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[12] Conqueror
SC Controversial Topics and General Shitposting Thread
- Thread starter Mr Oak
- Start date
Project Bokuho
[14] Master
What NinjaGuy said.
Mr Oak
[07] Duelist
I think all the colours are from Soul Charge. Watching gameplay vids, everything looks a lot more tame for sure.
Macaulyn
[13] Hero
If we actually looked at all SC characters, there is a very small number of them whose sexuality is actually confirmed:So I've been having this 'discussion' with a guy on Twitter about Maxi's sexuality (even though it's still unconfirmed) and he's pretty triggered for no reason:
In the end he had pretty much run out of any credibility and then reverted to the whole insult parade. Surprise, surprise. Who would have thought the people getting so worked up over the idea of Maxi being gay would respond like this?
- Cervantes, who is Ivy's biological father, so, straight
- Sophitia, who has a husband and children, straight
- Voldo, who was obviously in a sexual master-slave relationship with Vercci, gay
- Kilik and Xianghua, who are obviously in love with each other, as well as Xiba's parents, both straight
- Li Long, who is married to Chie, straight
- Arthur, who is married, straight
- Algol, who is Arcturus' father, straight
- Pyrrha, who had a fiancé that ended up murdered by Tira, straight
Mr Oak
[07] Duelist
Pyrrah is gay for Tira, couldn't resist the crazy.
DanteSC3
[14] Master
Hilde also had kids between SoulCalibur IV and SoulCalibur V, straight for her too.
I would also argue Hwang and Seong Mi-na are a thing, would call them straight for each other. Ditto for Talim and Yun-seong. Also Raphael/Amy.
And we mustn't forget Le Bello! He has a thing going with Giselle behind the scenes.
I would also argue Hwang and Seong Mi-na are a thing, would call them straight for each other. Ditto for Talim and Yun-seong. Also Raphael/Amy.
And we mustn't forget Le Bello! He has a thing going with Giselle behind the scenes.
Ryuhza
[13] Hero
Yeah, I definitely enjoyed the straight gameplay video more than the announcement trailer.
Maybe I'm wired backwards, but that brand of flashiness just puts me to sleep.
Pyrrus
[14] Master
Maybe some are bi? Also Ivy being transgender would be cool as fuck!
Mr Oak
[07] Duelist
Tira and Pyrrah having a thing was fanfic gold IMO, I want more of that. I dunno about Ivy being Trans though haha, though I'd love to see people's reaction to that.
WuHT
Premium Moderator
I think the point is rather simple:
Why would you "change" some aspect of a character that was in the series since SC1? Despite it not being officially stated by the dev, there was no indicator to hint at Maxi's sexuality at all. Statistical probability would suggest he was a heterosexual so it is unfair to assume that the twitter user was just willy-nilly asserting that.
If the devs made a big deal with Maxi now being a vegan (with no indication of his dietary habits in SC1-5) the point remains why would the devs make it an issue only in SC6 ??
If there is a good answer (other than change for the sake of change) you can debate the merits of changing the character's canonical properties (ie sexuality, height, hair style.. ) and I suspect he won't have much of a leg to stand on in that argument. However you are also as guilty of missing his point.
DanteSC3
[14] Master
I personally see it as giving Maxi's character some more depth. It wasn't stated either way if he was gay or straight, but now that we know he's gay, and his partner was onboard the crew that Astaroth annihilated, his personal vengeance feels more justified. It doesn't actually matter if he was gay or straight, he could have had a female partner on the crew just as easily, and either case would have worked, but they went with he's gay. It doesn't ruin his character or anything, people just take things way too far sometimes.
Like, if we get the return of Hwang and Seong Mi-na, and maybe Yun-seong too, I hope there's a lot more to their stories, since they really lacked depth.
Like, if we get the return of Hwang and Seong Mi-na, and maybe Yun-seong too, I hope there's a lot more to their stories, since they really lacked depth.
Mr Oak
[07] Duelist
I'd prefer it if Maxi wasn't gay and avenging his lover, or straight and avenging his lover. I want him to avenge a fallen comrade and dear friend, I feel that sometimes they shoehorn a romantic interest just so they can have someone to kill off, or to have them be the subject of someone's revenge.
Friendship should be explored more IMO.
Friendship should be explored more IMO.
Project Bokuho
[14] Master
Agreed. Romance can be overrated sometimes.
SpellcraftQuill
[14] Master
So the Elvis Impersonator who might actually be gay (low key hope he has guyliner which actually makes sense for a pirate) has a thing against one of the two that actually dress in something arguably gay?
