LGInfinite
[09] Warrior
I have to second the complaints about CAS armour. It just looks ridiculous when you get hit by BB and all of your clothes just explode off.
Really not impressed with the create a fighter
- Thread starter subsmoke
- Start date
LGInfinite
[09] Warrior
I'd love to be able to customise character's movesets just to see what sort of combos you could string together. I can just see it now... Hilde with iMCF, Mitsu's 2KB, NM's iagA, and all that jazz...
WuHT
Premium Moderator
Well they're definately humanoid with human proportions.. read what you said earlier... it's not unreasonable to assume that you meant some 50 foot monster. You said monstrous yourself, and I replied with monstrous.
If they are, then you might as well tack on a 1p and 2p costume, a unique voice set, and a backstory and you'd have yourself a brand new SC character.
So for the sake of being "different", now to use the new moveset X i have to create a CAS to do it ? Either way you are not seeing the point that now in order to use a certain moveset (let's say for a tourny) you'd have to have a CAS thats not uniform across the board (and even if everyond did agree to a certain formula, the solution would not be as good as if the moveset was put on a REAL SC character).
And yes, fighters you make should NOT have a unique moveset if it could be applied to a new SC character.
That's just limiting the roster.
Let's say there is a moveset using the sai. Would you be happy if it was a CAS only moveset, or there was an actual SC character (proper costume/voice/backstory) that also uses the said weapon (sai) ?
... I think you're missing what im' saying. Just because you don't want to put on a knight helmet and a skirt for block damage C, someone else out there might think that's a cool combo. If clothing comes with variable stats (that you could purchase) then congratulations.
The big points about how little extra effort a unique moveset could be turned into a new SC character you fail to address. You want to sacrifice a perfectly good opportunity for a new SC character so you could have a unique moveset that is CAS only, which is absurd. In fact, everything else is a moot point except for this one.
subsmoke
[10] Knight
Sure, as long as you, the player, get to decide all that for yourself. Well not unique voice, they'd be too worried about people using cuss words and stuff. But at least a large variety of voices.
I'm not sure I understood all that, but why wouldn't the solution be as good as if it was put on a "real" SC character? A moveset is a moveset, no matter who you put it on and it works the same way.
Then why even have a CAS mode? May as well just scrap it altogether. Unless you just want to play "dress em up" as Nukleurfire puts it. But as far as gameplay and tournaments go, it wouldn't make a difference if CAS mode was there or not.
If somebody wants to put on a knight helmet and a skirt, that's fine. But that should be up to the player to decide without them feeling pressured to do it just so they can get a certain type of skill point.
I'll give you an example. You know Sagat from Street Fighter? Let's say you want to make him. The only thing he wears is blue fighting shorts and an eye patch. If I did that in SCIV, I'd probably be stuck with very low HP, attack and defense, and very few skill points. So to fix that, I'd probably have to give him a helmet, body armor, gloves, pants, leg armor, socks, shoes, and whatever else. But then he wouldn't look like Sagat. He would just look like a random person with a ton of armor on. See?
So I don't want clothing to affect stats at all. That way everyone gets what they want. Of course stats would need to be balanced, just not by what you wear. Then if you want block damage C, you can get that no matter whether you use a hula skirt or long pants or something else. So in your way and in SCIV, you're limited. In my way, you can put what you want on your fighter and the skills you want without having to use one thing to get another.
Little extra effort? They have to design the character, write up a story for it, do voice work, etc. Easier than designing a moveset maybe, but I would call it more than a little extra effort.
I see where you're coming from in a way but, you have no interest in CAS having their own moveset? I just don't see the point of CAS then if they can only use the main cast's weapons. Besides, if a CAS weapon style turns out to be popular they can turn it into a full character next game.
Dullyanna
[10] Knight
Yo don't diss dress-ups.
WuHT
Premium Moderator
Please tell me why ALL movesets shouldn't be applicable to CAS only characters. Why do we have siegfried, taki,sophie..etc etc.. Why not all characters be removed, leaving blanks with movelists to be edited by the players themselves ? It's called polish, which is much more achievable and some dress-up CAS.
After reading your replies, you still haven't justified why it would be better to go with CAS blanks with movesets as opposed to a hilde or a algol.
This is why you're still replying. If you can respond to the above question, then I'd be surprised. For reference..compare the the results of the CAS only movesets of SC3 to the actual SC3 characters.. and you'll notice a definate difference in quality.
That's exactly what it's for. It took you pretty long to figure that out. Again this is you, for the sake of "CAS being unique" are willing to sacrifice proper SC characters..which is absurd. Should we remove Hilde and Algol, and make their move-set CAS only ? I'm not sure how much more clear I can state how poorly thought out this is.
unimportant point because that's a matter of taste, so w/e. Having more (extra quantity) of any option is always beneficial.
