Siegfried SCV Non-Gameplay Related Discussion
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Sacharja
[12] Conqueror
Synraii, you lout, change your avatar back. =P
Stryker
[10] Knight
I just want to ask about specifically the new 4A like moves; I saw the old 4A plus a new move similar but with mid properties I guess... I already know you will test if Old stuff like 22_88B and 66k are still in the game.
Jink
[10] Knight
I always wanted to Earth Divide & listen to Sig in German yelling: "I'll smite thee!! HAA!!" (Ich werde dich schlagen!)
Panto:
1. Does Sig have SC4 4B+K'A+B (SSH'A+B)?
2. Does Sig have SC4 SCH'A+B?
3. Is 6B cancel-able?
4. During SBH, the move that looks like the 2nd swing from WS'AA, is that the new SBH'A? Or is it a SBH'cancel with the option to attack low?
5. Does SBH'GI (B+K to GI) have the "no-GI-frame-gap" that has in SC4 during the frame when Sig sits down?
6. Does Sig have new & more practical ways to go Back Turned?
7. 33A & 99A, are they the same move as 66A like in SC4? Or does 33A & 99A works like in SC2 with NM? Btw, 33A was Armlet Crusher (3A in SC4), & 99A was Alternate Cross (22_88A in SC4)
8. What's new with 44_11_77A? Still inputs for Backspin Slash? Do all three work for the same move? Or does 11A, 77A, 44A have new different swings?
9. Is the new "Hilt Mid Thrust" safe? What's its input?
10. After grabbing with Flap Jack, does it leaves the rival knocked down enough time for Sig to 2A+B without them being able to roll away or sideways like in SC3?
11. Does Sig have bgB?
12. Does Sig have any new horizontal mids? Like SC3's RSH'A & SC2's NSSr'bA?
13. Does Alternate Cross (22_88A in SC4) still whiffs at the tip vs crouch dashes?
14. How fast is 44BG-cancel? Is it practical?
15. Is this move at 2:27 the new 22_88A?
16. a+kA2A or A2A?
17. Does SC5 have While-Landing attacks? Like in SC123?
18. Can 1A stance into SSH?
19. How fast or/& fluid is inputting 6B+K for RSH then A for SC2's 66A? Does come out as fast as SC2's 66A if inputting 6b+kA asap?
20. Any news for Earth Divide (?236B) New cancel into SCH? Is it chargeable?
Please look into what you CAN, don't feel pressured to answer all my questions, & have fun. n_n
Stryker
[10] Knight
I have a headache trying to read all of it... Jink try to resume your main questions, so I won't have another headache trying to read the answer to your post from Synrai and Pantocrator.
Pantocrator
[10] Knight
Not really.
It will be possible do play the game in Paris this week-end.
Jink
[10] Knight
n_n Those are my main concerns for now. Panto said to ask, so I did. n_n I tried to type it as clear as I could as in game specs. Im most interested to know if Sig has any flaws like he did in SC4, hopefully Sig will have no-flaws from SC4 at least. I really disliked how is that in SC4, I'd B+K most of my friends online when they did Horizontals vs me, & their Horizontal still hit me anyway. The gap is no good n_n
Pantocrator
[10] Knight
A small report. If you have any questions or remarks, don't hesitate !
Moves News
Stance news
Removed move
SSH A+B
SCH A+B, SCH kB, SCH (B)
SRSH A+B
SBH A+B
Replaced move
SSH BBB (better) SSH BB(B) > SCH
SSH K (the old one)
SRSH A (old nighmare 66A)
New move
SBH A (low cancelable)
General news
6K : SC4 4K
4KK : SC4 4B + 6K. Combo in NH
66K : KND in NH
3AA : SC4 22A
4A : follow up of SC4 66KA. 4(A) > SRSH
22A : SC4 66A but mid
66A : horizontal GB
BB : combo in NH !
BBK : like old SC
BBA : BB with the follow up of SC4 b2A (cancelable)
3(B) : More safe, more damage, combo at max range. Stronger but not broken at all.
4B : new mid. Seem useless, stun only on CH, unsafe against natsu’s AA
B4 : vertical GB
22BB : SC4 B4 + SC2 night BB follow up, the second is cancelable (amazing). SC4 88B is return to the original place : SSHB. First I was a little sad. But in fact it’s really better. This new 22B is really useful, one of my favorite new moves. Now you can do TRUE damage after a step. But you can use it for zoning too, it breaks the guard bar very well.
