franman
[13] Hero
Defense?
Just wondering, why do we have different overall numbers in certain categories. For example Wing_Zero you gave punishment out of 3, but for offence you, itz out of 5. Why can't they all be out of the same number?
SC4 Character Ranking List?
- Thread starter wing_zero
- Start date
Just wondering, why do we have different overall numbers in certain categories. For example Wing_Zero you gave punishment out of 3, but for offence you, itz out of 5. Why can't they all be out of the same number?
Ceirnian
[11] Champion
HILDE TIME
Punishment: 2/3
Offense: 5/5
Anti-step: 4/5
Post GI: 2/3
Spacing: 5/5
Keepout/panic: 4/4
Wakeup 1/3
Damage 4/5
Ro ability: 10/5
MM MMMMM
[edit] Oh wait if Kiliks numbers are so high I should probably up some of those... nah good enough for now.
Punishment: 2/3
Offense: 5/5
Anti-step: 4/5
Post GI: 2/3
Spacing: 5/5
Keepout/panic: 4/4
Wakeup 1/3
Damage 4/5
Ro ability: 10/5
MM MMMMM
[edit] Oh wait if Kiliks numbers are so high I should probably up some of those... nah good enough for now.
Suirad
[10] Knight
I feel like trying my hand at this too.
Sophie:
Punishment: 3/3
Standing:
AA i12 20 dmg +4
236B(:)(4) i14 30-55 dmg KND One of the best high speed punishers in the game
66K 236236B i15 56 KND
236236B(:)(4) i15(but usually a few frames slower) 50-80dmg KND(RO)
3B 236236B i20 68 dmg KND
Crouching:
FC A i13 10dmg +4
236B
66K
236236B
Sophie can get in a lot of damage at low impact frames, especially with quick reaction and good execution. The stabs also notably have very good range and 236236B can combo to itself on the block of some moves making them almost too dangerous to use. She can't punish speeds quite as fast as some, but over all I would say her punish game is about as strong as it gets.
Offense: 3.5/5
Sophie has fast pokes with good frames to thwart retalition(BB, 6AB, 44K...really much of her movelist), typically good frames on block and very safe soul guage damagers (4B+K, 66B, 66A+B, and 22A which tracks step). Among her UBs are some of the better ones around even after nerfing(WR [A+B] is useable and 11A[A] even moreso) and her command throw has the coveted small break window. A+B aGI and agresssive TC/TJ/TS(236AA/236236AA, 9K/9B, 22A, B+K) moves round out her ability to keep pressure. Sophies lows are fairly weak however in terms of recovery and her grab goes nowhere. This causes problems when nearly every attack in her move list with + frames on hit leaves her out of grab range regardless of where she started(exception 4B). Her inability to force mix-up situations in this manner might arguably make her less than 3.5 in this category.
Anti-step: 3/5
2A covers right strongly and left weakly while her grabs track both ways in very close. AA is fast and tracks both ways out to about close-mid range with 3K similar though not tracking completely to her left. At mid range there are problems, 4A, 236AA, 66A, 3A, 236236AA are all not quite fast enough to beat step guard and have mediocre risk/reward ratios, albeit not terrible. 3A is serviceable at mid-long attacking of step as can be said of 66A at long where distances after block and the nature of step at those ranges changes, but still nothing to write home about (maybe speed).
Post GI: 2.5/3
3B 236236B 68 guaranteed
66B 236236B 76 if they try to re-GI
It's braindead and the damage is fairly high, but some people get better.
Spacing: 4/5
This was the category I least understood the criteria for, but I'll go with that I think it is.
Sophie can muster plenty of moves (BB, 4A, 6B, 3A, 4B...) that are reasonably quick with good range which can be used to to to increase, decrease or maintain distance safely while attacking. Didnt give her full points because she is ot range by some characters in the ability to do this.
