SC Controversial Topics and General Shitposting Thread

DanteSC3

[14] Master
Hwang should have a line in his Soul Chronicle where he mispronounces Yun-seong as Yun-soong, as a throwback to his originally mistranslated name Yunsung. I would laugh so much at this, and then Yun-seong can be flustered about senpai not saying his name properly.
 

DanteSC3

[14] Master
you know what? i LOVE SC6 more than SCV!
-checks to make sure this is the shitposting thread-

-it is-

-okay-

I'm honestly actually not entirely convinced that I do, personally. In the bigger picture, yes, SoulCalibur VI is better for the franchise than was SoulCalibur V, but it also does a lot of things that I don't like, at the same time, and I feel like, aside from all the inbetween implications of everything else, I still found SoulCalibur V more fun to play than SoulCalibur VI.

(And it's not just because I miss Natsu and Elysium. :sc5nat1: :sc5sc:)
 

Dissidia

Premium Member
-checks to make sure this is the shitposting thread-

-it is-

-okay-

I'm honestly actually not entirely convinced that I do, personally. In the bigger picture, yes, SoulCalibur VI is better for the franchise than was SoulCalibur V, but it also does a lot of things that I don't like, at the same time, and I feel like, aside from all the inbetween implications of everything else, I still found SoulCalibur V more fun to play than SoulCalibur VI.

(And it's not just because I miss Natsu and Elysium. :sc5nat1: :sc5sc:)
Now I know you’re shitposting!

Joking aside, I find SC4, SC5 and SC6 to be this odd collection of games that each excel over each other in different ways.

SC4 has the best roster in the series though it’s gameplay is so fuckin slow

SC5 has a polished beautiful look and crisp gameplay (just needed meterless GI to be perfect) but a horrid roster and offline features (best creation mode though)

SC6 has the best offline content since SC3 but it’s not saying much considering it’s still missing stuff like survival, etc. Creation is a step back from 5 and the roster was pretty barebones on launch.

Graphics are kinda sloppy/dated and generic looking stage art design doesn’t help.
Gameplay is fun but it does feel a bit “heavy” with all the mechanics you have to keep track of. Sometimes I miss the simple nature of prior games before I needed to know rose counters and dark legacy whatever.

But the characters do feel the most unique they’ve ever been. Especially the dlc
 

DanteSC3

[14] Master
SC4 has the best roster in the series though it’s gameplay is so fuckin slow
I would argue that SoulCalibur III: Arcade Edition has the best roster in the series, though it’s close. I much prefer Hwang and Li Long to Hilde and Algol, and while I love Kamikirimusi to death, her not having a unique style kinda kills any advantage she would offer to break the tie. Same for Ashlotte.
SC5 has a polished beautiful look and crisp gameplay (just needed meterless GI to be perfect) but a horrid roster and offline features (best creation mode though)
Yes, exactly, if SoulCalibur VI played just like SoulCalibur V but with meter less GI, there is no doubt in my mind that SoulCalibur VI would be undisputedly better. The obscene gimmicks and new unneeded mechanics breaking the flow of things really bogs down SoulCalibur VI for me personally. But I will never hate Lady Natsu for dethroning Taki, that was one of the finer details of that roster. And I remain disappointed that Inferno didn’t follow in Elysium’s footsteps, being a mimic with enhanced styles, which would have been far better than the beast we got in SoulCalibur VI.

But the characters do feel the most unique they’ve ever been. Especially the dlc
This is such a double edged sword, though. Yes, uniqueness is nice and it’s great to crush the “clone” arguments, but at the same time, it leads to janky nonsense like Divine Force Cassandra, and if Hwang actually does have flaming footsies, you heard it here first that I absolutely called it. It would be so stupid, however. We shall see.
 

Dissidia

Premium Member
I am trying to avoid spoilers, though I admit that since it’s not he full FF7 story and it’s been 5 years since it was announced I really don’t feel hyped for it.

