Raphael's SCV Command List

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Almost 50 damage for a i16 punish at close range and the same 38 damage at far range ? I suppose i'll take it!
3B series > BBB series it looks like.

Lol @ 22B, 3(B)~prepBBB being more damage than SC4's 22(B)~VEB:B!! That is good news indeed! Especially since it seems like prepBBB looks to be + on hit.

Looks like raph's ground hitting moves are either 11BB or 11K.

My hype has been re-established!
 
i like using BB as an easy whiff punish or interrupt if a bad spacer starts attacking from a distance, 3(b) seems like the better poke on every side: + on block (if you go to prep, so they must always be ready for it), good dmg on hit and + frames too. i'm not sure what the advantage is, but bb gave me very little frames (guessing 0/+1) on hit, whilest prepAB can at least go back to prep(which i believe gives + again) and prepBB seems to give better frames than normal BB.

BB as a poke from advantage worked badly for me too as it was easily sidesteppable, 3B seemed to connect much more often (which could be my opponants fault, haven't tested it).

raph has a bad time vs up close opponants with his fastest moves being so linear, there is no quick escape option, you just need to bide your time and 3a/3b when you get your turn or possibly crush with 1k (which could be unsafe).

have you seen any good use of 44ab in video's? i never use it because it is slow and has too short range. nor have i found any good use for his kicks.
 
Gentleman, there is no need to hype my good friend play the game and claims that she is even more poorer than SC4 was.
Raph has only one prep, some moves just disappeared like prep K iK, no just frames, VE A is now AutoEvade, there are 3 or 4 EX moves with this cool yellow glow and thats all

but even so i must play the game and see how it really is.

meybee i gona like new sc........
 
6BB and Prep BB can both be counter-hit confirmed into BE. You can hold B for Prep and still perform the BE in both cases.

22B is awesome, allows 3(B)~BBB/BE.

22A mostly for advantage afaik.

Counter-hit 3(B) alone definitely does not guarantee BE. Best used post 22B/SE B/guard break/wall splat.

B throw at the wall gives A+BA, 1B at the wall gives 3(B)~BBB/BE.

His new command throw is nice.

NGKrush said:
raph has a bad time vs up close opponants with his fastest moves being so linear, there is no quick escape option, you just need to bide your time and 3a/3b when you get your turn or possibly crush with 1k (which could be unsafe).
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Don't forget about 2A and 6K.

WuHT said:
Looks like raph's ground hitting moves are either 11BB or 11K.
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Don't forget about 1B neither.

shoorykezu said:
Raph has only one prep, some moves just disappeared like prep K iK, no just frames, VE A is now AutoEvade, there are 3 or 4 EX moves with this cool yellow glow and thats all
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The new changes are far more than superficial, and moves like Prep K:K might as well get cut.
 
@NGKrush : Thank you so much for the info !

Did you try the following combo : SEB, 66B, CE ?
And, if it still exists, does SEB, 66(B), prep A+B do more damage than SEB, 3B, prepBBB ?

NGKrush said:
22b
-3(b)bbb (65)

Se b
-3(b)bbb (80)
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That means we have a whiff punisher that does more than 25% damage (if the life bar is still 240 points). And the SEB combo takes a 1/3 of the bar. That makes me really optimistic.

As for close range combat, did you try mixing 2A, WRB and 3A ? And maybe FC3B and 2K.
 
how come no body likes 6A upclose ? (now 6AB). That thing never failed against people who stepped to raph's left upclose in SC4, and hopefully it does the same in SC5.
 
WuHT said:
how come no body likes 6A upclose ? (now 6AB). That thing never failed against people who stepped to raph's left upclose in SC4, and hopefully it does the same in SC5.
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We'll have to see if it catches quick step up close. You forget how bad step was in SC4, lol.

Also have we now confirmed that 22a CH doesn't guarantee super anymore in the final build? It absolutely still did when I played the game, that would be a huge deal for it to not work anymore.

EDIT: The timing was really strict, so take that into account.
 
Yeah I was reading it. If raph's CE is faster than i13, then maybe thats why its the only move that could combo off 22A on CH.