WSB : the old one, just better than SC4 one. Btw the combo WS(B) SCH B seems character specific. I hope that this combo will be more consistant.
Brave Edge move :
SCH K BE : SCH K + SC3 22B. Relaunch + GB. Amazing, for NH damage after 3B or WS B. 3A/3B or agA (for wall splat) connect after.
66K BE : 66K + SC4 WSB. Relaunch. After SCH K BE is combo and relaunch again (a
A can connect)
SBH K BE : Instant SC4 SBH (K). Not enough damage to be very useful yet. The combo SRSH K SBH K BE does less than I expected. Seems usafe btw.
His Brave Edge moves are just awesome.
Critical Edge : useless in this demo. Whiff often, ridiculous damage. Maybe it’s possible to combo after. I didn’t test.
Stance game reflexion:
More interesting. Now there is mix up in SSH and SRSH. Stance transition and cancel are faster and more fluid. It’s more easy to confuse the opponent, especially with SBHA_A2. This cancel and transition give a lot of funny possibilities. Cancel-throw works well.
Instead of SC4 make whiff the opponent is more rewarding. SCH B does TRUE damage. And SSH B is more faster (and useful than the old one…). These 2 moves make the Siegfried game stance more interesting and solid.
Stance transition are more interesting too (after 3B by exemple, B+K works against all horizontals move, even Natsu's AA)
In conclusion, the Siegfried game stance seems more funny and more strong. Wunderbar !
General game reflexion
Siegfried is still a CH/mid range/zoning character.
Now the character has True damage. Even in NH. He is also able to MOVE (step/run) very well.
Even if the Counter Hit still seems the heart of his gameplay, others gameplan are also viable.
By example you can play more defensive oriented whiff punish/poke, or be more concentrate about stance confusing or zoning/SG liked I played most of the time in SC4( For the moment with Maxi he should be the best character for break the guard bar).
Btw his new whiff punishing skills make him more strong at mid-range, because now it’s not possible to do zoning and spacing against Siegfried without real risk (in SC4 you only could fear Counter Hit).
My favorites upgrade :
1) 1)Siegfried can step and backdash (thank you so much Namco !)
2) 2)More NH damage (after all he has the BIG sword…)
3) 3)More interesting and strong game stance
Conclusion
Siegfried is stronger than in SC4, and seems more interesting to play, even if they removed the CF.
The range seems better, and his mid-range game could make him a serious competitive character. Of course he still keep his mains weakpoints : unsafe and pretty bad at close range. Btw his long recovery could be one of his main weakpoint in SC5 (because damage of all character increased) So even this character will become stronger he won’t be easy or free to play.
I guess that you will have to adapt your gameplan about the MU. But with his many viable gameplans who make him more polyvalent, I guess he won’t have catastrophic/impossible MU anymore. But we will see.
To be honest this Siegfried make me dream, even I liked very much some previous stuff (22B or SCH (B) by exemple) in general for the moment I’m very satisfied. Especially about new 3B/22B/SSHB/SBHA/Stance cancel and transition.
Keep in mind that it’s a demo. And that I'm maybe wrong on some points. Maybe I could do a better repport If I'm able to play again.
Moves News
Stance news
Removed move
SSH A+B
SCH A+B, SCH kB, SCH (B)
SRSH A+B
SBH A+B
Replaced move
SSH BBB (better) SSH BB(B) > SCH
SSH K (the old one)
SRSH A (old nighmare 66A)
New move
SBH A (low cancelable)
General news
6K : SC4 4K
4KK : SC4 4B + 6K. Combo in NH
66K : KND in NH
3AA : SC4 22A
4A : follow up of SC4 66KA. 4(A) > SRSH
22A : SC4 66A but mid
66A : horizontal GB
BB : combo in NH !
BBK : like old SC
BBA : BB with the follow up of SC4 b2A (cancelable)
3(B) : More safe, more damage, combo at max range. Stronger but not broken at all.
4B : new mid. Seem useless, stun only on CH, unsafe against natsu’s AA
B4 : vertical GB
22BB : SC4 B4 + SC2 night BB follow up, the second is cancelable (amazing). SC4 88B is return to the original place : SSHB. First I was a little sad. But in fact it’s really better. This new 22B is really useful, one of my favorite new moves. Now you can do TRUE damage after a step. But you can use it for zoning too, it breaks the guard bar very well.
