Self Defence, or Murder?

Self defence, or murder?

  • Self defence

    Votes: 13 35.1%

  • Murder

    Votes: 14 37.8%

  • Other

    Votes: 9 24.3%

  • Don't know

    Votes: 1 2.7%
  • Total voters
    37
The first shot was self-defense but the following actions, murder. Pretty clear cut to me.
 
How was the pharmacist supposed to know the unconscious robber wasn't going to pull any fast shit? For you and me, it is a nice discussion topic, but for him, it was a matter of life and death.
 
Thank God the US has such smart weapon regulations. Neither the Kids, nor the owner of the store should have weapons at all, but thats another story.

Murder.
 
...This is not murder. Im sure the guy was not looking to just kill someone. He was frightened and had to do what was best for him, not for the others. I'm sure he shot the kid to make sure he wouldn't get up and maybe pull a gun out on him. It was in his best interest to kill the kid. How much would you like to bet that given the same situation you wouldn't have time to decide wether he was a threat or not, or if he still had a gun, or if he was unconcious or just tricking you, or if he would wake up and try something? You generally don't have time for those kind of questions, so it is best to assume the worst and protect yourself rather than your attacker. I don't care if the kid was unarmed, he robbed the guy and a gun was shown to him. Thats all. This is self defence. And, even if it was murder -_- It's not the guys fault (Well technically, but judgement wise he was lacking. Many people use this for their defense when they kill on PURPOSE or for no reason; this man had a reason).
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Oh, and boringryu, if what you say is true then I defenitely think that the law you stated is completely flawed. Not like it would be the only flawed one, but that is stupid. Sooo a man goes into your house and is breaking everything in sight. You later walk in and see the house is destroyed and a HUGE man in black is running towards you, looking as though he is about to harm you. He has no visible weapon, though. You cannot use a gun, or else it is murder? How is that fair? What if he was hiding a knife or something or even a pistol somewhere? Are you just going to say "Well, let's make this fair. I, a 140 pound man will take on you, a 240 pound man with my fists." Is that even sane? You should use whatever you deem necessary to defend yourself in a time of danger against whatever. There should be nothing that regulates how well you can protect yourself. That is downright BS...
 
docvizzo said:
Thank God the US has such smart weapon regulations. Neither the Kids, nor the owner of the store should have weapons at all, but thats another story.
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Is that sarcastic? I mean... are you trying to say that only the Military, state officials, etc. have guns in Germany? I find that very hard to believe. Why shouldn't the owner of the store have a gun? Look what happened? Say the criminal did decide to use his weapon... oh shit son, you just got shot in the face because you weren't prepared.

Thisin' aint no liberal overseas tea party son... THIS IS AMERICA! *in best southern accent*
 
MAILBOXARSON99 said:
How was the pharmacist supposed to know the unconscious robber wasn't going to pull any fast shit?
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Maybe you could tell he knew by the way he was just walking around all ho-hum while coming back in the store, getting his other gun, emptying his clip, and THEN calling the police? He knew what the fuck he was doing, IMO. He had plenty of time to think about it.
 
I dont know a SINGLE Person that has a gun. And believe me im not a brave chield. I cant even remember the last time ANY store was robbed here in Germany.
Last big issue was the killing spree of the 17 year old kid 2 months ago, killed 15 people. His hobbys: Going to the shooting club. His fathers hobby: Going to the shooting club and collecting weapons. If his father had no Berreta under his bed, those 15 people would still live. Easy as that. BTW same issue with the last killing spree a few years ago.

I dont think i will ever get shot. Nobody needs a gun.
 
docvizzo said:
I dont think i will ever get shot. Nobody needs a gun.
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That is pretty ignorant. The reason these kids go on shooting sprees is because they don't have parents who discipline them correctly/pay enough attention to them and they think it's the only way to get noticed. But saying nobody needs a gun is just plain dumb. I have a right to have protection, and i also enjoy my hobby. I'm not going to go on a shooting spree, and letting a few spoil the image of guns for MILLIONS of responsible gun enthusiasts is just plain communism. Didn't they take that wall down?
 
