush for example will make sure you don t use the move and that is where prepK should help but doesnt.

PrepK will never compete with SE
SE is about taking risk to enter an even more deadly stance....prep4 is almost only a noobkiller because of his 6 frame aGI window and weak backstep that is beated so easily.

PrepK, SE, prep4 should be complementary and part of a mixup in order to avoid opponent to have easy chances to beat the stance.

Current problem is any "intelligent" choice opponent does gives him 75% chances to evade/punish for at least double the damage he risks.
If you look gohan vids he doesn t use stance that mush aside punishing.
He get a 3B blocked once and get hugely punished :|


P.S: on the other what you wrote made me really think that the real problem is raph recovery time...
Being easy to step/duck being punished easily by i25 + moves is awkward...
That should be the starting point for future raph development.
If he has to be a (not so) fast light hitter, then balance him making him punishable only by fast moves....
 
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PrepK, SE, prep4 should be complementary and part of a mixup in order to avoid opponent to have easy chances to beat the stance.
Yep. SE being pretty much TC in 1 frame, and staying TC (though i've been grabbed out of SE B, its been super rare) so its solid. Prep 4 is lacking because the backstep is poor because they want the aGI hurtbox of raph to actually be hit-able, and that prep 4 really has mediocre options aside from meter usage. Prep K is ... what it is lol.

If you look gohan vids he doesn t use stance that mush aside punishing.
He get a 3B blocked once and get hugely punished :|
Yep. Prep is 80% about getting maximum damage from punish, and maybe 20% usage for pressure/SE entrance? Very conservative way to play but its what works against safer opponents with anti=raph knowledge.

I somehow feel Ive done or said something wrong WuHT. I don't know why but if I have I'm sorry.
The point of this discussion thread is, if you have a question and you direct it at a particular person, they'll try to re-word their idea so you can better understand it. You said earlier that you didnt' quite follow my long winded posts so hopefully that cleared things up. The same applies to darkfender, his general feelings on several core issues shou

Anyway, with all the different possible buffs with Prep K, wouldn't making it cause KND on NH pose an issue with Prep KBE?? We do need a separate thread to discuss Prep K.
Yeah thats the thing, whether the 2nd hit of prep K BE will connect in time (of course the combo should remain NH unless something crazy happens).

like the idea of reducing the Prep entry frames. (I feel that he shouldn't twirl his sword so many times, just once and back to neutral). Fits the style of a fencer in a way. We'll need to focus on this more.
This part I should clarify.
Prep-entry frames = the amount of "real time" that it takes from 3(B) or 4(B) or 6b(B) until Raph actually enters preparation phase. Normally on block, it doesn't really matter becuase your opponent has a "block stagger" animation, but if 3(B) and 4(B) whiff, then the earlier you enter prep, the shorter the window your opponent can punish your whiff because you can more quickly access SE and prep4.

Can you explain why Prep K would conflict with Prep 4 and SE?? Most people use a good TC mid to counter PrepBB and those even beats out sucky Prep 4 and SE most of the time.
In my experience, most of the time prep4 fails is because I input it too early and actually get hit right after the aGI window ends. Its a timing issue, and it seems REALLY risky to delay an input in prep stance.

Buffed Prep K would be a great tool to pose a threat and condition them to permit safe SE entrance. Se is only a quality stance in terms of it's attacks.
This part is key. As long as prepK is a threat, then your chance of entering SE safely increases. This is why, imo Prep K needs to be more rewarding, and not more safe. Heck if Prep K BE was -9 on block i'd be fine with that (because the safety on the 2nd hit is generally meaningless) as long as it did even more damage or had no tracking/whiff issues.
 
Prep 4's biggest issue is that he has garbage options after it. I recommend against using it if shit's on the line. If Prep 4 didn't force back into Prep then it would be better since it would offer a proper aGI. You risk soooo much for using it. If I could have 4, maybe 5 things to change on Raph since I haven't weighed in on this thread yet.

1. 4A needs to be safe and offer a CH crumple again.
2. 11K needs to trip properly and offer RO again.
3. 1A needs significant frame buff. No reason a character should incur that move's risk for 10 damage and losing adv.
4. Give him his damn AS and RS back. Pyzzha gets to keep her AS but not Raph? WTF.

