SC4 Character Ranking List?

Current categories:

Punishment: 3/3
Offense: 5/5
Post-GI:3/3
Whiff Punishing/Spacing: 5/5
Keepout/Panic: 4/4
Wakeup: 3/3
Damage: 5/5

Added categories:

Anti-step: 3/3
RO Ability: 5/5

I feel that SG damage should be considered part of the offense category because even though a character may not have great mixups (which would result in a low offense score), if they are good at damaging the SG gauge this would bring up their total offense score (i.e. Mina)

I'm going to post up an early writeup on Kilik shortly. This should give you guys a better idea of what I'm looking for.
 
I do think this type of list can show a bias rating at first, but I do think players can become creative and change the score of the charactor... I play Zas and Cerv allot I know my style will give a different rating then other, there is just many different sytles. I am not a great player but hold my own, but I can get creative with some punishment moves (still learning). Example, My Zas moves against a high I will try go with the 3B to 6B+K to B+K and punish well with that, but some wont use that a give a different rating.
I like to see players add to lists and not just give a personally rating based on there own style, better to decrease or increase the list do to moves thru experiances and examples.
 
The entire point of the list is NOT to show bias. Even if a character has low ratings in every category, it doesn't mean they cannot win or be played well, you remove the player and just list their arbitrary attributes as a base for creating a rank.

You can't take intangibles like an opponents lack of knowledge, obscurity, difficulty of moves or just plain player ability into account.

A ranking should suggest something like: 'this is what the characrers strengths and weaknesses are, playing this character means you will have to/not have put in X amount of work to be successful with them, in comparison to the other cast members'

cha cha
 
I think SG Damage and Offense should definately be separate

If it's not, then it causes deceptive ratings.

Mina's ability to Soul Crush may boost her offense, to where someone thinks its meaning is she has great offense, and conversly could lower a characters offense rating where it shouldn't.

It also would affect other areas of your system without its own. Panic becomes a big part whenever that soul gauge is blinking red halfway through the first round. Post-GI gains more options for soul crushing at times, Anti-step becomes a bit more important depending on who you're playing.

I'd also like to know by what standards the ratings are...like, are we judging RO ability reletive to say, Hilde? Maybe it was discussed and I overlooked it, or I don't understand something.
 
if ringout/offense is out of 10...and we're gaging against hilde...everyone automatically gets a 1.
 
NinjaKanggaroo said:
I think SG Damage and Offense should definately be separate

If it's not, then it causes deceptive ratings.

Mina's ability to Soul Crush may boost her offense, to where someone thinks its meaning is she has great offense, and conversly could lower a characters offense rating where it shouldn't.

It also would affect other areas of your system without its own. Panic becomes a big part whenever that soul gauge is blinking red halfway through the first round. Post-GI gains more options for soul crushing at times, Anti-step becomes a bit more important depending on who you're playing.

I'd also like to know by what standards the ratings are...like, are we judging RO ability reletive to say, Hilde? Maybe it was discussed and I overlooked it, or I don't understand something.
Click to expand...

Don't forget with these scores there will be a detailed explanation as to WHY the scores will be as they are. If Mina has a decent offense score because of her SG damage, then there will be a writeup as to why.

Also, characters are not scored in relation to other characters; this is based on individual character ability only.
 
KingAce said:
Surely you jest, that sounds like Nightmare's SG dmg.
His wakeup is quite good IMO, nothing lower than a 8/10.
Click to expand...

Asta's soul gauge damage is HORRIBLE. Nightmare's is also horrible, but still probably a better than Asta's. Asta will not CF a good player unless asta gets A LOT of GIs.


wing zero: anti step should be worth 5 points. it is extremely extremely important
 
Tiamat said:
Asta's soul gauge damage is HORRIBLE. Nightmare's is also horrible, but still probably a better than Asta's. Asta will not CF a good player unless asta gets A LOT of GIs.


wing zero: anti step should be worth 5 points. it is extremely extremely important
Click to expand...

I'll try it out and see how it goes.
 
Here is a sample of what I'm trying to achieve :

Kilik

Punishment: 2/3
Standing
-13: 6AA (24 dmg, neutral frames on hit), 46B (10 dmg)
-14: aB (24 dmg, +6), 1K (TJ + 14 dmg) , 2K (12 dmg)
-15: 66B (18 dmg)
-17: 3kB (35 dmg + KND), throw
-20: A+B (52 dmg + combo)
-22: 22_88B: (launcher)

FC
-14: wsK (30 dmg + KND)
-15: FC K, RC 66B
-17: FC 3B (26 dmg, +3)
-21: wsB (combo starter)

Kilik's punishment options are extremely useful and consistent. For a i13 punisher 46B is an extremely versatile, allowing him to consistently punish moves at certain ranges that a lot of other characters can't (X's 3B, wsK). If you can master buffering aB, then you have a long range i14 punisher that grants +6 on hit. His 3kB and A+B are heavy duty punishers that make opponents think twice about doing certain moves (Mitsu's 2K,B ,Setsuka's bA, Yoshi's 3A,B, Sieg's RSH B). His wsK and FC 3B are top notch WS punishers. Overall, he is just rock solid in punishment.