Psylocide said:
That is pretty ignorant. The reason these kids go on shooting sprees is because they don't have parents who discipline them correctly/pay enough attention to them and they think it's the only way to get noticed. But saying nobody needs a gun is just plain dumb. I have a right to have protection, and i also enjoy my hobby. I'm not going to go on a shooting spree, and letting a few spoil the image of guns for MILLIONS of responsible gun enthusiasts is just plain communism. Didn't they take that wall down?
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Ah always that "right to have protection" argument. Protection from what? Other guns maybe? Where does that paranoia come from? Other guns maybe?

And your comment about that kid is just false, he had rich parents, they cared for him, he went to other clubs, had social activities....he was a bit sick in the head and accidentaly there was a berreta with 3000 bullets at home. Rest is known. Are you really going to tell me that this would happen if that boy first had to buy a gun from some mafia underworld guys? Cause thats the only way to get a gun without passing dozens of tests. Lol i dont even know where to buy a gun and i know quite a few people. Even drug dealers here have no gun ;)

Well, have fun with your right of protection. Looks like its working out pretty good. Free guns for everyone. True Freedom. Go protect yourselves.
 
Codemaster92163 said:
...This is not murder. Im sure the guy was not looking to just kill someone. He was frightened and had to do what was best for him, not for the others. I'm sure he shot the kid to make sure he wouldn't get up and maybe pull a gun out on him. It was in his best interest to kill the kid. How much would you like to bet that given the same situation you wouldn't have time to decide wether he was a threat or not, or if he still had a gun, or if he was unconcious or just tricking you, or if he would wake up and try something?
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Can you explain why he chased the other kid without fear of being followed, came back in the store and casually walked past the kid without keeping an eye on him, walked over to his register, and then came back and killed him? Everyone who thinks he's innocent keeps skipping that part.

I've actually been in this situation before, but it wasn't at a store. The gun actually went off near my face, but I was still aware of what was going on around me. I could've killed them and easily been justified, but when they started running away I just left it at that. Now if one of them was laying on the ground after that, I wouldn't kill them. I would keep my gun pointed at them until the police arrive. And this is coming from someone who hates the police for good reason.
 
Hustle_Man_77 said:
Can you explain why he chased the other kid without fear of being followed, came back in the store and casually walked past the kid without keeping an eye on him, walked over to his register, and then came back and killed him? Everyone who thinks he's innocent keeps skipping that part.
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You should be a lawyer ;) Couldnt say it better.
 
I'm just messin, but don't forget the Redcoats and the Kamakazi pilots. But I'm glad we have guns in America, and it seems like a lot of the European countries hate that. That's why all my forefathers were like, "Hey let's go where we can have guns and shoot kids in the stomach at our gas stations."

Self Defense
 
I don't care if he casually walked past him. Everyone thinks differently than someone else, and Im assuming that the guy thought it was best if he killed the kid. Maybe he was really pissed at him for trying to rob him and killed him, I don't know, but im sure he wasn't thinking as logically as you. Not everyone is calm or collected in a situation. And also, the casual walking may indicate that he truly was not in a right state of mind. Look it up, on certain occasions while acting like that in a crisis it signifies that a person may not have a clear understanding of what they are about to do. The kid committed an illegal act that was bound to get him in trouble, anyways. Robbing comes with many dangers, and that was one of them. It was a mere reproccusion. I don't care if the kid was unarmed, he committed a hostile act toward the man and he should have to pay for what he did. Maybe not with his life, but that was a possible consequence of what he did, and that happens to be what transpired. People should learn not to commit crime, because it always has a downside.

Also, even if the guy DID kill the kid, it shouldn't be his fault. None of that would have happened in the kids were smart enough in the first place to get a damned job or something instead of trying to steal from a store. The situation placed the man in an uncomfortable state of mind. You can't do that and think completely clearly (Well, not most people anyways).
 
You couldn't even see the guy's face how can the pharmacist tell if the person was unconscious If he was wearing a ski mask. He could have been faking unconsciousness.
 
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