After all, it’s been like 14 years or so since they’ve made a good numbered final fantasy game that isn’t an MMO
 

Rusted Blade

[11] Champion
After all, it’s been like 14 years or so since they’ve made a good numbered final fantasy game that isn’t an MMO
-does the math-

A Final Fantasy XII fan? No wonder we get along so well.
I still say those MMO games should never have been listed as numbered entries, but as a separate product line marketed accordingly. I know that the grindy, fetchy, generic quest structure with a story awkwardly wrapped around your generic silent protagonist (that is to say, the MMO formula broadly) appeals to many people, but in my opinion it is a fundamentally different type of experience from what defined the core franchise.

Anyway, so I take it from your comments that my read on FFXV was accurate: pretty much everything I've explored with regard to that game suggested that, while closer to the traditional FF experience than XIII or XIV, that it still didn't really hit that mark of a true return to form that so many longterm fans of the franchise had hoped for (especially after it's decade of development!). Visually it looks great, and in many respects seems to fulfill the promise of traditional features being merged with modern gameplay, but I was put off by its apparently limited cast (apparently an exclusively male cast for most intents and purposes) and much of what I heard about the on-rails nature of the gameplay.

I also was not very much impressed with the purported approach of spreading the vital elements of the plot out across numerous ancillary products in numerous different media; it's one thing try a cross-media approach where extra products flesh out a world and the significance of events in the main game, but it's another thing entirely when you are expected to have watched four anime, bought five DLC prologue chapters, and played a mobile game just to understand the basics of the story from the start of the main game/core product. That's just bad design and storytelling. Were my instincts right: is this one to miss, or is it worth a look for someone who hasn't enjoyed the direction of the series since around the releases of X and XII? For my money, the essential games in the series are IV, VI, VII, VIII, IX, X, and XII, just to give you an idea of where I thought the franchise was at its best.

Wait a minute...i feel like I've asked this question here already once upon a time... ~shrugs~ Probably was talking with Dante then as well!
 

DanteSC3

[14] Master
I still say those MMO games should never have been listed as numbered entries, but as a separate product line marketed accordingly. I know that the grindy, fetchy, generic quest structure with a story awkwardly wrapped around your generic silent protagonist (that is to say, the MMO formula broadly) appeals to many people, but in my opinion it is a fundamentally different type of experience from what defined the core franchise.
I definitely agree, but it is what it is. It would make the Final Fantasy XIII trilogy the owner of the number XII, which would just be unforgivable. (I know it wouldn't make a lick of difference if it never happened that Final Fantasy XII garnered the love that it did, but present me can't see such a thing being alright.) Though Final Fantasy XV would have been the Final Fantasy XIII game that it originally wanted to be, so I guess maybe that could have worked out? (I'm being silly.)

Anyway, so I take it from your comments that my read on FFXV was accurate: pretty much everything I've explored with regard to that game suggested that, while closer to the traditional FF experience than XIII or XIV, that it still didn't really hit that mark of a true return to form that so many longterm fans of the franchise had hoped for (especially after it's decade of development!). Visually it looks great, and in many respects seems to fulfill the promise of traditional features being merged with modern gameplay, but I was put off by its apparently limited cast (apparently an exclusively male cast for most intents and purposes) and much of what I heard about the on-rails nature of the gameplay.
I wouldn't say that it's closer to the traditional Final Fantasy experience at all. In fact, it's so abstract and its own thing that I hesitate to call it Final Fantasy even more than anyone ever did about Final Fantasy XIII. The "Final Fantasy" brand is just such a legacy at this point, where most of its love was attained through their classic older games, that anything modern they try and do is just going to come off as offensive, I think.

It's a fine modern game, from some respects, but tying it to Final Fantasy just seems like it's holding it back more than anything else. Every time that the fans would ask them to include some form of staple from Final Fantasy, like, I don't know, an airship, they would technically add it, but in the most slipshod way possible that makes it seem like they were just like "...FINE!" and did it out of obligation, and then wondered why we weren't happy about it, when they didn't put real effort into doing it, instead staying true to what they wanted in the first place. Which, again, would have been fine if that was their vision from the start, and they didn't let anyone taint it, but it's so middling that I don't understand who exactly it appeals to. Certainly not long-time fans.

