SC6 Tier list for Season 2

Zekiel

[03] Disciple
Heaven's guard is beatable, but the risk-reward for that move is so lopsided, it's not even funny. It beating every attack except delayed ones and guaranteeing a hit afterwards is stupid. Even more so when most characters can't do any guaranteed hits after a RI. If you do nothing, Maxi gets to continue pressuring you with stance mixups. If he interrupts your delayed move with attack buttons, you suffer a lot of damage because his counter hits are strong and you're dead if your back is against the edge. Just the existence of that damn move alone makes you want to hesitate attacking him. Most of the time, Maxi will have enough meter to do it because getting meter isn't difficult and he can easily create setups for it. He gets half of the meter he spent to RI back after lethal hitting. The fact that he can easily beat Soul Charge activations as well makes it even more ridiculous. The biggest problem is that the aGI window is absurdly wide just like Neutral Guard while also beating almost everything. It's simply overpowered.

His Seven Stars Severance buffs aren't nearly as ridiculous as Heaven's guard, but are also good buffs that Maxi was blessed with even though they weren't necessary. He was a strong character from the beginning. In season 1, some attacks like 2K beat both of his aGI's, but Maxi could beat that by attacking instead of aGI'ing. He always had the options to beat everything, now he has one more option in Heaven's guard that is even less risky. He already had strong counter hits, mixups you have to respect, low-risk moves with high reward like 6A and 3B, a strong soul charge, a good CE and the best mid in the game (6A+B). He might have been A tier in season 1, but he's easily S tier now. His 2A+B is also annoying to block when there is online lag. No, Maxi doesn't really suffer from people figuring him out because as I said, he has options to deal with everything so he will always be a threat. The character is stupid. And I'm not copying anyone's opinions or tier lists.
In season 1 maxi wasn't A tier. He was lower. Average at best.

Most of his moves like 1B, NG, 44AB, RC AA , LO K etc didn't work because of too much pushback, too slow, bad tracking etc. NG could easily be re-gi'd because of no break attack. Looping with maxi was bad because of all these inconsistent behaviors

The only thing that was better for maxi in Season 1 was 88A was safe on block and had major pushback.

Like marginal said you're overselling HG. HG is a double edged sword. Maxi loses more meter then he gains. If he's successful x2 he gains 50%. If he fails x2 he loses a bar.

And the only reliable damage after HG is NG A 6A+B for 62. Everything else takes over a meter. HG is easy to read because maxi players use it to protect themselves when he's negative on block in stance. The only time a maxi player uses it when he's plus is to read a SC. And if he fails to read that he just wasted more meter.

You can whiff punish a failed NG/HG. That's another reason why it's risky. With a CE it's really easy. HG also isn't hard to confirm. The flash is literally you're indicator to attack once it's over.

NG A is horrible on hit and block. And the others moves come out too slow for you to say him continuing to attack is a problem. It's not... If you know Maxi's frame data.

Combine this with that fact that moves like 1KA 1AB 1B can still be dealt with by fast moving characters like ivy Sophie, hilde Tira etc shows that his stance game is still inconsistent in frames.

Characters can still backstep Maxi's stances and evade his moves from POINT BLANK range . It's not as bad as season 1 but it's still there.

2K was a good option in s1 and still is a good option in s2 despite HG. And no 2K beat out alot of Maxi's moves on block when he has negative frames transitioning into another stance.

All this said marginal is correct. Maxi is A tier not S. If they fix his stance problems and give him one or two more tools he might become S. Learn the match up more. Maxi's game plan hasn't changed since s1. You just have to look out for HG. That's it.
 

SilentWall

[10] Knight
I think it is not about tier of Maxi. It is about the fun factor of Anti-Maxi.
Now you only can do is to watch Maxi's dance and shoot in maxi's unsafe windows or just wait until he is out of meter. It is not the common style of Soul Calibur we used to play. And it is not fun.
Maxi's Heaven's Guard RI (HG RI) is not RI, but it is an Auto-RI that can RI everything and get free big damage. It is ridiculous that it also can punish opponent's SC with guaranteed damage.
And, Maxi's HG RI whiff is much safer than the normal RI whiff because HG-RI has fast follow ups and most of time opponent can't punish the whiff by reaction.
Also, HG-RI can make Maxi almost all unsafe moves safe including his low moves (and launcher?).

Playing Anti-Maxi in season 2 is weird and it doesn't feel like playing Soul Calibur.

My suggestion on next patches:
To change Maxi's Heaven's Guard RI to become a GI and keep the meter consumption. Because it is still fair for Maxi to have a safe auto-GI (for all) confirmable moves with meter consumption.
So every GB moves, UB moves and SC can break it that will make more sense.
 