WSB : the old one, just better than SC4 one. Btw the combo WS(B) SCH B seems character specific. I hope that this combo will be more consistant.
Brave Edge move :
SCH K BE : SCH K + SC3 22B. Relaunch + GB. Amazing, for NH damage after 3B or WS B. 3A/3B or agA (for wall splat) connect after.
66K BE : 66K + SC4 WSB. Relaunch. After SCH K BE is combo and relaunch again (a
A can connect)SBH K BE : Instant SC4 SBH (K). Not enough damage to be very useful yet. The combo SRSH K SBH K BE does less than I expected. Seems usafe btw.
His Brave Edge moves are just awesome.
Critical Edge : useless in this demo. Whiff often, ridiculous damage. Maybe it’s possible to combo after. I didn’t test.
Stance game reflexion:
More interesting. Now there is mix up in SSH and SRSH. Stance transition and cancel are faster and more fluid. It’s more easy to confuse the opponent, especially with SBHA_A2. This cancel and transition give a lot of funny possibilities. Cancel-throw works well.
Instead of SC4 make whiff the opponent is more rewarding. SCH B does TRUE damage. And SSH B is more faster (and useful than the old one…). These 2 moves make the Siegfried game stance more interesting and solid.
Stance transition are more interesting too (after 3B by exemple, B+K works against all horizontals move, even Natsu's AA)
In conclusion, the Siegfried game stance seems more funny and more strong. Wunderbar !
General game reflexion
Siegfried is still a CH/mid range/zoning character.
Now the character has True damage. Even in NH. He is also able to MOVE (step/run) very well.
Even if the Counter Hit still seems the heart of his gameplay, others gameplan are also viable.
By example you can play more defensive oriented whiff punish/poke, or be more concentrate about stance confusing or zoning/SG liked I played most of the time in SC4( For the moment with Maxi he should be the best character for break the guard bar).
Btw his new whiff punishing skills make him more strong at mid-range, because now it’s not possible to do zoning and spacing against Siegfried without real risk (in SC4 you only could fear Counter Hit).
My favorites upgrade :
1) 1)Siegfried can step and backdash (thank you so much Namco !)
2) 2)More NH damage (after all he has the BIG sword…)
3) 3)More interesting and strong game stance
Conclusion
Siegfried is stronger than in SC4, and seems more interesting to play, even if they removed the CF.
The range seems better, and his mid-range game could make him a serious competitive character. Of course he still keep his mains weakpoints : unsafe and pretty bad at close range. Btw his long recovery could be one of his main weakpoint in SC5 (because damage of all character increased) So even this character will become stronger he won’t be easy or free to play.
I guess that you will have to adapt your gameplan about the MU. But with his many viable gameplans who make him more polyvalent, I guess he won’t have catastrophic/impossible MU anymore. But we will see.
To be honest this Siegfried make me dream, even I liked very much some previous stuff (22B or SCH (B) by exemple) in general for the moment I’m very satisfied. Especially about new 3B/22B/SSHB/SBHA/Stance cancel and transition.
Keep in mind that it’s a demo. And that I'm maybe wrong on some points. Maybe I could do a better repport If I'm able to play again.
Pantocrator
[10] Knight
1) No
2)No
3)No
4) SBH A
5) I couldn't test
6) No
7) 66_33_22 : new horizontal GB. 3AA : SC4 22A.
8)Seems same moves
9) Safe against Natsu 3K. But not against her AA. It's 4B now.
10)No
11)didn't find it
12) 22A : old SC4 66A but mid.
13) I didn't care about this question ;-)
14)It's already pratical in SC4. Still pratical.
15) yes
16) 22kA 2A. I don't know if a+kA works.
17) no
18) no
19) not really, but the stance are faster.
20) still pretty useless, ahaha.
Sacharja
[12] Conqueror
Good stuff, Panto.
Did you have the chance to test Siegs new 22A (old SC3 66A) on safety? On one video I saw Ivy attempt an Ivy lick after blocking it (and you blocked it), but it looked like it got buffered late. The knockdown also looks as if it could guarantee a 3B afterwards (similar to the second hits of 1AA and SSH AA), it certainly leaves you close enough. Could you confirm that its TC properties are still intact? With how powerful step and the overall damage seems to be right now, shutting down step attempts seems to be one of the most important gameplan aspects and it would be nice to have something to rely on besides agA.
