Siegfried Lag Tactics

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I figured i'd refresh this place to make it more accurate for anyone who's new here and plays online. Ignore my previous post here, it butchered this thread. This not only sets things straight, but gives a definitive list of what Siegfried's lag tactics are. here is Siegfried's lag tactics:

I color coded things to make it simple.

GREEN = Its Good, its cool, its legit.
ORANGE = You CAN use it, but you CANNOT abuse it.
RED = BAAAAAD! LAGGY! U CANNOT DEFEND THIS ONLINE FOR ONE REASON OR ANOTHER RELATING TO LAG!

Lag Lows:
(slow lows that are easy to react to offline.)
2A+B (i28)
SBH A+B (alot of frames. i'd estimate at least between i30 and i40.)
a+ka2A

Borderline Lows:
(debatable. mostly just boosted.)
A+Ka:2AA


Lows free for (ab)use:
SSH AA
a+kA2AA
SSH A+B
2K string
1K
2A
1A
SRSH K
a+ka2A(on wakeup set up)
(any other lows i forgot to mention go here) good players block this nearly 100% of the time.

Lag Mixups: SRSH
SRSH A+B

Why? Because online if you block low for SRSH K, you eat SRSH A+B, simply because lag will not allow you to get up fast enough. THERE IS MINIMUM 5 FRAMES OF LAG ONLINE. shame too, SRSH A+B is one hell of a Gauge worker.

*SRSH B, K and SRSH A are the only legit options.

Lag Boosted Strings(*not lag tactics and can be stopped, but window for stopping the string is greatly reduced, making it extremely difficult. im not saying that you should just stand there and eat every punish like a champ, but theres a difference between say forcing ur opponent to punish properly[say u 3B SCH into grd then u stance cancel, ur punishable by an i24 move, so u K once or twice to provoke from them an i15 punish] or say constantly abusing the strings[SCH K K K K K K...]):

(only common strings are listed)
3 (grd) SCH K {easy to punish, but people complain}
SCH K (grd) SCH K (grd) {same as above, but this is where it starts getting fairly laggy} try step G on this, or just punish it.
1K (NH) ~ WR AA/B/K {can be considered a lag string. 1st few times are absolutely agonizing to attempt to punish} leave it up to ur own reactions to punish
WR [A] ~ SSH {some ppl have alot of difficulty with this 1, mainly due to the stance/WR AA mixup.}

Lag Boosted Shakable Stuns(not much we can do here except get REALLY good at shaking stuns.):
CH 6K learn to shake it urself. its possible.

Debatable:
A+Ka:2AA. is it the mindgame/rarity of use, or the lag that makes this string work so well when its pulled off properly?

*Remember that Most of Siegs Low strings, even the legit 1's are slightly boosted, and with good timing can be jumped quite handily on reaction online. SSH AA, ect...use your own judgment not to get used to overly abusing these.

FYI human reaction speed is around approximately 20 frames.

Also for a side note to everyone, a stance change takes approximately 20 frames(i20)
Please remember to at least TRY to respect frames.

Thank You For Reading, Have a Good Day. =)
 
new slight updates. i think i may make a full all out list for every move and combonation regarding online siegfried in a seperate thread, just to seperate all this disorganised discussion from a definite list(newer people may read the earlier posts 1st). any opinions?
 
Is Sig's a+k~a~:2A or 22_88k~a~:2A (the single low that just looks like his 1A but is not 1A) considered a lag tactic? Its definitely not as easy as pressing 1A with most characters & doesn't knock down on normal hit, it just gives +8 hit, it doesn't guarantee any following damage, just mix-up advantage..

Between Sig's B+K to SBH then A+B for the jumping low sweep & Asta's 1A, which one is more of a "lag-tac"? At least Asta doesn't need to go into stance 1st before being able to perform a long range RO sweep.

In an long range side stepping situation, is Sig's 8_2B+K to SCH then A+B for his long range "anti-step" high slash more reliable than Mitsu's 88_22A+K for his long range anti-step high slash? At least Mitsu can do his long range high slash without warning unlike Sig when he has to Stance -> Pause -> Attack, just like shouting: "Ready, set, GO!" But Mitsu can just "GO!"
Sure Sig's SCH'A+B ROs & Mitsu's 88_22A+K just let's characters spinning close to Mitsu at the wrath of a 1A/any-Mid mixup, but which one is more likely to get crouched online?