Sure give him 20 different eyepatches, all with variable stats. Go crazy.
You're telling me, that it's NOT worth adding on a storyline, default 1p and 2p costume, + proper voice acting for an existing moveset ? The biggest point you just stated that must be addressed is, why on earth would you want to wait till the NEXT game before the moveset becomes a "full character".
There's not a good reason to not put in the extra effort in the present iteration. So again, there isn't a good reason for CAS-only unique movesets.
subsmoke
[10] Knight
I'm talking about once they are done with the roster. Obviously if they thought of a good character and a good story for it I wouldn't want them to scrap it just for a CAS-only moveset. Soul Calibur already has a big enough problem with not having enough new characters every game as it is. But once they make, say, 6 or so new characters and they are done, then they could focus on CAS weapons.
Yeah I was gonna bring that up but I barely spent any time in CAS mode in SCIII so I dunno if they were any good or not or if they were used in tournaments.
Wait so you're telling me you want CAS mode to be a dress em up? 8 Way Run is for the competitive area of Soul Calibur. And in that way CAS mode is worthless. It does nothing at all for the competitive scene of the game. Still, I do care about that part of CAS too and that's one of my complaints that there's not enough character options, but that seems to be the only part of CAS that matters to you.
But see there's the thing, I don't want the eyepatch to affect my stats.
Let's say the eye patch was necessary to use a certain type of skill. So if you want that skill, you have to use the eye patch. Now let's say you make a character and you want that skill, but you don't want an eye patch. You have no choice. Either you use the eye patch or you don't get the skill. You have to choose one or the other. See?
Nukleurfire
[09] Warrior
>:( dressup is seriuz bizniss.
WuHT
Premium Moderator
Let's say there are two options
1) 10 regular SC characters, with 10 CAS only move-sets. NOw you can say that you have a fully-functional CAS because of the unique moveset. Now you have your quoted "character options"
2) 20 regular SC characters, with the CAS movesets as the only skins/edits of the regular characters.
Please tell me why option 1 is better than option 2.
Spyrl-9
[08] Mercenary
First off, I'd like to make clear that I think this is very unlikely, for a number of reasons.
But, I think a working "Create-a-Moveset" could be properly done. A pre-set point system would probably be the best way to (mostly) avoid balancing issues. Each weapon would be rated in seperate catergories, such as speed, power, and range(just an example). (Character body types could also have such strength/limitations, from a weak but fast Talim sized body, to the slow but strongest Asteroth size. This already taken into account may eliminate many of the "wiffs", and "telekinetic" grabs CaS's with larger weapons do.)
When you choose a weapon, you can only choose from a list of moves that fit into that weapons's catergories (like speed, power, range, -example: if you pick Asteroth's axe, you could choose to also take some moves from Siegfried, Rock, Nightmare, and a few from Kilik and Mina -attacks that would be believable with the chosen weapon, with extra "characterless" moves added to the mode to choose from as well). Limitations would have to be put in, of course, perhaps a set number of points (depending on the weapon) for each catergory (with each choosable move costing a set number of points in one catergory or more) and also (obviously)
moves could only be assigned to the button, moves the button, so on, so that you could still somewhat "read" someone's moves and know how to react.
Anyway, this could fleshed out far more, but it's just a basic idea. It could be possible, but...
I'm sure you've all seen each character's movelists -they're massive. To make such access available to this degree of customization, a "Created Moveset" would have to be considerably smaller than the regular characters. Like the CaS weapons from SCIII.
Also, with the "NextGen" systems of memory cardless hard drives, you could only use the characters you've put hours into (tweaking movesets) at home. If you go to a tournament, or even a friend's house, you have no access to your "perfect" warrior, and have to play as one of the regular cast anyway.
Another, rather large, issue is still balancing. While a pre-set point system would resolve most of this, unfair advantages still slip through the cracks with regular characters that have been put together and tested, much less singular moves potentially put into countless combinations. The patch team would have their hands full.
Don't get me wrong, I would love to have this feature, and would spend hours on characters -even if I can only use them at home. But, alot would have to go into making this happen. And alot of issues would have to be remedied just right to make this potentially awesome mode even close to worth it.
But, I think a working "Create-a-Moveset" could be properly done. A pre-set point system would probably be the best way to (mostly) avoid balancing issues. Each weapon would be rated in seperate catergories, such as speed, power, and range(just an example). (Character body types could also have such strength/limitations, from a weak but fast Talim sized body, to the slow but strongest Asteroth size. This already taken into account may eliminate many of the "wiffs", and "telekinetic" grabs CaS's with larger weapons do.)