Also, the new 4A (old 2nd hit of 66KA) seems to guarantee SRSH follow-ups on ch. I think I remember seeing this on video. Also looks like it got TC frames. Can you confirm this?
SCH B does SHITLOADS of damage by itself, but it also seems to have its sidehit/ch properties on any hit now. Yet I never saw you try to follow up with a 3B. Is it not guaranteed?
Did you have the chance to test Siegs new 22A (old SC3 66A) on safety? On one video I saw Ivy attempt an Ivy lick after blocking it (and you blocked it), but it looked like it got buffered late. The knockdown also looks as if it could guarantee a 3B afterwards (similar to the second hits of 1AA and SSH AA), it certainly leaves you close enough. Could you confirm that its TC properties are still intact? With how powerful step and the overall damage seems to be right now, shutting down step attempts seems to be one of the most important gameplan aspects and it would be nice to have something to rely on besides agA.
Also, the new 4A (old 2nd hit of 66KA) seems to guarantee SRSH follow-ups on ch. I think I remember seeing this on video. Also looks like it got TC frames. Can you confirm this?
SCH B does SHITLOADS of damage by itself, but it also seems to have its sidehit/ch properties on any hit now. Yet I never saw you try to follow up with a 3B. Is it not guaranteed?
Jink
[10] Knight
*cries* noooooooo, no SSH'A+B? NOOOOOO!! U_U
Schneider-X
[11] Champion
66K : KND in NH
66K BE : 66K + SC4 WSB. Relaunch. After SCH K BE is combo and relaunch again (a
hey, is the stun for the 66K part unique to the BE version that was shown in this video?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfiTaGaTlP4&feature=player_embedded
Pantocrator
[10] Knight
Sacharja
Some people tried to punish 22A without sucess. I guess it's safe, but not sure. I don't think that after there is a combo.
I don't know if the TC frame are intact, but I think there is still someones. If I remember good I evaded some high move. Yes I like a lot this new move too.
About this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LC56yvmtzro#t=1m10s
To be honest I don't know exactly. If it's garanteed, if it's a techtrap, or if he just did the wrong choice. But seems that the SRSH K connect in CH.
3B is combo after SCH B. I don't know why I didn't use it in these match.
Schneider
yes
Some people tried to punish 22A without sucess. I guess it's safe, but not sure. I don't think that after there is a combo.
I don't know if the TC frame are intact, but I think there is still someones. If I remember good I evaded some high move. Yes I like a lot this new move too.
About this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LC56yvmtzro#t=1m10s
To be honest I don't know exactly. If it's garanteed, if it's a techtrap, or if he just did the wrong choice. But seems that the SRSH K connect in CH.
3B is combo after SCH B. I don't know why I didn't use it in these match.
Schneider
yes
Sp1d3r
Demon Beaver
Does the critical edge ring out?
Jink
[10] Knight
To me, this sucks. Not in the demo, I hope they'll be added up in an another version before release, hopefully..
Heaton
A Soul in the Purgatory
They may also have a new SRSH and SSH A+B that they're working on, whether it be a new animation for them or completely new moves. I find it hard to believe they'd just have no A+B command for stances.
Habast
[12] Conqueror
Can't wait to try out the new Siegfried. Gonna be epic.
Also, from what I've seen of his Critical Edge, it looks pretty useless. Do you think that would hamper him at all, or do you think that it doesn't really matter since he can just spend his meter on Brave Edges to make it up?
Also, from what I've seen of his Critical Edge, it looks pretty useless. Do you think that would hamper him at all, or do you think that it doesn't really matter since he can just spend his meter on Brave Edges to make it up?
Heaton
A Soul in the Purgatory
Good design would dictate that if you have a poor Critical Edge, your Brave Edge should make up for it - at least, that's one way of making a character with a bad super not totally handicapped. I'm assuming that's probably the route they'll go, but I'm thinking Siegfried's CE might not be too shabby against a wall or a corner, since it won't push back through the wall. If it stuns or wall splats, you may have combo opportunities - maybe something like
CE ~ 11(B) ~ SCH k(BE) ~ jagA
It may end up being that characters that can combo off of or into their CE are the ones who have the "best" CE, however situational it may be. As his CE appears now, though, it looks like it's only real strength lies in whiff punishment - you can't really use it to pressure, and Soulcalibur doesn't have chip damage.
We'll see. Also, we need to settle on a notation for CE and BE moves, because I feel weird typing them out as of now.
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