Keepout/panic: 3.5/4
Though a detriment to her offense, sophie's pushback on block is strong, especially when taken in conjuction with her safety. 66B and WS K are both -2 with significant push back. BB, 4B+K -6 and out of astas grab range(thus all of them). There are plenty more with similarly good properties. As for panic B+K can work great for denial having both a TJ and a TS and her generally good evasive moves as mentioned in offense allow for attacking at disadvantge. Another point to note is that since she is one of the games faster characters, the choice to interrupt at disadvantage is frequently an option. She has decent moves for CH also (6AB, 44K, 2BB).
Wakeup 1/3
Sophie's tech traps hurt quite a bit, but her ability to get you into them is so-so and she can't provide convincing reason for you to stand into them usually. On a normal knockdown all but the lowest damage attacks cant track ground roll both ways and the attack speeds are disparate for each direction to boot. Should opponent stand into sophies close rnage mix-up then prospects are better, but the convincing reason to do so is once again absent.
Damage 4/5
Sophie puts out in the damage department, getting 50+ damage for all sorts of things at good speeds as well as 60s and 70s for launchers and combos. With the ability to do her JFs this can be increased even further. CH 66B+K and 236236B can get up to very high damages (89 and 100+ respectively) and will land as such from time to time. Her grab damage is not bad either with the 55 dmg command grab, possible 2nd hit of B+G and 70 dmg right side throw. Her other throws are bad though (40-) and the lows you can actually hit with (2K, 1K, B2, maybe 11A) are underwhelming by far.
RO ability: 2.5/5
33B (BT B+K) ROs for a very long distance behind her if you can land it, but it can be hard at times due to the moves speed and range. Though plenty of decent speed RO possibilities exist for interrupting(CH 6B, 4B+K, 236K) and even step trackers(22A, CH 4AB), she has little answer to a concerted step guard effort with no ducking. She also cant control opponents ring postition on block or on the ground very well making it difficult even pushing opponent to the rings edge.
/edit/ hmm ended up writing a lot. Anyway I'm by no means an expert so give me an earful. That adds to 27/38 I counted
Sophie:
Punishment: 3/3
Standing:
AA i12 20 dmg +4
236B(:)(4) i14 30-55 dmg KND One of the best high speed punishers in the game
66K 236236B i15 56 KND
236236B(:)(4) i15(but usually a few frames slower) 50-80dmg KND(RO)
3B 236236B i20 68 dmg KND
Crouching:
FC A i13 10dmg +4
236B
66K
236236B
Sophie can get in a lot of damage at low impact frames, especially with quick reaction and good execution. The stabs also notably have very good range and 236236B can combo to itself on the block of some moves making them almost too dangerous to use. She can't punish speeds quite as fast as some, but over all I would say her punish game is about as strong as it gets.
Offense: 3.5/5
Sophie has fast pokes with good frames to thwart retalition(BB, 6AB, 44K...really much of her movelist), typically good frames on block and very safe soul guage damagers (4B+K, 66B, 66A+B, and 22A which tracks step). Among her UBs are some of the better ones around even after nerfing(WR [A+B] is useable and 11A[A] even moreso) and her command throw has the coveted small break window. A+B aGI and agresssive TC/TJ/TS(236AA/236236AA, 9K/9B, 22A, B+K) moves round out her ability to keep pressure. Sophies lows are fairly weak however in terms of recovery and her grab goes nowhere. This causes problems when nearly every attack in her move list with + frames on hit leaves her out of grab range regardless of where she started(exception 4B). Her inability to force mix-up situations in this manner might arguably make her less than 3.5 in this category.
Anti-step: 3/5
2A covers right strongly and left weakly while her grabs track both ways in very close. AA is fast and tracks both ways out to about close-mid range with 3K similar though not tracking completely to her left. At mid range there are problems, 4A, 236AA, 66A, 3A, 236236AA are all not quite fast enough to beat step guard and have mediocre risk/reward ratios, albeit not terrible. 3A is serviceable at mid-long attacking of step as can be said of 66A at long where distances after block and the nature of step at those ranges changes, but still nothing to write home about (maybe speed).