It's not super on-rails, as there's a lot of faffing about you can do, and you can put the story on backburner almost anytime you'd like, but yes, the main story beats are quite linear, as they have to be. Still, you can just freeroam and do as you please without a sense of urgency and take in the "road trip" aspect at your leisure. It does that pretty nicely, actually, but when the story isn't urgent, it begs the ask why it's important at all? I know all RPGs do this kind of thing to some extent, but it seems particularly problematic in this game, considering what's at stake and what's going on.

I also was not very much impressed with the purported approach of spreading the vital elements of the plot out across numerous ancillary products in numerous different media; it's one thing try a cross-media approach where extra products flesh out a world and the significance of events in the main game, but it's another thing entirely when you are expected to have watched four anime, bought five DLC prologue chapters, and played a mobile game just to understand the basics of the story from the start of the main game/core product. That's just bad design and storytelling. Were my instincts right: is this one to miss, or is it worth a look for someone who hasn't enjoyed the direction of the series since around the releases of X and XII? For my money, the essential games in the series are IV, VI, VII, VIII, IX, X, and XII, just to give you an idea of where I thought the franchise was at its best.
I would say, at this stage, if you picked up Final Fantasy XV: Royal Edition, you'd mostly have a finished product without much need for the ancillary parts. The Kingsglaive movie gives some nifty backstory, as does the Brotherhood mini-series, but it's not absolutely required reading. The DLC chapters, however, were egregiously cut out portions of the game that, without prior knowledge that there would be DLC, you could easily point out while you're going through the game as, "well yep, this is where some DLC is...", and it's pretty bleh overall. If you're referring to the Pocket Edition with the "mobile game" comment, assuming it was serious, then no, that's not needed whatsoever.

It's still a crime, though, even with Royal Edition, that the DLC remains not baked into the game experience. If you wanted to do it all in order, you'd get to the part of the game where the DLC chapter was cut, exit the main game, load up the DLC subgame, play it, then go back to the main game, not really having much to keep from what you'd just done. I was expecting them to do this, to maybe make the Royal Edition a worthy purchase for current owners of the original game and the season pass, but no, as seems to be the norm for Final Fantasy games at this point, PS4 players get royally screwed. They do add some extension to the final chapters, which were lacking in the original, but for that to be a $20 upgrade for owners of the original game and season pass, not included in the season pass? Ugh... never have I felt as betrayed to be a loyal fan to something. Yes, I play SoulCalibur.

Aside, no love for Final Fantasy V? And you like Final Fantasy VIII? -shun- (I'm not serious, but Final Fantasy V is among my favorites, and I really don't care for Final Fantasy VIII. It could be that you haven't played Final Fantasy V, and if that's the case, I won't hold it against you... much.)

Wait a minute...i feel like I've asked this question here already once upon a time... ~shrugs~ Probably was talking with Dante then as well!
It's possible! I'm still willing to engage/oblige, though. :sc4amy1:
 

Rusted Blade

[11] Champion
It's not super on-rails, as there's a lot of faffing about you can do, and you can put the story on backburner almost anytime you'd like, but yes, the main story beats are quite linear, as they have to be. Still, you can just freeroam and do as you please without a sense of urgency and take in the "road trip" aspect at your leisure. It does that pretty nicely, actually, but when the story isn't urgent, it begs the ask why it's important at all? I know all RPGs do this kind of thing to some extent, but it seems particularly problematic in this game, considering what's at stake and what's going on.
Actually, with regard to the apparent on-rails feel of some of the game, I was speaking more to the combat and some of the finer mechanics rather than the overall game design and narrative flow; as you say, those things are to a large extent dictated by the RPG format and a certain strict order of story elements expected (and arguably even crucial) in a mainline/non-MMO Final Fantasy. I actually think (with a few brilliant exceptions of games doing unique things with their design) that's true of most all effective storytelling in games, actually.