I guess as a bonus give him 3A from Prep. Make it so that after the knock back the match basically resets so it's not broke. He needs a better way to say "Let me get into SE". Maybe an A+BA/B M/L mixup also but now I'm getting greedy.

big damage combos without having to rely on BE and CE (thank you WuHT for that point).

You're still fairly new to Raph aren't you? :D He gets more damage and more easy damage at that then any other game he's been in. Be happy with what we've got for now.
 
1. 4A needs to be safe and offer a CH crumple again.
this move is awful...completely terrible...i used it to avoid some mixups back in scIV, now he get hit by MOST verticals..... they probably did something to his starting frames or such but i hate how they somehow nerfed every single raph move.....
Considering the TS is so bad i don t even complain it doesn t stun...

3. 1A needs significant frame buff. No reason a character should incur that move's risk for 10 damage and losing adv.
well it hits far, damage buff is what we need here.....

4. Give him his damn AS and RS back. Pyzzha gets to keep her AS but not Raph? WTF.
what is AS amd RS :O?


I guess as a bonus give him 3A from Prep. Make it so that after the knock back the match basically resets so it's not broke. He needs a better way to say "Let me get into SE". Maybe an A+BA/B M/L mixup also but now I'm getting greedy.
when you feel you are being greedy just look at yoshimitsu (but even zwei, sieg etc)......and its not even top tier...

Almost any character got a huge offensive buff from scIV having some of his mixups becoming from reactable to PURE 50%

there is anything i saw till now that is on the same league of other characters mixups.
 
4A is a slow nigh readable high. Do it enough and it becomes readable. Making it safe and CH on counter would not break Raph. I wouldn't mind a trade off, no CH ok, then make it safe. CH, ok then make it slightly unsafe. Other characters can CH fish for days with mostly safe moves if not completely safe moves. 4A is actually one of my biggest sore spots with Raph's development since 2. I don't expect every one to agree with my list small as it is.

A 3A from Prep would do wonders for Raph and wouldn't break him. Just make it even on block or something with some push back so Raph can regain his preferred distance and make Prep safer.

And don't take the joke too personally daddy-o.
 
Yes, Prep A_B 6AB would be decent. They'd have to speed up the transition because I remember getting my shit rocked for using it the wrong times. In fact it might actually be excellent after his new speedier Prep transitions since the moves actually cancel into stance now instead of stance coming after the move like it used to.
 
As for safety, since it's already slow and high, why not make it around -12?? I would be fine with that.
So would I, as my character can launch that. =)

Joking aside, what are Raph players using for half screen whiff punishment?
 
I was more thinking about giving Raph spacing options back so he doesn't have to risk getting TCed in order to space.
 
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...In fact it might actually be excellent after his new speedier Prep transitions since the moves actually cancel into stance now instead of stance coming after the move like it used to.
Yes this is a good way to sum up what i've been saying. You can cancel the recovery frames of any prep starter by entering the stance, which basically messes up your opponent's timing of their responses (while keeping the same frames on hit/block) and also protects raph when he whiffs.

Obviously moves like 3(B), 4(B) and 44A(B) should have more frames actually cancelled, while moves like prepB(B) and 6B(B) may not change much (or else it'd look like prepBB,BB,BB,BB,BB,BB) and we'd all know there would be inevitable crying about how overpowered raph looks.

So would I, as my character can launch that. =)

Joking aside, what are Raph players using for half screen whiff punishment?

Pretty much 236B.
66(B) is more damage (56 vs 42) but is slightly less range and slower.
Raph in all honestly is pretty mediocre when it comes to whiff punishing in terms of damage, but he's pretty reliable because he'll rarely be out-of-range to punish.
I never understood why people thought raph was a whiff punish type character. I can understand that it's one of the few ways he can do damage, but I dont' see him excelling in that area.

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About PrepAB: I don't think improving this move from being really bad to "mediocre" will change things much. It does have it's uses but I see it more as a situational counter. If there were a limited number of Raph buffs to be issued out, I don't want to see prepAB/6AB getting one over something (i find) more important, like a buffed 1A, B+K or prepK.
 
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