Siegfried Q&A / General Discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.
Was at impact today rocking some Sieg on some casual matches and found myself playing kayane for a good 5 games at one point, she trashed me but i managed to get some pretty decent matches. Found my best tool was SBH K (BE) to catch people out.

fighting some matches at tournie level sure helps put your play style into perspective, got some work to do with Sieg. =P
 
MrRidge was there anything you noticed that wasn't working at tourney level, or wasn't worth the effort? In terms of moves or even set ups.
 
Warning essay incoming!

To be honest against most people it's a case of who knows Sieg and who doesn't. You can really tell those who have bothered to put the time in will keep you locked down as much as they can.

If they know the character well enough it's hard to catch them off with most things. WR AA and SBH A were both good for closing distance, it's a good little mind game with the cancel into WR B. Sometimes I found it best to wait for someone to attack me expecting to hit me on wake up and then laying out WR B. Overall I found WR B to be one of my best tools of the day you can really bait people in with lows and cancels.

22_88 BB is amazing for punishing people who run right at you(suprisingly this happens quite a bit just because they want to close distance), I tried baiting a few people in with it and it works wonders. Again a case of who knows Sieg and who doesn't but sometimes the second hit is what catches people off. I used it at close range against an ivy that I managed to step around but again it's that risk of flying straight past your opponent and leaving yourself open.

I focused a lot on 44B oddly enough that threw a few people off and baited them in, then went into SBH K (BE) for floor damage or run counter if they ran in after the 44B then went for the mix up of either 2A+B or 3B on wake up. problem with that is that 2A+B telegraphs a bit. oh and not forgetting SCH K that knee seriously is the holy grail.

SBH K is a good move for catching off aggressive players. I used it quite a bit on Kayane, but she knows Sieg very well as she was on top of most everything I tried. I had major trouble getting off SCH B afterwards as most people gaurd expecting it or another SCH K. found it more useful to use SCH K. To be honest SCH B didn't seem worth using unless directly off of 3B. people know it's coming and either sidestep, use a fast punisher or just gaurd and punish.

Like always 66K (BE) is a brillaint punisher the times I did use it it worked pretty well. (another good chance to get that SCH B in)

There was one move though that most people failed to keep up with and that was SSH BBB. Most either don't see it coming or attack after the first hit expecting an opening. So i ended up using that, even if they block it has some nice GB damage so.

SRSH B also works well against aggressive players and the stun can help get some meaty damage in.

It was my first major time playing on stick i generally go for a pad, so i couldn't test as much as i would like as i wasn't as at home with everything, But would i say Sieg is Viable? yea, is he as viable as others...hell no not in the least. I'm sure you guys all know but it's just a case of applying enough pressure from the stance mix ups and once you get them down it's just keeping them on the backfoot and playing mind games till they muck up. I'd play some games with players who were really good and then just perfect them once or twice.

Against Kayane, which was my first real top Tournie player match, I felt like I was getting swatted around though, a bit due to my incompetence with a stick but again she knew the match up and really in that situation I think against most characters Siegs gonna have an up hill struggle.

Of the match ups I had today:

Leixia - against Sieg easily in the favour of leixia and she can punish hard. mostly just trying to play keep away and play mind games with stances.
Yoshi - to be honest this one was alright, the mix ups worked pretty well. due to his range it's best to just bait him, make him whiff and then punish. Getting in closer can pay off if the pressure is high enough from stances but it's not really worth the risk most of the time.
Ivy - I found this to be an easier match up. Kept Ivy on the move and used WR AA and SBH A to keep the pressure on while she tried to make space.
Viola - lots and lots of sidestepping into 22_88 BB. due to her speed using SBH K when caught close in worked very well.

This has turned into quite the essay so i'll leave it here =P I don't know if that answers everything you wanted to know but I hope I got enough down.
 
Thank you for the write-up Mr. Ridge very helpful! I am very very surprised that you found SSH BBB working so well for you in a tourney setting. As much as I love that movie I thought it would be suicide to throw it out too much around pros. Easily punishable usually. I also use WR AA to close space frequently but again I find pros block and punish or notice immediately when I do the cancel and punish. Maybe I'm not mixing up right.

LesPaul, while I agree with your sentiment to some extent please don't come in here spouting that shit it is not exactly a moral booster for us, brah.
 
Oh I agree that WR AA is very situational, best to catch people side stepping from range and hopefully catching people off.