Aside, no love for Final Fantasy V? And you like Final Fantasy VIII? -shun- (I'm not serious, but Final Fantasy V is among my favorites, and I really don't care for Final Fantasy VIII. It could be that you haven't played Final Fantasy V, and if that's the case, I won't hold it against you... much.)
Not only do I like Final Fantasy VIII, but if I had to choose a favourite in the franchise, it would probably win out. An absolutely gorgeous soundtrack, the best art design in the series up until that point, a reasonably engaging story (even if some of the characters are a little flat in places) with real twists and pay-offs that feel earned, and just a very unique but inviting aesthetic throughout. It may not hit all of the high (and let's be honest, somewhat maudlin) emotional notes of VI, or have the "kewl/badazz" vibe of VII, or the classic appeal of IX, and yes the game's short development cycle shows in places (as in how some of the systems can be gamed to break the difficulty curve). But it's got effective storytelling, a nice overall package in terms of presentation, and maybe Uematsu's best score of all time.

Yeah, I played V, but you have to make the cut-off somewhere; I think when making a list to emphasize which aspects of the series you've liked the most, it's most effective to keep the list down to half the total titles at most (and I kind of collapse the direct sequels down into one conceptual title with the first in a sequence). In those terms, I find it's easy to throw XI, XIII, XIV and XV into the pile of games that don't make that cut (with the caveat that I've played these titles little to none each). Then I can let I-III go as well, because much as I recognize their importance in advancing RPG game design, its not really until IV that we see the emergence of an emphasis of truly involved storytelling as the space limitations in the memory regarding dialogue opened up. V is a fun game, but its definetly more light-hearted fair with matching presentation, and sandwiched between two games that really pushed the limits on emotionally resonant storytelling in games, it just becomes the obvious game to be dropped from the list to make it a little sharper. VIII, VI, IV, VII, XII, X, IX, if I had to put further emphasis on the hierarchy. Tactics is also pretty brilliant.

Edit: Of course, I should have prefaced all of that by saying that aside from tiny little bits here and there, I haven't played any game in the franchise since the original release of XII, back in 2006--nor did I play XI. I just know enough about each of the games I haven't played to know that they do not feel worth the time, particularly as regards the MMOs and the XIII sequence.
 
Last edited:

Dissidia

Premium Member
@DanteSC3 i did not like FFXII until I played the zodiac age remaster.

I did not like vanilla XII’s generic license board and when I was younger the story bored me and didn’t bold my attention. With the quality of life changes that the zodiac age offers I am able to really sink my teeth into the story and streamline the grind while also enjoying replaythroughs due to job/party composition.

Also, when I was younger the last FF experiences before XII was the really great output of squaresoft and the FF Ps1 trilogy, FFX and kingdom hearts.

By the time I played zodiac age I had dropped FF15 after 1 hour of playtime due to how utterly boring and aimless it was.

The FFXIII trilogy was made fun through the sequels but it never became something I loved, the story never felt very good especially in the first game.
 

DanteSC3

[14] Master
The thing that I don’t like about The Zodiac Age is how badly the balance is broken by the ability to take two jobs with each character. They already “rebalanced” (for lack of a better word) the game around the idea that each character would only be able to take one job in International Zodiac Job System (Japan-only), and the choices you made had a lot more weight behind them, because you had to pick which if the six jobs you wanted / didn’t want to use, and the Esper unlocks were truly exclusive. Being able to take two jobs undermines the entire system, because the licenses are shared between the boards, allowing you to shirk the rules and the limitations. The end result is more balanced and rounded out characters, like in the original game, where with only one job, you had hyper focused characters who were really good at their dedicated role, and it made you appreciate what each character brought to the table.

I do love the quality of life improvements, however. The reorchestrated soundtrack, the improved graphics, the much faster loading times, and if you’re lucky enough to be playing on Xbox One or Switch, being able to set up three gambit builds per character. The PC version lets you jump straight into New Game Minus, too, which is cool. PS4 version got shafted again and none of these features were added with an update.

@Rusted Blade I love FFVIII’s soundtrack, and I’m also a Triple Triad enthusiast, but that’s mostly where my love ends. Except maybe for Selphie and the Doomtrain, those things are a match made in heaven. In general, I didn’t care for the characters, the plot, the pacing, the ending (that is some next level out of space insanity), any of it. It just wasn’t relatable, and a replay years later didn’t go well either. It’s not as objectively bad as FFII or anything, but it doesn’t rank much higher in the grand scheme of things.