Love triangle where both the Leia and Han Solo counterparts want the Luke?
As an aside, I'm thinking since Maxi keeps dying in his endings, maybe way ahead in SCVII Li Long would come back? I dunno.
Love triangle where both the Leia and Han Solo counterparts want the Luke?
As an aside, I'm thinking since Maxi keeps dying in his endings, maybe way ahead in SCVII Li Long would come back? I dunno.
Mage
I'll make you submit!
If it is true then we don't know if they are "changing" anything because as I said in the original tweets we have no evidence of heterosexuality on Maxi's part, or any sexuality at all, as you yourself have stated, so I'm confused as to what your point was here when we both know that this person was not arguing historical accuracy or statistics but just simply being against homosexuality, as you can see on further replies on Twitter where he began calling me a 'little shit' who was 'faggot defending' among other things. It's most definitely fair to say he was just asserting it without any aforethought.
I take your point but would like you to consider that I was not necessarily referring only to his assumption of Maxi being heterosexual; rather his over-the-top reaction to him being possibly homosexual (obviously this is still unconfirmed so we are discussing this on the assumption that he is) which is a complete non-factor in reality and therefore it is a fairly silly thing to get so worked up over. That was my point.
Anyway, we can say with a fair amount of certainty that Maxi (if he is in fact homosexual) had no reason to reveal said characteristic if we are talking historical accuracy, in the respect that in those times people were killed for being homosexual. And if they want to make a story line regarding a lover of his, it's not impossible for it to be a male because I'm sure we all realise that homosexuals have existed for longer than just since the 20th century. Again, to link back to my original point, why is this possibility so hard to swallow for people?
I also have to ask how the devs are exactly making a big deal out of it when:
1. We don't even know if it's a legitimate claim yet (sorry Vergeben but I will admit you have been very accurate so far).
2. We don't know how the devs will handle it, so it's not like it's some sort of PC concept being shoved in your face because it's simply a rumour/leak.
3. Sexuality is significantly different from veganism so this point is pretty random?
Finally I have to address your final point which I agree with but for the final part I think you are mistaking his tweets for legitimate concerns in place of homophobia as you can see if you check out my Twitter replies where he begins throwing various insults at different people for questioning why it actually matters to him. I do not know if he has removed any of the tweets since I've subsequently had to block him.
WuHT
Premium Moderator
While he may have offended you, some of the points remain valid (as distasteful as it is to admit). Maybe it would be easier if you separated the person from the question.
My valid questions would be:
Why Maxi ? (why not introduce an entirely brand new character)
Why specifically his sexuality ? (is his partner a NPC , or another existing soul calibur character)
Why now? (was there hints in the past?)
I said "IF" to illustrate an analogy. You were not supposed to take it literally to the extreme.
It is an analogy and it was intended to be random (just like his sexuality which you earlier said is a "non-factor") and yet you completely miss the similarities.
No one is saying that sexuality and veganism are identical (I didnt want to offend anyone's intellect by having to point that out but here we are)
The thing that IS comparable is the fact that they are just canonical facts that have zero bearing on the overall gameplay (ie a non-factor).
Here is another analogy: Some Raphael players didn't like how he turned into a vampire in SC3 (obviously has a minor impact on his moveset). Is it no legitimate to ask why rather than assume everyone who questions this is a rabid vampire-hating bigot ?
He's behaving like an asshole (are you looking for validation and confirmation from me?) However I have similar questions and hopefully I presented them without name calling and acting rude.
Mage
I'll make you submit!
I think you're missing the whole point of my original discussion with this person:
Why is it that people must question this possibility when if it was the fact that he had a female partner that he lost then they wouldn't even bat an eyelid? This is quite clearly demonstrated in particular by this person with whom I had several exchanges on Twitter from the first tweet when he says 'please keep Maxi heterosexual' -- this is 100% not because of statistics, historical accuracy or a dissenting opinion regarding his story and background. It's straight up bigotry and I'm rather concerned that you seem to believe there's some degree of truth in this person's argument when in fact as I've already stated it's clear he just doesn't like homosexuality and there would be no discussion about this story aspect of Maxi if he was actually heterosexual.
My apologies about the whole list regarding the devs, I just strongly dislike people jumping to conclusions or making comments without any evidence supporting said conclusion, but I concede; an analogy it was and I misread it.