Marginal

Chikara Sashimi
I think it is not about tier of Maxi. It is about the fun factor of Anti-Maxi.
Now you only can do is to watch Maxi's dance and shoot in maxi's unsafe windows or just wait until he is out of meter. It is not the common style of Soul Calibur we used to play. And it is not fun.
Maxi's Heaven's Guard RI (HG RI) is not RI, but it is an Auto-RI that can RI everything and get free big damage. It is ridiculous that it also can punish opponent's SC with guaranteed damage.
And, Maxi's HG RI whiff is much safer than the normal RI whiff because HG-RI has fast follow ups and most of time opponent can't punish the whiff by reaction.
Also, HG-RI can make Maxi almost all unsafe moves safe including his low moves (and launcher?).

Playing Anti-Maxi in season 2 is weird and it doesn't feel like playing Soul Calibur.

My suggestion on next patches:
To change Maxi's Heaven's Guard RI to become a GI and keep the meter consumption. Because it is still fair for Maxi to have a safe auto-GI (for all) confirmable moves with meter consumption.
So every GB moves, UB moves and SC can break it that will make more sense.
Maxi already has that exact move in neutral guard though. What's the meter burn accomplish? Extending a weak aGI to catch lows?

Heaven's guard exists to encourage stance use. If sc blows him back, he has less reason to use stances.
 
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Apoc Revolution

[10] Knight
In season 1 maxi wasn't A tier. He was lower. Average at best.

Most of his moves like 1B, NG, 44AB, RC AA , LO K etc didn't work because of too much pushback, too slow, bad tracking etc. NG could easily be re-gi'd because of no break attack. Looping with maxi was bad because of all these inconsistent behaviors

The only thing that was better for maxi in Season 1 was 88A was safe on block and had major pushback.

Like marginal said you're overselling HG. HG is a double edged sword. Maxi loses more meter then he gains. If he's successful x2 he gains 50%. If he fails x2 he loses a bar.

And the only reliable damage after HG is NG A 6A+B for 62. Everything else takes over a meter. HG is easy to read because maxi players use it to protect themselves when he's negative on block in stance. The only time a maxi player uses it when he's plus is to read a SC. And if he fails to read that he just wasted more meter.

You can whiff punish a failed NG/HG. That's another reason why it's risky. With a CE it's really easy. HG also isn't hard to confirm. The flash is literally you're indicator to attack once it's over.

NG A is horrible on hit and block. And the others moves come out too slow for you to say him continuing to attack is a problem. It's not... If you know Maxi's frame data.

Combine this with that fact that moves like 1KA 1AB 1B can still be dealt with by fast moving characters like ivy Sophie, hilde Tira etc shows that his stance game is still inconsistent in frames.

Characters can still backstep Maxi's stances and evade his moves from POINT BLANK range . It's not as bad as season 1 but it's still there.

2K was a good option in s1 and still is a good option in s2 despite HG. And no 2K beat out alot of Maxi's moves on block when he has negative frames transitioning into another stance.

All this said marginal is correct. Maxi is A tier not S. If they fix his stance problems and give him one or two more tools he might become S. Learn the match up more. Maxi's game plan hasn't changed since s1. You just have to look out for HG. That's it.
I see your points, but I disagree that Maxi was ever average in this game even if he has some inconsistencies. I tried backstepping Right Outer BB after blocking stance entries. Some characters can't backstep it after blocking 3B, 6A, 66A+B and 44AB in point blank range, no matter how often I tried. They could only avoid RO A sometimes. Maxi doesn't suddenly become average just because a few characters who have good backsteps can avoid it, that's nonsense. Even if more characters in season 1 could avoid it by backstepping after blocking certain stance entries. You're not taking into consideration his strengths. So for most characters, it's already difficult/impossible to backstep all options after blocking, don't even bother doing it after getting hit. And it's easy to get hit by his stance entries.

I meant that him continuing to attack becomes a problem if he presses buttons instead of attempting to aGI you while you do nothing. Whiff punishing his Neutral/Heaven's guard is possible, but you have to do it quickly because NG/HG A isn't slow. 2K does beat some stance transitions on block, but it's not possible to 2K interrupt all follow ups after blocking 44AB, B/BB, BA and Right Cross B, which are all good moves and are commonly used. I do know the match-up quite well, but even if you have perfect match-up knowledge, it doesn't change the fact that Maxi has always been a threat. I'm not overselling Heaven's guard either, it is in fact stupidly good. Such high reward for a low risk move and using delayed attacks won't always help you if the Maxi player adapts.


Good one but the best mid in the game is Siegfried's aB JF.

Cervantes 3 B+K is pretty nasty too.
Those are very good as well, but they don't instant tech crouch like Maxi's 6A+B. Also, i12 2A interrupts most of Siegfried's options after blocking a:B and although he can punish 2A whiffs with Side Hold A, there is risk involved because you can launch him if you predict Siegfried will enter Side Hold. Maxi's 6A+B is safe on block and also evasive with a bit of tracking so it's less risky.
 
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SilentWall

[10] Knight
Maxi already has that exact move in neutral guard though. What's the meter burn accomplish?