I expect a big discussion on whether u go for the 65 damgae of 22B~3(B)prepBBB vs 62 damage 22B~3(B)prepA(B) into mixups.

hype hype!
 
WuHT said:
I expect a big discussion on whether u go for the 65 damgae of 22B~3(B)prepBBB vs 62 damage 22B~3(B)prepA(B) into mixups.
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It's very range dependent since Prep AB doesn't always reach, but even then I would cancel Prep BB's on hit into SE opportunities etc if I don't have the meter for BE.
 
Hudathan said:
It's very range dependent since Prep AB doesn't always reach, but even then I would cancel Prep BB's on hit into SE opportunities etc if I don't have the meter for BE.
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my hunch is that both on hit and on block, that prepAB is superior to prepBB when it comes to transitioning frames.
But range is not really an issue that raph users are used to dealing with.

Is raph in range ?
Can I ring him out ?
What tech traps and wall combos should i set up for ?

Those are unheard of questions lol
 
Transitioning is hard to get a feel for since Prep isn't really used for counter-hitting anymore. I was consistently able to beat out a lot of standing options with Prep BB off 3(B) and 6B(B) entries not to mention re-entries, whereas Prep AB left me punishable on block if I didn't choose to re-enter Prep. On hit both Prep BB and AB are good enough to continue pressure or transition into SE options. They have different uses. Prep BB is his only option at long range off both 3(B) and 1(B) and can be counter-hit confirmed into his BE. Prep AB is good for mid range 3(B) normal hits when you don't have 50% meter and Prep BBB isn't guaranteed even on counter-hit 3(B). Raph shares this issue with many other characters and have to choose between different methods of follow-up to stuns and hit advantage depending on the range where the opponent got caught.

The good news so far is that raph has something for just about every situation. He has a long range game with short range tools, he has horizontals that work well enough for his purpose, he has good 8wr moves, and he does good damage with meter. He has a pretty good guard break game and can force some oki and wall/ring out game with the new command throw mixed with B throw and 1B for ground hits and wall splat which all give good damage.
 
i haven't been able to find very good rind out options tbh. as he has nearly any air juggles (besides 66a+b), that isn't an option. prep k~be is good but unsafe on block, b-throw is obvious, 66k is not a move i connect often.

1b is missing more than hitting in the oki game, it's very linear. sticking to 33b atm.

agree with hudathan on the guardbreak game. he can keep up the pressure and 66b is a great move which is hard to step on reaction. he has great options from either prep or normal to do some good dmg on guardbreak (22b out of prep, bb~be in prep (possibly se b to combo if your fast enough, haven't tried).

prep a(b) back into prep doesn't seem to give great frames on hit. it gives a riskier mixup where opponants fastest highs could interrupt, but you could SE and counter that, but if he does a slightly slower mid(which you would be able to interrupt with prep ab/bb) your SE is countered. haven't tested so far, but from my 2 nights of playing friends (offline) i got interrupted after prep a(b) a few times.

took your tips on 6ab which worked well vs pressure, tnx for that! got to start mixing in the new throw too!

22a could still guarantee super, i know aa doesn't work after it, so if super is faster than aa, possibly.

I'm sure 33k doesn't hit on purpose, if you could connect 33k~be and a super after it after 22b or se b, that would be too much damage.

raph might not have the combo-ing supers like cervantes and mitsu have(painful!!), but his pressuregame after prep bb~be is very strong. all his options are open to keep your attack going!
 
Fendante said:
And what about his A+G throw?? Does it still RO like in SC4?? I don't think 11K can RO even on CH. Also, the second and third hits of BBB are unsafe right??
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I tested this. A+G doesn't ring out and BB is unsafe, AA punishable by Pyrrah
 
A+g rings out to raphs right like always, se k isnt any different from nh, so no ringout. Both bbb and prep bbb can be punished by raph 3b. I dont know framedata of other characters, but bb was safe vs raph, maybe a faster character can punish like wesker says.
 
Thanks for the info.

We'll work out the actual frames/damage soon.

Lets see who discovers the juiciest 66A+B combo.
 
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