When you choose a weapon, you can only choose from a list of moves that fit into that weapons's catergories (like speed, power, range, -example: if you pick Asteroth's axe, you could choose to also take some moves from Siegfried, Rock, Nightmare, and a few from Kilik and Mina -attacks that would be believable with the chosen weapon, with extra "characterless" moves added to the mode to choose from as well). Limitations would have to be put in, of course, perhaps a set number of points (depending on the weapon) for each catergory (with each choosable move costing a set number of points in one catergory or more) and also (obviously)
moves could only be assigned to the button, moves the button, so on, so that you could still somewhat "read" someone's moves and know how to react.Anyway, this could fleshed out far more, but it's just a basic idea. It could be possible, but...
I'm sure you've all seen each character's movelists -they're massive. To make such access available to this degree of customization, a "Created Moveset" would have to be considerably smaller than the regular characters. Like the CaS weapons from SCIII.
Also, with the "NextGen" systems of memory cardless hard drives, you could only use the characters you've put hours into (tweaking movesets) at home. If you go to a tournament, or even a friend's house, you have no access to your "perfect" warrior, and have to play as one of the regular cast anyway.
Another, rather large, issue is still balancing. While a pre-set point system would resolve most of this, unfair advantages still slip through the cracks with regular characters that have been put together and tested, much less singular moves potentially put into countless combinations. The patch team would have their hands full.
Don't get me wrong, I would love to have this feature, and would spend hours on characters -even if I can only use them at home. But, alot would have to go into making this happen. And alot of issues would have to be remedied just right to make this potentially awesome mode even close to worth it.
pineapplejuice
[09] Warrior
wow theres alot of quoting going on in this thread, i'd guess that CaS was tacked on at the end on sc4's production, the next tekken's 'CaS' looks really good, hopefully theyll build on that for the next sc, who knows.
Malice
Super Moderator
I'm really not impressed with this discussion about being not impressed with the CAS mode. :-)
Jokes aside, I'm thinking about picking up Broken Destiny to see what "improvements" were made. Here's some more of my thoughts:
1. Before I want to see improvements made, I want to see the broke stuff that is currently in the game fixed.
2. I don't mind the armor breaking, but I would like to see something a little more realistic as in armor/clothes not completely off as with the 1P and 2P costumes eventhough that would mean no more fights between two hot females wearing next to nothing, or two hot guys if that's how you roll. But it's silly to have clothes flying off in Round 1.
3. I never did like the special mode that's in SC4 because of how ridiculous it is. If you want to make a strong character, it will look ugly because of how the points are attributed to the clothes you select, the weapon you choose, the character that you decide to use and their level. But that stuff is in there for the casual players and because of how weak the single player component is with the Barely A Story Mode and the Tower Of Lost Souls. So you need to do something to give those modes some more meat and lessen the impression of fighting the same people ad nauseum, but that stuff can be done away with.
4. I don't care about created characters since the character that you create won't be on anyone else's console if you travel to play offline or allowed in tournament play. I just don't want to see stuff like Create A Moveset or ideas of the like implemented as it would even further increase the brokenness of this game. But something like that wouldn't make its way into tournament play anyway so whatever.
5. Like I said before CAS mode is not that bad. You can do alot with it, plus it's better than nothing. I would just like to see more armor and clothing available and not tied to being DLC or just to a limited edition release. That's all.
Jokes aside, I'm thinking about picking up Broken Destiny to see what "improvements" were made. Here's some more of my thoughts:
1. Before I want to see improvements made, I want to see the broke stuff that is currently in the game fixed.
2. I don't mind the armor breaking, but I would like to see something a little more realistic as in armor/clothes not completely off as with the 1P and 2P costumes eventhough that would mean no more fights between two hot females wearing next to nothing, or two hot guys if that's how you roll. But it's silly to have clothes flying off in Round 1.
3. I never did like the special mode that's in SC4 because of how ridiculous it is. If you want to make a strong character, it will look ugly because of how the points are attributed to the clothes you select, the weapon you choose, the character that you decide to use and their level. But that stuff is in there for the casual players and because of how weak the single player component is with the Barely A Story Mode and the Tower Of Lost Souls. So you need to do something to give those modes some more meat and lessen the impression of fighting the same people ad nauseum, but that stuff can be done away with.
4. I don't care about created characters since the character that you create won't be on anyone else's console if you travel to play offline or allowed in tournament play. I just don't want to see stuff like Create A Moveset or ideas of the like implemented as it would even further increase the brokenness of this game. But something like that wouldn't make its way into tournament play anyway so whatever.