Post GI: 2.5/3
3B 236236B 68 guaranteed
66B 236236B 76 if they try to re-GI
It's braindead and the damage is fairly high, but some people get better.
Spacing: 4/5
This was the category I least understood the criteria for, but I'll go with that I think it is.
Sophie can muster plenty of moves (BB, 4A, 6B, 3A, 4B...) that are reasonably quick with good range which can be used to to to increase, decrease or maintain distance safely while attacking. Didnt give her full points because she is ot range by some characters in the ability to do this.
Keepout/panic: 3.5/4
Though a detriment to her offense, sophie's pushback on block is strong, especially when taken in conjuction with her safety. 66B and WS K are both -2 with significant push back. BB, 4B+K -6 and out of astas grab range(thus all of them). There are plenty more with similarly good properties. As for panic B+K can work great for denial having both a TJ and a TS and her generally good evasive moves as mentioned in offense allow for attacking at disadvantge. Another point to note is that since she is one of the games faster characters, the choice to interrupt at disadvantage is frequently an option. She has decent moves for CH also (6AB, 44K, 2BB).
Wakeup 1/3
Sophie's tech traps hurt quite a bit, but her ability to get you into them is so-so and she can't provide convincing reason for you to stand into them usually. On a normal knockdown all but the lowest damage attacks cant track ground roll both ways and the attack speeds are disparate for each direction to boot. Should opponent stand into sophies close rnage mix-up then prospects are better, but the convincing reason to do so is once again absent.
Damage 4/5
Sophie puts out in the damage department, getting 50+ damage for all sorts of things at good speeds as well as 60s and 70s for launchers and combos. With the ability to do her JFs this can be increased even further. CH 66B+K and 236236B can get up to very high damages (89 and 100+ respectively) and will land as such from time to time. Her grab damage is not bad either with the 55 dmg command grab, possible 2nd hit of B+G and 70 dmg right side throw. Her other throws are bad though (40-) and the lows you can actually hit with (2K, 1K, B2, maybe 11A) are underwhelming by far.
RO ability: 2.5/5
33B (BT B+K) ROs for a very long distance behind her if you can land it, but it can be hard at times due to the moves speed and range. Though plenty of decent speed RO possibilities exist for interrupting(CH 6B, 4B+K, 236K) and even step trackers(22A, CH 4AB), she has little answer to a concerted step guard effort with no ducking. She also cant control opponents ring postition on block or on the ground very well making it difficult even pushing opponent to the rings edge.
/edit/ hmm ended up writing a lot. Anyway I'm by no means an expert so give me an earful. That adds to 27/38 I counted
VortexR18
[08] Mercenary
Algol
Punishment: 999/3
Offense: 999/5
Anti-step: 999/5
Post GI: 999/3
Spacing: 999/5
Keepout/panic: 999/4
Wakeup 999/3
Damage 999/5
Ro ability: 999/5
Bow to Algol
jk
Punishment: 999/3
Offense: 999/5
Anti-step: 999/5
Post GI: 999/3
Spacing: 999/5
Keepout/panic: 999/4
Wakeup 999/3
Damage 999/5
Ro ability: 999/5
Bow to Algol
jk
Something-Unique
[10] Knight
Edit:
I changed my mind. I no longer want to take part in this thread after reading through it. For some reason I don't think this one will go down well just based off of reading some things in here already.
General Notes: For what it's worth.
There are to many categories. Things like Ring Out and Critical Finish abilities should be factored into offense. Also a wakeup category isn't a sensible category in itself for a game like SC. Again there are to many categories.
