Siegfried Matchup Discussion Thread

66A is rather eh. People start ducking that on reaction if you use it too often. I personally use 3B, B6, 22_88A, agA and a lot of backdash.
 
His range is deceptive, it's hard to tell when his strings end, and his speed is giving me problems. Not to mention a lot of his attacks all just look the same to me.

Any advice on how to defend and punish? How to interrupt?

I rarely encounter good ones, but when I do, I have a hell of a time getting back on offense.

EDIT: I'd already been to the Maxi forum looking for something like a string defense guide but I didn't see one.
 
From what i saw in my matches the double dash (well almost) technique i discovered works really well, for me at least.
To perform it tap 4 and as soon as you release it input aG/bG/kG. Its not very hard to do, but also not very easy to master.
Can do the exact same thing with steps (2/8/22/88 instead of 4, or 6 for that matter :P).

I've said this before, but im only posting it again cause it make a big difference in my own gameplay. Could be of some help
 
The key against Pyrrha that I have found is being mindful of her powerful tool set and dealing with it accordingly while laying on your own pressure. The tricks are effective use of your i15 moves post-agA/ SCH B. The advantage to agA and SCH B compared to 66A and B4 respectively are that they are A) faster, B) less likely to be evaded due to not beign surrounded in blue lightningy goodness.

Now the key is to slot your Pyrrha in one of two broad categories. A) people who know their frames, B) mindless Pyrrha's with a sense of entitlement who think they can crush anything by spamming BB/AA/ 236B. So adjust strategy accordingly.

Putting the pressure on Pyrrha: So after aga / SCH B you've got a wonderful option 66K. 66K will TC highs, beat out BBs but trade with 2A. If your opponent gets into the habit of 2Aing post agA/ SCH B, go into SBH for an aGI and hilarious damage for them throwing out a safe interrupt. Making them eat 91 (meterless) - 110 damage (half-meter) for throwing out such an innocuous move will teach them FAST to respect your pressure. CH 66K isn't bad too (though there are no guaranteed follow-ups so far as I know as 3B is techable to either side), so get a feel for your opponent and mid-screen you can get decent damage off 66kA+B+K SCH B, 60-odd damage isn't anything too marvelous but damage is damage. HOWEVER if you get them into wall pressure CH 66K, 3B, (delay until opponent slides to ground) SCH B, 3B is a meterless BNB combo that leaves you in SCH , manually 2B+K or 8B+K after for SCH B on wake-up continuing the pressure game, if they start blocking out of fear you have throws/1K/2A at your disposal.

Ultimate scrub strategy vs. Pyrrha for hilarious free guard-breaks: If you're worried that Pyrrha will roll your guard pressure on oki just start throwing out 66B (this move tracks rolling hilariously well/though if you get a low hit with agA 3B tip is a better forceblock). Yes she can punish it point blank, but if you use it after whiff punishing with 3B/WS B, SCH kA+B+K, agA she will not be able to punish it due to its distance and you'll get free guard-damage. Depending on how many moves I get my Pyrrha to block /my life lead, I'll just start throwing this out point blank anyway and eating a 236B to Guard Crush them later. That guard crush will pay off with a relatively strong combo / 3B, SCH kA+B+K agA W! combo for 110-150 damage depending on angle/meter expenditure. Well worth it in my opinion.

High-Risk / High reward nonsense mix-ups: 2A+B is now positive on block. With that come hilarious high-reward games. SBH K will beat out Pyrrha WS A/B, but you are susceptible to her 2A / 236:B. There is good news however, 236B can be evaded after that with manual 2/8B+K. Though due to whiffing issues you might not be able to capitalize with SCH B, but SCH kA+B+K manually should catch leaving you with all its wonderful options. Now you may be thinking, "But Pyro you nub, they will just 2A/WS A me and catch my tech step, this is such a terrible strategy!". Take the minimal damage once, to train your opponent with this pavlovian response, try this set-up again and sit in SBH, aGI for hilarious damage.

I've got to get going now, but I've got some ideas in mind for discussing strategies to deal with Pyrrha's toolset that I might be able to get up here later on.
 
Specific Pyrrha tools and how to deal with them

236AA: 2nd hit is SBH aGIable, guaranteeing SBH B on airstun which will relaunch. If you're worried that your opponent will cut the string short to bait this you can 8K, TJing the second hit if it comes, or hitting her for not completing the move (untested). This is however a powerful step-kill for Pyrrha.

236B: Try to limit usage of unsafe moves (outside of stances the only ones to worry about are 66B/22BB close range and 3A. When blocking this make sure to punish it in some way, damage is damage. 3K is + on hit, 6A as well but it has pushback (which may or may not be desirable). It can also be punished with 66K/66kA+B+K, but this has to be buffered pretty quickly.

B+K (or at least that's what it was in SC4) (the side-stepping shield bashy thing): this is a solid move that Pyrrha's might use after BB to bait out a 3B. Though 3B is probably best used as a whiff punisher, rather than it's mix-up on block (the fastest of which trades with AA anyway). Back to the main point, this move can be trumped with agA/ 3A (though 3A is riskier and involves an absolutely certain read or you migt end up paying).

A+B meterless GI v mids: Depends on your Pyrrha, some people will make you pay by baiting out relatively safe moves and covering their asses with this. If that's your kind of Pyrrha let them, they are vulnerable if you don't take the bait exposing them to wicked damage. You can also trump this with effective use of agA (which you should be doing anyway; "But Pyro, then they'll just duck it!" If your opponent starts predicting agA and ducking in front of Siegfried they've already lost because that exposes them to free 3B for ~ 80 damage with meter + fierce oki/forceblocks)

Those are all the specific tools she has that comes to mind. If you have any other concerns or moves that give you difficulty I'm certain that members of this forum can offer constructive/creative approaches to dealing with the issues.