5. Like I said before CAS mode is not that bad. You can do alot with it, plus it's better than nothing. I would just like to see more armor and clothing available and not tied to being DLC or just to a limited edition release. That's all.
XLcowboy
[09] Warrior
First off, I'd like to make clear that I think this is very unlikely, for a number of reasons.
But, I think a working "Create-a-Moveset" could be properly done. A pre-set point system would probably be the best way to (mostly) avoid balancing issues. Each weapon would be rated in seperate catergories, such as speed, power, and range(just an example). (Character body types could also have such strength/limitations, from a weak but fast Talim sized body, to the slow but strongest Asteroth size. This already taken into account may eliminate many of the "wiffs", and "telekinetic" grabs CaS's with larger weapons do.)
When you choose a weapon, you can only choose from a list of moves that fit into that weapons's catergories (like speed, power, range, -example: if you pick Asteroth's axe, you could choose to also take some moves from Siegfried, Rock, Nightmare, and a few from Kilik and Mina -attacks that would be believable with the chosen weapon, with extra "characterless" moves added to the mode to choose from as well). Limitations would have to be put in, of course, perhaps a set number of points (depending on the weapon) for each catergory (with each choosable move costing a set number of points in one catergory or more) and also (obviously)
Anyway, this could fleshed out far more, but it's just a basic idea. It could be possible, but...
I'm sure you've all seen each character's movelists -they're massive. To make such access available to this degree of customization, a "Created Moveset" would have to be considerably smaller than the regular characters. Like the CaS weapons from SCIII.
Also, with the "NextGen" systems of memory cardless hard drives, you could only use the characters you've put hours into (tweaking movesets) at home. If you go to a tournament, or even a friend's house, you have no access to your "perfect" warrior, and have to play as one of the regular cast anyway.
Another, rather large, issue is still balancing. While a pre-set point system would resolve most of this, unfair advantages still slip through the cracks with regular characters that have been put together and tested, much less singular moves potentially put into countless combinations. The patch team would have their hands full.
Don't get me wrong, I would love to have this feature, and would spend hours on characters -even if I can only use them at home. But, alot would have to go into making this happen. And alot of issues would have to be remedied just right to make this potentially awesome mode even close to worth it.
You're asking Namco to assign the points themselves? That would be like handing a live gun to a child.
All it will take are two of Hilde's moves + some of either Mitsu's or Lizardman's, and the game is effectively broken.
Create-a-move list should never exist in any decent fighting game. Ever.
On topic: CAS is just a bonus feature, and is not meant to be the be-all, end-all of the game. Whining about it makes about as much sense as somebody whining about Tekken force, Tekken bowl, or Tekken ball in Tekken. Just be happy Namco lets you play Mr.Potato Head with the game. However, that being said...
...I find it annoying that you can't use/edit any of the special characters. I want my Yoda with a mowhawk, and I want Starkiller to have a Eagle's head, but for some reason, Namco says no.
Malice
Super Moderator
Editing Star Wars characters would be LucasArts' call and not NB's since I'm sure NB could care less and LucasArts wouldn't want you to put mohawks on their IPs or making CASs with lightsabers which I'm sure alot of people were dying to do to get their nerdgasm on.
SBA
TFNA
To Infernal_Edge, here is a easy way to fix ur CAS skill/clothes issue...
DONT PLAY SPECIAL
hope i was helpful :-)
DONT PLAY SPECIAL
hope i was helpful :-)
Spyrl-9
[08] Mercenary
Amusing and acurate.
Also ironic that the very next thing you said was something you were unhappy about with CaS...
subsmoke
[10] Knight
In the example you gave option 1 wouldn't be better. I'm not saying they should limit the size of the roster just for CAS move-sets. Now if there were 25 or 30 regular SC characters and 25 CAS move-sets then that would be fine. 50 characters would be better but that's not really reasonable.
Yeah but they would prob need some really restrictive point system or I bet it'd wind up like MK Armageddon where you can put together 100% combos and stuff. Maybe if they got the help of real fighting game experts? I dunno if they'd do that though.
FunkyChunkyDude
[08] Mercenary
Best advice said so far. If you hate it that much, play friggin' Standard. No one is forcing you to play Special Mode. Or the game in general. If it bothers you to the point where you can't stand to play the game and feel the need to whine about it on a fansite no one at Namco would bother to look at, then PLAY SOMETHING ELSE.
WuHT
Premium Moderator
yes thats good you realize the limitations of project soul. If they could only properly develop X amount of full movelists, they should also have X amount of real SC characters, just because it's better for them to have full-SC characters to advertise the new re-iteration.
Saying that "NEW TAMBORINE STYLE CAS" doesn't sell as many copies as a new SC character.