Wing-Zero this is what I finished before I read throught the whole thread:
Kilik:
Punishment: 2/3
Standing:
i13-Frames 6AA +0-Frames (20-Damage)
i14-Frames aB +6-Frames (24-Damage)
i18-Frames 3kB Knockdown (35-Damage)
i20-Frames A+B -Stun (44-52-Damage) (72-80-Damage)
Crouching:
i14-Frames WSK -Knockdown (27-Damage)
i17-Frames FC 3B +3-Frames (26-Damage)
i21-Frames WSB -Stun (50-54-Damage) (50- Off Axis 66B, 66B) (54- On Axis 66B AT)
Kilik's punishment is both insane and pathetic. The insane part comes from anything post -20-Frames because of A+B. The pathetic part comes from his low damage for punishment from anything lower than -20-Frames. His 3kB is i18-Frames at 35-Damage but the majority of the moves in the game will either range up to -17-Frames or end up over -20-Frames so there are very few occasions in which 3kB will punish. So that leaves Kilik with his next best option i14-Frames aB at 24-Damage. What may or may not move him from 1.5/3 in punishment to 2/3 in punishment is the added ability to punish a number of moves in the game that are safe from range or pushback vs. other characters. His aB from standing will catch these moves and his FC3B will catch the ones from crouch. Because of this its possible that he can move up to a 2/3.
Offense: 3/5
There is no possible way for Kilik to be at a 5/5 relative to other characters in this game. A 2.5/5 or 3/5 sounds reasonable
Post GI: 3/3
Best Post GI options in the game. i20-Frames A+B leads to 72-80-Damage. To compliment that his i17-Frames FOTD mixup is insane. The A+G version leads to 80-Damage + Rings out right and the B+G version leads to 50-Damage + Rings out left.
Keep out/Panic: 3/4
He would be one of the highest but then there is characters like Algol and Astaroth.
I changed my mind. I no longer want to take part in this thread after reading through it. For some reason I don't think this one will go down well just based off of reading some things in here already.
General Notes: For what it's worth.
There are to many categories. Things like Ring Out and Critical Finish abilities should be factored into offense. Also a wakeup category isn't a sensible category in itself for a game like SC. Again there are to many categories.
Wing-Zero this is what I finished before I read throught the whole thread:
Kilik:
Punishment: 2/3
Standing:
i13-Frames 6AA +0-Frames (20-Damage)
i14-Frames aB +6-Frames (24-Damage)
i18-Frames 3kB Knockdown (35-Damage)
i20-Frames A+B -Stun (44-52-Damage) (72-80-Damage)
Crouching:
i14-Frames WSK -Knockdown (27-Damage)
i17-Frames FC 3B +3-Frames (26-Damage)
i21-Frames WSB -Stun (50-54-Damage) (50- Off Axis 66B, 66B) (54- On Axis 66B AT)
Kilik's punishment is both insane and pathetic. The insane part comes from anything post -20-Frames because of A+B. The pathetic part comes from his low damage for punishment from anything lower than -20-Frames. His 3kB is i18-Frames at 35-Damage but the majority of the moves in the game will either range up to -17-Frames or end up over -20-Frames so there are very few occasions in which 3kB will punish. So that leaves Kilik with his next best option i14-Frames aB at 24-Damage. What may or may not move him from 1.5/3 in punishment to 2/3 in punishment is the added ability to punish a number of moves in the game that are safe from range or pushback vs. other characters. His aB from standing will catch these moves and his FC3B will catch the ones from crouch. Because of this its possible that he can move up to a 2/3.
Offense: 3/5
There is no possible way for Kilik to be at a 5/5 relative to other characters in this game. A 2.5/5 or 3/5 sounds reasonable
Post GI: 3/3
Best Post GI options in the game. i20-Frames A+B leads to 72-80-Damage. To compliment that his i17-Frames FOTD mixup is insane. The A+G version leads to 80-Damage + Rings out right and the B+G version leads to 50-Damage + Rings out left.
Keep out/Panic: 3/4
He would be one of the highest but then there is characters like Algol and Astaroth.
BeefyLoveLord
[09] Warrior
Astas Gauge game went as a consistent threat on the CF patch. 4A breaking in 8 coupled with the increased damage made giving them a red bar come the end of 2-3 was pretty regular if you played to space.
Now its just not enough though. He still has 33B and 3A+B that do good gauge and have good safety, but really you should just be going for zeh throwins.