In regards to your comparison with Raphael's transformation into a vampire; I prefer to see it as a simple story element that Namco wanted to create, like Maxi's sexuality, but I still find this different to sexuality in that we knew Raphael was not a vampire prior to SCIII but we didn't know what Maxi's sexuality was, so linking back to our original discussion earlier: they have changed Raphael. It's a fact that was changed. But with Maxi they have simply clarified a situation by stating (hypothetically) that Maxi is homosexual, which effectively eliminates the request of 'plz keep maxi straight namco' as a legitimate idea or argument since we have never been told Maxi's sexuality in the past. You cannot retain or 'keep' such a characteristic if we did not know of it or it has never been clarified in the past. This is vastly different to the analogy of Raphael where someone might say 'plz keep raphael human namco' and it would be legitimate since we know that Raphael was previously a human before becoming a vampire.
Before I forget once again, why now, you might ask? I assume the most obvious answer is that Namco want to expand upon Maxi's story regarding his lover and group and never did to such a degree in the past, so now they have decided his lover was male and that subsequently makes him homosexual (or at least bi-sexual, but let's not go into that suggestion lol). I doubt they will have it in massive letters on his character page such as 'Sexuality: HOMOSEXUAL' but rather will confirm it indirectly through the story, stating that his lover is male.
Why Maxi? Why not? Would you prefer another character to be clarified as homosexual? What kind of question is this? They simply decided to make it so, it's a shame that people still have to see homosexual relationships in movies and games as a way to gain publicity for it (or that there MUST be some sort of ulterior motive) instead of viewing it as a normal relationship like heterosexuals.
Finally, why his sexuality? I must ask the same of you, why not? I feel like people are blowing it way out of proportion when it's just a simple story decision Namco made.
WuHT
Premium Moderator
Thats your point you wanted to discuss with him. I clearly said you are missing HIS points (hence why I poisted). I'm not saying he is correct in all his posts, but I'm pointing out that there are things you didn't address. You can't have a debate where everyone only addresses your point and in turn you dismiss whatever someone else wants to bring up.
YThose were never my positions and it appears you are using me as a strawman to attack this other person. Objectively we both raise the point "why Maxi?". We just so happen to have the same question (which arose from different positions). If you want to debate him over his bigotry do it over twitter and not here please.
Actually yes!
Having that sort of story line could make a new character much more interesting and less generic. IMO all existing SC characters can draw upon the lore over several versions of soul calibur so they are generally more well-rounded and have a stronger backstory. New characters generally don't have this luxury.
Lol. You know its a lot harder to answer your question of why not? vs why?
If I had to answer this (in good faith) I'd suggest that sexuality in particular implies some sort of relationship and you're left wondering who the partner is and why they didn't show up earlier. Any relationship-based attribute would probably lead to similar questions (ie: Voldo always had a loyal servant / master relationship with Vercci which was brought up immediately in SB, rather than it being shoehorned as a new fact in SC6). Another example was they brought up that Mitsurugi's plot involved the appearance of a "brother" early in SC5's story (which they dropped) and I was mildly annoyed because it was pretty contrived at the time
So its not specifically sexuality, but a new "convenient" relationship that concerns me.
damn-I-Suck
[12] Conqueror
There was a recent video posted of some new gameplay. It seems that one of nightmare's costumes is missing the helmet, and what do you know, Siegfried is underneath the helmet... sigh
This is not a confirmation per se, but it's not looking good for siegfried being a distinct character from Nightmare at this point.
Thankfully I have become attached to a few different move sets over the series but losing my #1 favorite would be a blow indeed.
DanteSC3
[14] Master
Nightmare in SoulCalibur I-II was Siegfried's body being possessed by Soul Edge. Of course his head is under the helmet when the armor is broken.
It wouldn't make sense for it to be any other way. This does not, in any way, confirm or deconfirm that Siegfried will also be on the roster. If armor break was in SoulCalibur I-II, and you broke Nightmare's helmet, then Siegfried's head would have been revealed in those games as well. Siegfried was also on the roster of SoulCalibur I, but he was not on the roster of SoulCalibur II, only being a 3p costume for Nightmare. It really could go either way.
If the rumor/leak is true, and the game, while primarily being set in SoulCalibur I, also contains all or some of the stories of SoulBlade, SoulCalibur II, and SoulCalibur III, then Siegfried has a role to play as himself, not Nightmare, in both SoulBlade and SoulCalibur III. And beyond storyline reasons, Nightmare is an aggressive style while Siegfried is a tactical style. They may use the same weapon, but they play very differently, much like Sophitia and Cassandra.