I just want to know everyone's opinion on these..
 
its debatable whether or not a+ka2A is a lag tactic. sure it doesnt KND on NH, but its fastest input is i32. we need to confirm with offline players if the move can be easily seen and blocked consistently b4 judging. at most it is borderline because i've already confirmed its success on wake-up with zombiebear. its just a matter of being able to throw it out as a regular move.

sieg SBH A+B and asta 1A are both lag tactics. while sieg needs to be in stance 1st, not only is SBH A+B seeable offline, but online it acts as a lag mixup for SBH B which cannot be reacted to due to lag.

i think personally if your going to charge at your opponent with SCH A+B you need to have some strategy involved, as well as a mindgame to back it up. either that or A) u catch them off guard or B) they enjoy mindlessly stepping. otherwise this can be ducked for a free WR punish, although it is a good tactic if u can keep on pressure(tough to do without eating massive punish). although the same could be said for mitsurugi, IMO SCH A+B is just much more seeable/duckable in an online situation. remember these are fairly slow highs as well. mitsu 22A+K is like i30 or 31 and siegfried SCH A+B is i28(assuming ur already sitting in stance, otherwise its i48)
 
Slayer_X64 said:
its debatable whether or not a+ka2A is a lag tactic. sure it doesnt KND on NH, but its fastest input is i32. we need to confirm with offline players if the move can be easily seen and blocked consistently b4 judging. at most it is borderline because i've already confirmed its success on wake-up with zombiebear. its just a matter of being able to throw it out as a regular move.

sieg SBH A+B and asta 1A are both lag tactics. while sieg needs to be in stance 1st, not only is SBH A+B seeable offline, but online it acts as a lag mixup for SBH B which cannot be reacted to due to lag.

i think personally if your going to charge at your opponent with SCH A+B you need to have some strategy involved, as well as a mindgame to back it up. either that or A) u catch them off guard or B) they enjoy mindlessly stepping. otherwise this can be ducked for a free WR punish, although it is a good tactic if u can keep on pressure(tough to do without eating massive punish). although the same could be said for mitsurugi, IMO SCH A+B is just much more seeable/duckable in an online situation. remember these are fairly slow highs as well. mitsu 22A+K is like i30 or 31 and siegfried SCH A+B is i28(assuming ur already sitting in stance, otherwise its i48)
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I played offline recently with LostP, TughishP, HumanTyphoon, Hawkeyes.. ThughishP manage to guard it a lot.

About SCH'A+B, I do have strategies with it. :)
 
slight update to the list. final version coming soon, likely after the next handful of tiny updates.
 
Jink said:
About SCH'A+B, I do have strategies with it. :)
Click to expand...

Do tell? I duck that stuff any time somebody goes into SCH at range, and people duck me if I try something like that too. My only real strategy is using it as part of 3~ if people start Guard Impacting SCH K/SCH A. Otherwise I use it exclusively in CH 3~ SCH A+B.
 
imo 2a+b, SBH a+b, and srsh k/a+b are his only real lag lows. SRSH k is slow, readable, knocks down, gets blocked offline always and does massive damage...
 
SRSH K mixes up with B offline so it won't get blocked consistently. Much worse than having it blocked is having your opponent whiff punish you by stepping... Left I think? I'm too lazy to check.
Offline it's not getting it blocked I worry about, it's missing completely.
I know some people will argue SRSH K to be reactable, but then again a couple of people can block Mitsu's 2K, B on reaction. @_@.
 
yeah SRSH b is pretty much free chip damage if you let him get into stance. nobody's gonna block that. that said, people online mix SRSH k with a+b, which is lol bullshit.
 
Online is bullshit period. Personally I favour landing the B: Yields more potential damage, tech trap option and still allows you to build on your pressure games. SRSH A+B is just for SG damage.
 
Synraii said:
I know some people will argue SRSH K to be reactable, but then again a couple of people can block Mitsu's 2K, B on reaction. @_@.
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Heheheh, thats BoguS, & anyone can prove it, even a 5 year old using mitsu to test the reaction from any of us. I guard Mitsu's 2KB often & anyways punish with 1B when I do guard it, & I happily admit that its just plain luck, similar to grabs, online or offline, with that move there's no difference.
 
I'm not saying I can - a friend of mine is adamant that he can react to it, though he may just be twitch ducking whenever he sees Mitsu crouch as 2K B causes him to duck slightly. You'd have to ask him man.
I love it when mitsu players go for 2K B by the edge: I do love a free ringout. Though I find myself eating it more often than not, so I'd say learning the just ukemi is vital.
 
On SBH A+B:
There are times on wake-up were SBH A+B is a force block... The move in general is far to slow to throw out at neutral, thats just obvious... However, it's -11 on grd. so you really only have to worry about a good Amy, and the SCD is great enough to make them block it... I'm glad it's good at catching step too... To me it's in the Orange...
 
I agree with Zombie, SBH'A+B should be orange, specially in high wall stages where it won't cause an online "cheap" RO. I've used it before purposely for TJing, which is legit for punishing lows.

Btw Slayer, I'm not using RSH'K online, there's not much to learn from it, but I'm using RSH'A+B a lot to test spacing set ups. So against me don't worry about me doing RSH'K or B. I'm just not using them online. If I ever do RSH'K it would have been as TC.
 
Agreed, it's an awesome way to dodge the 2nd low on Mitsu's RLC UB if he's trying to cover distance - I've seen idiots do it.
 
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