Offense: 5/5

Kilik has strong mixups and pokes all around. For standing mixups he has 2A, 2K, 1/3A+B (KND + tech trap) which are very annoying lows. For long range Kilik has 11A, 2A+K, MO A. For people who like to duck, he has 66B, 22_88A, 66K, 4A+B, 3B, 1K, wsB. Kilik has two of the best command throws in the game with FOTD A/B; these throws RO like nobody's business, do great damage, and depending on the situation (wall) Kilik can get even more damage or go for extremely damaging tech. Kilik also has the best FC mixup in the game with MO throws/wsB. Due to 66B, 33A, wsB, wsA, 2A+K and 4B being relatively safe with pushback, Kilik's no slouch when damaging the SG gauge. More often than not, the opponent finds himself in the red in the 2nd round...

Anti-Step: 5/5

Kilik is simply retarded in this department. 2A, 22_88A, 66A, 44A, A+K, wsA, 1A shut down step consistently. aB, 66B, 4B, 11A discourage backsteppers. Moreover, Kilik can delay wsB to realign himself with the opponent. Did I mention that 4A+B follows the opponent? With all these options, what more do you need?

Post-GI: 3/3

Kilik's A+B is guaranteed after a GI, which can be anywhere from 70-90 dmg. iFOTD is also guaranteed after a successful GI, which adds yet another layer to his GI game. 4A+B is great reGI bait, and leads to 75-80 dmg.

Spacing: 5/5


KeepOut/Panic: 4/4

This is one of his strongest areas. You have 66B, wsA, wsB, 4B, and 3kB, aB, 2B, 66A for effective keepout. For when they actually do get in? 46B CH, 6AAA CH, 1K, 66K (this move TC and TJs at THE SAME TIME, gay) 66B CH, 4B+K, wsB, BP A evade, MO hop, and BP/MO aGI. Even though these options are strong, they all pale in comparistion to Asura. Asura is simply the best panic move in the game: it parries mids, jumps through lows and throws, TCs at odd times, tracks at odd times, does massive damage (even MORE damage if it's ASURA), is NC, AND it impregnated TagYouRPregant at one point in time :). It is very hard to mixup good Kilik players, as they almost always have an option to get out of almost anything you do.

Wakeup: 1.5/3

Damage: 4/5

RO Ability: 3/5

Total Score:
 
That Kilik shit is listed waaay too high.
Punishment is 3/3?

No.
If he can't punish -10~-12 moves, his i13 punish doesn't even leave him at + (one does only 1/24th of the lifebar), and his i14~i16 doesn't even KD. Your i17 "Heavy Duty Punish" KD's for 35 damage. Heavy Duty. Lol. No.
His ws punish is stronger, but the only one that really matters is WS K, and the range on that is shorter than his 6a range.

1/3 for Punishment.

Offense at 5/5...
Anti Step at 5/5...

You're kidding. You must be.
I know this is just an example, but all this is a bit too high.
How much damage you can get punished for is just as important as how strong the move is.
 
KDZaster said:
That Kilik shit is listed waaay too high.
Punishment is 3/3?

No.
If he can't punish -10~-12 moves, his i13 punish doesn't even leave him at + (one does only 1/24th of the lifebar), and his i14~i16 doesn't even KD. Your i17 "Heavy Duty Punish" KD's for 35 damage. Heavy Duty. Lol. No.
His ws punish is stronger, but the only one that really matters is WS K, and the range on that is shorter than his 6a range.

1/3 for Punishment.

Offense at 5/5...
Anti Step at 5/5...

You're kidding. You must be.
I know this is just an example, but all this is a bit too high.
How much damage you can get punished for is just as important as how strong the move is.
Click to expand...

In a game where not everyone can punish everything, consistency is just as important as damage.

the score is not concrete yet, tho. be patient...
 
I remember when I did one of these back at CF.com
lol.
Hopefully it'll not suck like the last one and people actually know what it is they're about.
These are always fun tho.
^_^
 
I think wakeup should be weighted more points personally. It is that important, considering the amount of knd moves in the game. For some characters it's their strength
 
wing_zero said:
Post-GI: 3/3

Kilik's A+B is guaranteed after a GI, which can be anywhere from 70-90 dmg. iFOTD is also guaranteed after a successful GI, which adds yet another layer to his GI game. 4A+B is great reGI bait, and leads to 75-80 dmg.
Click to expand...

To clarify, A+B is unblockable after a GI but not guaranteed because they can re-GI it. I completely agree with giving him max score in this area.

hotnikkelz: I agree, characters like Rock and Nightmare are flat out done for if they don't apply their strong okizeme. That's their game winning situation where they can maintain pressure and possibly kill the opponent with a RO/couple correct guesses.
 
Tiamat said:
Asta's soul gauge damage is HORRIBLE. Nightmare's is also horrible, but still probably a better than Asta's. Asta will not CF a good player unless asta gets A LOT of GIs.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say that it's horrible, but it sure isn't good as I had hope for him to be. I was all about the SG damage at first, but I just feel that for every time that I am trying to attack the SG, I could have gotten in more grab attempts. I just feel that Asta is effective without going for the CF.
 
Well GK, it's horrible compared to the rest of the cast i think. It's all relative but he's definitely in the lowest class for soul gauge damage. And yes, he's effective regardless, that's for sure.

Kilik's post GI game is solid as hell.

I can put up stuff for the characters i play if anyone is interested. And you guys can allocate the scores based on that.
 
and obviously like any other rankings we shall disregard throw range/throw wake up since it doesn't guaranteed damage so it's useless in any rankings

-LAU
 
Well in my opinion, being "average" at CF is "horrible" because ever since the patch, the majority of the characters are never gonna be landing CFs on good players unless they get a lot of GIs. I just have a low opinion of CF in general.
 
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