Sig vs Mitsu + Frames Question

Thanks everyone! Just tested all that stuff again and it works, thanks for the tips. I had no idea that all that stuff was so unsafe for Mitsu, this will definitely help my game. Especially finally being able to interpret all the frame data stuff correctly.

Just out of curiosity, you can only GI when you could also block correct? Also, I assume that you can block as long as you aren't in negative advantage? Almost like treating blocking as an i0 move. For example:

If Character A was -20 on block then you could hit them with an i20 or faster move for guaranteed damage but an i21 or slower move could be blocked or GIed?

Edit: Actually, now I'm a bit confused. Mitsu 2KB is -20 on block but Sig 1B is i24 so shouldn't Mitsu be able to block? Or is 1B faster at close range or something?
 
IheartRO said:
Thanks everyone! Just tested all that stuff again and it works, thanks for the tips. I had no idea that all that stuff was so unsafe for Mitsu, this will definitely help my game. Especially finally being able to interpret all the frame data stuff correctly.

Just out of curiosity, you can only GI when you could also block correct? Also, I assume that you can block as long as you aren't in negative advantage? Almost like treating blocking as an i0 move. For example:

If Character A was -20 on block then you could hit them with an i20 or faster move for guaranteed damage but an i21 or slower move could be blocked or GIed?

Edit: Actually, now I'm a bit confused. Mitsu 2KB is -20 on block but Sig 1B is i24 so shouldn't Mitsu be able to block? Or is 1B faster at close range or something?
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Due to range the full extension of the attack is i24, so if you are closer the range actually causes it to hit at sooner frames. therefore its i24 from start to finish, but if they are close enough it could be i19 or something like that.
 
IheartRO said:
Also, I assume that you can block as long as you aren't in negative advantage? Almost like treating blocking as an i0 move.
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Yes, you can block as long as you aren't in negative advantage. but technically, blocking takes one frame. (i1, simply)

so if your opponent is at -20 after you block 2KB, and you try to squeeze in a i21 move, he can block your i21 move by holding down G immediately after he sees the B get blocked, if i'm not mistaken.
 
2kB if blocked leads o a 3 K then you can make your own oki game from there (you might be able to get 1B but why risk it for a few more points of damage when 3B will always be free)

like kdz said, you can either block 66BB and get WS B or if you have good timing you can 2 B+K then SCH B 33B.

if you want to try to hit him out of relic I recommend 3A. Now this is if he is just standing in relic not trying to interrupt him from move transitions.

and if the guy likes to spam 66K and 4K then learn to SS alot. 22_88 B would probly be your best bet against this match up.
 
kPc said:
2kB if blocked leads o a 3 K then you can make your own oki game from there (you might be able to get 1B but why risk it for a few more points of damage when 3B will always be free)

like kdz said, you can either block 66BB and get WS B or if you have good timing you can 2 B+K then SCH B 33B.

if you want to try to hit him out of relic I recommend 3A. Now this is if he is just standing in relic not trying to interrupt him from move transitions.

and if the guy likes to spam 66K and 4K then learn to SS alot. 22_88 B would probly be your best bet against this match up.
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If I remember correctly, oki = wake up games correct? If so, what kind of oki can you do after 3, K? The only thing I can think of would be switching into SRSH for the K and B/A+B mixup. Am I missing something?

On 66BB I think I'll stick to WS, seems like the much safer bet.

Thanks for the tips!
 
well sieg's wakeup game sucks, so try your best to read the opponent's reactions after that combo.

They can essentially just lie on the ground and avoid pretty much all your mixups so going into RSH might be a bit of a gamble unless used sparingly (RSH B and RSH K, don't hit ground)

Cancel stance and try wakeup game, cuz at least at neutral you have access to B:4 and 33 stuff.
I have a ? of my own to your other Siegs, have you all ever noticed that there's a JF cancel to SCH K -> neutral? I cannot produce it consistently, but i know it's there, quite useful if you can get it down.
 
hotnikkelz said:
well sieg's wakeup game sucks, so try your best to read the opponent's reactions after that combo.

They can essentially just lie on the ground and avoid pretty much all your mixups so going into RSH might be a bit of a gamble unless used sparingly (RSH B and RSH K, don't hit ground)

Cancel stance and try wakeup game, cuz at least at neutral you have access to B:4 and 33 stuff.
I have a ? of my own to your other Siegs, have you all ever noticed that there's a JF cancel to SCH K -> neutral? I cannot produce it consistently, but i know it's there, quite useful if you can get it down.
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Yun has a CR K:G that cancels the recovery of the kick and doesnt launch the opponent so he can CR B them. The G has to be pressed on hit. Ill try it out.
 
Yes i'm aware of Yun's jf. It's his best move.

I tihnk you misunderstand me though, it's nothing like Yun's. It's not an official jf either, there's no white flash or anything. What DOES happen though is SCH K gets much safer than regular cancels. I jsut can't find the timing, but i know for sure it exists, as i've been able to block pretty fast attacks after.
 
hotnikkelz said:
Yes i'm aware of Yun's jf. It's his best move.

I tihnk you misunderstand me though, it's nothing like Yun's. It's not an official jf either, there's no white flash or anything. What DOES happen though is SCH K gets much safer than regular cancels. I jsut can't find the timing, but i know for sure it exists, as i've been able to block pretty fast attacks after.
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Sry I misunderstood, you did say JF which is why I thought of yun's.

Are you sure it wasnt a fluke, i tried for 10 minutes to get something and nothing out of the ordinary happened. Which buttons did you press, I wouldn't mind getting to the bottom of this. I was trying a
SCH K, G with different timings.

Could it be a simultaneous press?

I do know for fact however, SCH K, B+K yields SCH K,K and SCH kB depending on just slight timing. So its not that.
 
Sieg's wake up game is far from sucky, if you predict the opponent to just lie there then switch into a stance that will hit grounded

EX: 3 K, RSH, (Opponent lies there), SSH A+B, or SCH B, SSH A, or SRH A+B (this move tracks to his left, now it is avoidable but its nice to throw out especially since it does good soul gauge dmg if they get up and block)
 
Thanks again for the tips guys, especially the vid Stryker. Very helpful. You seem to use SSH a lot more than I do, is that a Mitsu specific strategy or is that your normal amount of SSH use?
 
IheartRO said:
Thanks again for the tips guys, especially the vid Stryker. Very helpful. You seem to use SSH a lot more than I do, is that a Mitsu specific strategy or is that your normal amount of SSH use?
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Its a strategy against any character (not very useful against Nightmare or Setsuka)... I use SSH to force the opponent to "guess" : he will hit me low or mid? then if the luck its with me (or I could try to use only SSH B always in a round and change to do SSH K always in the next round)... SSH against Mitsu its very useful cause its a stance character too, also his wakeup its not very good.

Try to force the Mitsus to do 2kB and anticipate the move and guard to punish with 1B always...

-Stryker-
 
i was really pleased when i found this thread and figured i could use it to learn what sieg players hate so i could do it more. i have a somewhat tough time with sieg and the other longish range characters.

i will say that myself and nearly every mitsu player i have ever seen will followup b,b with 2k,b. when mitsu goes into relic stance and is near your as you are getting up, stay down or roll. i am usually looking to charge up the unblockable to kill you with as you get up.

anyways, i hope you have more success against mitsu in the future.
 
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