When the going gets tough, remember that Siegfried is not a straightforward character. The trick is to preface your attacks with advantage, don't throw random moves out expecting to hit.

Because of how slow B4/66A are, they are unreliable at high-level play (unless you want to use the aGI off 66A, but then you deprive yourself of the advantage). The advantage off of SCH B/agA serve the dual-purpose of guard-breaking as well as offering you a workable range. With them being only +2 (at the range Pyrrha operates) your tool set is limited effectively by her frames to 6A, 3K, 1K, 66K. That's no reason to fret because these are all great pokes.

A final word, another tool that can really tilt the odds in your favour is 22ka:2A; until people block it reliably it is +3 on hit ensuring that you can trump opponents with all those options or at mid-range favouring B6/3B (though people might decide to block after this move).

P.S. a note on guard-breaking: SCH B, 3B, B6, agA, SBH B are all solid moves to throw out (especially with the 360 degree hitbox on SBH B for lol hits). If you can plan your Guard break really well, the optimal move I've found to break with is 44B as you're guaranteed an SBH B on follow up giving most damage for lest effort / meter (91 meterless/110 with half-meter, don't blow CE on this as it's a half meter for another 8-10 damage) other players are using 8B+K, SCH kA+B+K stuff though I find the timing tricky and unreliable you're free to do that as well if you feel the need.

P.P.S. "But Pyro, what if they block my block trap?!" Most of the options I've listed are safe, so I wouldn't worry too much. But it leaves open the opportunity to throw. Even if they break Siegfried gets thrown into optimal midrange. And then if they start ducking... well 3B is a wonderful move in those circumstances.

So have fun, remember your reads. And remember that your opponents respond to incentives, give them a reward for something you throw out and switch up your set-ups to capitalize.

Hopefully this was of some use to the players on this forum. And it is open to criticism from other players. Pyrrha is a tough-call but if you use your tools effectively you can do what you need to.
 
PyroZamfir said:
slow B4
Click to expand...

The latest input for that is so fucking fast it will make their head spin. It's also force-block or force-block-except for one direction-of-roll in a lot of situations, e.g. post 22A on hit. Don't write that one off, as it's probably one of his best moves. I'm also liking 3aA in that match-up just because -13 on block combined with forcing her into a weird ass angle on block makes punishing it not something you can do consistently unless you're always looking for it and are always point blank - and at the very least, you're not getting stabbed in any case.

Other than that, you've pretty much said all you've needed to. I did make a post in the video thread about this matchup, so I'll quote it here for posterity's sake:
Heaton said:
A few bullet points:
  • She can only really kill step at farther than close range with 66A, which has pitiful range and is pretty much SBH auto-GI bait. 8WayRun with impunity and know that you're safe for the most part.
  • SCH A at a distance spaces a lot of close range fighters out pretty well, but the problem with it is that it's :h::m: instead of :m::h:, which means if you space it incorrectly (or you're fighting that streetwalking cocksucker Ω) you're going to be eating a tech crouching punisher.
  • On the topic of spacing and baiting, using 4B+K and then following up with SSH BBB can be extremely effective because of her poor range compared to yours. Keep yourself at tip range with everything before you transition, and you might just catch a poorly-timed 236B of hers with your sword instead of your gut.
  • Punish the shit out of her if she thinks you're too stupid to do anything against her 66B(BE). Just Guard, 66B, Quick Step, I don't care, just do SOMETHING to let her know you're not brain dead.
  • Don't get 3(B) blocked if you can help it, ESPECIALLY if you have no meter. Simple advice, I know, but against blocked 3(B) she can just 236B to beat everything except SCH KK. If you did SCH KK, the second hit will go right over her head, exposing your nice, delicious abdomen ripe for the stabbing. She can also auto-GI SBH k(BE) for free with her A+B, but you can take that on a person-by-person basis if they're not clever enough.
  • Against 1K spam and other general annoying pokes, it might not be a bad idea to trade some life for better spacing. Jumping away after 1K on hit will either evade another 1K, or be hit by AA, 4K, or some other poke, which enables air control and sends you flying. Not the best course of action, but you absolutely have to be proactive in getting her off of you - there's no safe option that beats all of hers.
  • As a final point, you out-damage her, and the only way she's going to beat you is if she gets up in your face and you let her play her game. Keep her where YOU are most comfortable, and punish her for when she does screw up - eating 1B has a sort of "humbling" effect on your opponent that makes them much more wary about sticking their neck out, and it will make you look very cool.
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What are the impact frames for latest input B4? I've been doing it SC4 B:4 style and got sick of how unbearable slow it was, but I might try to incorporate it if the impact frames on B~4 are closer to unreactable.
 
Does anyone of you ever use 66A+B? I am just curious, normally i wouldn't bother about using such an unsafe move but the high damage is kind of compelling. So i sparingly use it after KND sometimes, where it is slightly less dangerous to use.
 
So just a scrubkiller move then. Thats basically what i thought as well but i thought maybe someone found a way to make use of that move.
 
Talking to Slayer, he suggested that it tracks roll on oki. If it has identical tracking to 66B on roll it would theoretically be a better option being -16 vs. -22 on block. I don't know if it has the range 66B does though in tracking roll at mid-long.
 
No idea what happened to the original context of this post. Just let the record show that a few weeks after I started playing Maxi was one of the most difficult matchups for me.
 
Well It's been a few days so it's looking like nobody has any pointers lol. It's not like I see good Maxi players often, they're kinda rare. But I suppose I'd have to just study his strings and frame data. Maybe mess around in training mode.
 
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