Yea I was also quite suprised about SSH BBB as well. I think it's just a good gimmick against people for a while but once they get used to it like you said, not worth how unsafe it is. One of the main things i try when fighting is to keep as unpredictable as possible even to the point of doing unsafe things just to keep that unpredictability alive. It's a gamble for sure but it can pay off and really play with your opponent, especially if you get them so far onto the back foot they don't know what to expect and literally give you free hits.

with the cancel to WR B I found I had to just go through with the SBH A and WR AA a few times just to keep the mind game going, even if that meant eating damage at some points. I found this successful mainly because I could for the most part make back the damage with the mind game later and then some.

of course I won't lie i'm not the best player ever by any stretch of the imagination and high level play has given me a lot to think about and work on.
 
SCH B is one of his best moves. It's + on block so they won't punish it lol and if it somehow hits it's worth huge pain. I use it on wake up to keep the advantage.
 
Reptile said:
SCH B is one of his best moves. It's + on block so they won't punish it lol and if it somehow hits it's worth huge pain. I use it on wake up to keep the advantage.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree that it's a great move, I probably made a mistake on the punishing, was a long ass day. But I was having trouble getting it off against certain players yesterday. I generally go into SCH from 3B or 22_88 K(A).

I guess for wake up you go in from 2_8 B+K ? I never thought about that too much, I might start doing that a lot more.

I'm personally all open for advice, gotta improve somehow. =)
 
Changing the subject a bit, but, any advice on the Astaroth match-up ?

Seems like a pretty tough one to me. I know this guy who's about the same level as me, and lately, being able to win against his Astaroth has been a chore.

My main problem is definately spacing. Astaroth is ridiculously annoying. He's stronger than you at close range, and stronger than you at long range. My analys is that you have to constantly keep him at mid range to gain the advantage, the which is pretty hard to do, thanks to his insanely long bullrush. His 6k is also pretty annoying... SSH K even whiffs right into Astaroth when he's doing it, which makes it unbeatable in that stance, at close range, while SSH K is supposed to be one of our fastest tools.

Of course, since a lot of his BnB moves are horizontals, using SBH is very useful. However, his reach often makes punishing post GI with SBH B impossible... And SBH A really doesn't do that much damage. So really, it's often a gamble. Will he bullrush ? Will he do an horizontal, and you have to choose between step and SBH, often not a for a that much important reward.

So well yeah, if any of you had any advice, I'd gladly appreciate it.
 
Barely ?
They nerf 3 of his last solid move.
2A+B was very good on wake up and to catch roll. Now only 1K and 3B left I guess.
This move was very interesting too on combo : for example 66KBE 2A+B won't work anymore I guess. it won't connect after SCH B for tech trap.
(And I guess CH 3B SCH (delai) KBE 2[A+B] SBH K BE won't work anymore too :-p)

B4 was the only real move to do guard burst damage.
2B >Guard burst> SBH B was the best Siegfried option after guard bust.
22A : I guess the TC won't be reliable at all.
For me it's very important nerf.
The character just lost every rare way he dad to do TRUE damage (more than 80).
 
They said 2b but not hold b] so i guess thats still viable

Yeah 2a+b is a huge lose. But it was too strong fot a tech trap i guess, being guaranteed regardless except for one side.

Im happy that his sch b is not touched and he still have other options to work with

Also nm's throw nerf makes me feel better about sieg lol...

Bad matchups like pyrrha/opyrrha and natsu are nerfed ( if we can 3b stabs..)[/b]
 
Don't forget that they said only SOME chars 2B doesn't guard burst anymore. Sieg may be one of the chars that is still able to, which honestly i think is likely.

Also the general damage output and safeness is now lower, which makes sieg's damage more relevant and makes his risk/reward less screwed.
 
@Mike Breezy
Maybe because the character already has the biggest nerf in the story of this game and because he is already low tier ?

@hellbotom
Since it's not totally garanteed it's not "too strong" I guess.

@ChaosK
Reduce 2B GB potentiel is already too much.

It's fascinating how people can be so optimistic, even in critical situation. But I guess until SCVI you will need it :-)

demotivational-poster-43007.jpg
 
Yeah im not saying sieg is great by any means, but things are made easier for him compared to prepatch from what ive read.

Still im not sure about how the overall changes gonna play out when sieg is concerned. Stuff like backstep nerf (which i think/hope is gonna play to his advantage)
Hmmm
 
The GB stuff isn't all downside imo. Sieg is more of a defensive turtling char (at least thats how i am playing him) and less GB damage in SCV is good for that playstyle right?

Honestly, if it weren't for that major nerfs that a lot of chars recieved, i am pretty sure sieg would have been one of the chars they would've buffed.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back