Heaven's guard exists to encourage stance use. If sc blows him back, he has less reason to use stances.
Hi Marginal,
You know Neutral Guard (B+K) only can GI High Mid Vertical attack and opponent can re-GI the follow ups, but I was talking about an Auto-GI which can GI "H-M-L" and do free damage. I think it is worth a meter consumption.

I think there is another option will make both side happy and fair is that make opponent be able to re-GI the followups of HG-RI. Now I think it is the best option.
 

Angrel-San

[10] Knight
I'll never understand Amy as Top Tier.

She is Top Tier alright with all the roses but in a tourney setting, grinding roses especially the White ones is an issue.

Default Amy is High Tier because of her good mixups and safety but there is just no way in hell to ignore that without the roses, she is the lowest damaging character in the game and SC6 is a high damage game overall. She is literally playing WITH A HANDICAP.

She isn't Top Tier.
 

Foot

[12] Conqueror
Amy is a rushdown character who has a stance game more confusing than anyone else. Has good pokes and ways to open you up. Fullscreen whiffpunishers. And she is able to cancel everything into a GI for every situation. On top of that she also gets completely stupid damage as soon as she has red. And getting 4 stacks of that really isnt that hard you can literally get 4 stacks by just poking them the first match without even using combos. That alone is already toptier. Purple amy is just completely brainfucked
 

Angrel-San

[10] Knight
I know who Amy is and what she does. I main her.

Purple Amy has RI so the GI features previous to that is overrated. And I know Red is easy but White isn't easy at all.

What you mean stupid damage on Red? SC 236 A+B is the only thing that qualifies as insane damage and that's just an oki/RE-gi tool. 4BB is okay but I wouldn't call that stupid damage.
 
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MONEYMUFFINS

[13] Hero
I AGREE WITH SILENTWALL. SC6 CAN'T HAVE BOTH RISKY MOVEMENT AND CHARACTERS LIKE ZAS AND MAXI THAT EFFECTIVELY MAKE YOU STAND STILL THE WHOLE MATCH.

THE MATCH BECOMES ALMOST SOLELY ABOUT BLOCKSTRINGS WHICH MAKES THE META GAME EXTREMELY PREDICTABLE YET FRUSTRATING BECAUSE THE OPTIONS TO DEAL WITH IT REVEAL HOW SIGNIFICANTLY IMBALANCED OFFENSE AND DEFENSE ARE.
 

Marginal

Chikara Sashimi
Except you have RI, GI, and RE. And JG. You don't necessarily have to step at all. Dunno why you need a universal get out of jail free card vs pressure. So wasn't SC1.
 

MONEYMUFFINS

[13] Hero
RESIST IMPACT HAS A STUPIDLY TINY WINDOW OF ONLY 9 FRAMES TO USE OUT IN THE OPEN WHILE REVERSAL EDGE HAS A GIANT WINDOW BUT IS FAR TOO RISKY BECAUSE OF GUARD BREAKS.

THE PREMISE MAKES NO SENSE. THESE BLOCKSTRING CHARACTERS KEEP YOU IN A ROCK PAPER SCISSORS SCENARIO IN THEIR FAVOR WHILE THERE'S NO RELIABLE WAY TO NEUTRALIZE THE THREAT.
 

Foot

[12] Conqueror
I dont think you can compare maxi with zas. Its so easy to break through maxis block strings if you know your stuff. And his pressure isnt even always in his favour. He kinda has to force lethal hits if he wants big damage and setting them up is pretty obvious. Most of his stuff is duckable or steppable on reaction.

Zas on the other hand has way more range and can actually keep you in his vortex. Making movement impossible. Well and all his other nonsense on top of that.

Even with heavens guard i wouldnt consider maxi top 5.
 

Angrel-San

[10] Knight
I think Talim is underrated.

Watching GGG in this GF on WB made me reconsider.

Maybe Top 5 is a huge stretch like Bluegod said in his tier list but she should be higher, IMHO.
 

Marginal

Chikara Sashimi
RESIST IMPACT HAS A STUPIDLY TINY WINDOW OF ONLY 9 FRAMES TO USE OUT IN THE OPEN WHILE REVERSAL EDGE HAS A GIANT WINDOW BUT IS FAR TOO RISKY BECAUSE OF GUARD BREAKS.

THE PREMISE MAKES NO SENSE. THESE BLOCKSTRING CHARACTERS KEEP YOU IN A ROCK PAPER SCISSORS SCENARIO IN THEIR FAVOR WHILE THERE'S NO RELIABLE WAY TO NEUTRALIZE THE THREAT.
If there was a reliable way to neutralize their threat, the character would be nonfunctional.
 

SilentWall

[10] Knight
Marginal,
I think I have found a way to deal with Maxi's stance GI offline, but it doesn't work on online. I need to test it offline more to make sure.
You can forget what I said.